Jump to content

Radio Control Multihulls


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.6k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

WHY THE FUCK HAVE YOU NOT TESTED THE BOAT IN YEARS YOU RETARDED PIECE OF SHIT?! SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH THIS REPEATING YOURSELF, IN 2 WEEKS YOU WILL HAVE BEEN POSTING THE SAME VIDEO AND 2 IMAGES FO

dude, Ian HATED you.  He, like dozens of other top sailors and designers, complained frequently to mods - including me - about you until it became obvious that Scot wouldn't ban people for being

That is one of the most ridiculous and uninformed statements you could have made!!

Posted Images

Compare and Contrast dL's failure to launch with this video shot over the weekend.

 

Two boats both foiling, with some really well shaped and set up sails - note the profile of the mainsails and the progressive twist in their leeches.

 

Both running different sails, foils, hulls - are boats 5 & 6(?) (or more) - but PMM doesn't bore us witless with claims, counter claims & excuses - just lots of (excellent) results & development - all framed in well shot videos. Proving that you don't need Military/Hollywood budgets to prove what you have achieved.

 

Perth Mini Man has also clearly mastered the art of sailing these skittish wee beasties - which show some genuine pace, unlike anything that is not coming out of Florida.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=14&v=_8lmu54sZ1o

Link to post
Share on other sites

Shit man, in the last week we've built a farking massive foil - an emergency rudder for a Santa Cruz 50 and laid up the cassette today. This in a little garage shop.

 

One would think now that you've actually got the damn thing built you'd want to see it sail.

 

If you have some physical limitations that prevent you from getting out without assistance, no worries, say the word and we'll get some volunteers to help.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't Mr. Lord tell us that he couldn't afford to have a 2nd (smaller) sail for the Trimaran???

 

And, when he GoPro didn't work, couldn't afford to replace it???

 

Yet, somehow he has been able to put together another, complete with rig, sails, and electronics?

 

Think about it!!!

 

Mr. Lord is playing everybody like fools. He is a pathalogical liar, and clearly has Narcistic Personality Disorder (NPD). As such, there is no point to calling him out on his lies, as he will just cover them with more lies. And, if you do corner him with undeniable proof that h is WRONG, he will become angry and attack his accuser. Sound familiar???

 

***R.T.***

Link to post
Share on other sites

nice

 

Compare and Contrast dL's failure to launch with this video shot over the weekend.

 

Two boats both foiling, with some really well shaped and set up sails - note the profile of the mainsails and the progressive twist in their leeches.

 

Both running different sails, foils, hulls - are boats 5 & 6(?) (or more) - but PMM doesn't bore us witless with claims, counter claims & excuses - just lots of (excellent) results & development - all framed in well shot videos. Proving that you don't need Military/Hollywood budgets to prove what you have achieved.

 

Perth Mini Man has also clearly mastered the art of sailing these skittish wee beasties - which show some genuine pace, unlike anything that is not coming out of Florida.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=14&v=_8lmu54sZ1o

Link to post
Share on other sites

From previous page:

 

Ian has posted several videos to the Fire Arrow thread and also fairly detailed comments about the boats.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

And here.........

Link to post
Share on other sites

This video by Perth Mini 40 Man, shows a modified Skate trimaran and a one meter cat with wand controlled main foils (from about half way) :

 

And here-post 1929 http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/high-performance-mpx-foil-self-righting-trimaran-test-model-36058-129.html#post725853

Link to post
Share on other sites

Behold another loRdiSm..........

This is Cut & Pasted from his own writings:

Did you know: MPX = Max Power Experimental (another glimpse into the infantile mechanics that are at work in that brain of his)

 

So by his own hand his Ring of Fire Toilet Seat should be "MPE Ring Burner"

 

Ironic that yet another boat that alludes to Power, Performance, Speed etc. has none of those qualities........

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some further action - light winds and strong gusts - for both the Mini40 and One Metre are here

 

Bent the rudder shafts on both boats in the gusty conditions which made them difficult to steer, and cracked a foil on the Mini40. All good fun! But of repair work to do

 

My normal cameraman (14 year old son) was not available this weekend so I taped the video camera to the transmitter. Apologies for the erratic footage

 

Mini 40 action here

http://youtu.be/Tx5mU76yYII

 

One Metre action, with a good capsize, is here

http://youtu.be/MyJ5hS-eeWc

Link to post
Share on other sites

See this amazes me that you can sail in such blustery conditions, following the Fire Arrow saga I wouldn't have thought it possible. Just goes to show.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some further action - light winds and strong gusts - for both the Mini40 and One Metre are here

 

Bent the rudder shafts on both boats in the gusty conditions which made them difficult to steer, and cracked a foil on the Mini40. All good fun! But of repair work to do

 

My normal cameraman (14 year old son) was not available this weekend so I taped the video camera to the transmitter. Apologies for the erratic footage

 

Mini 40 action here

http://youtu.be/Tx5mU76yYII

 

One Metre action, with a good capsize, is here

http://youtu.be/MyJ5hS-eeWc

 

As an ex mini40 racer, I'm loving the evolution to foils.

 

But I can't understand why a one metre multihull class is in existence, so hard to keep them upright in a blow or get them moving in the light winds. Admittedly the foils seem to make them easier to sail, but still, the mini40 isn't that much bigger and seems so much more controllable.

 

"Bent the rudder shafts on both boats in the gusty conditions which made them difficult to steer..." Yep, the shafts need to be big, surprisingly large loads on the rudder. I ended up with something like 4-5mm 316 SS rod. Loads will be bigger now on foils.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Ncik
You are correct - there is no One Metre Class right now. The one Metres that I am sailing have been designed and built by myself as an experiment to see if this size of boat can produce the same amount of fun as the Min40 class
In 2002 a set of rules was created (don't know who by) for a Multi-One class; these are attached. Curiously the length restriction was one metre but the beam could be 48 inches! - all a bit weird, plus two different max sail areas. For me, the main issue with the Mini40 is transportation. A one-piece trimaran is almost impossible to get inside any normal family car without scraping the lining of the car, so I am particularly interested in seeing if a one metre wide trimaran can foil, and not damage my car whilst in transit to and from the lake! All my Mini40s dismantle, whilst the One Metre tris are one-piece

 

So anyway, this is just me experimenting. I completely agree with you about the Min40 class - I love the boats, as I believe all of us who sail them do. But I suspect their size limits the number of potential owners, which is a real shame as multihulls are just so much more fun than rc monolhulls! And I personally believe that "fun" is what we need more of in radio controlled yachting

 

RgdsMultiOne class.pdf

Ian

Link to post
Share on other sites

The multiONE Rules allowed an oversquare beam to permit rc multihull foilers to have the same or close to the same beam relative to length as Hydroptere, my F3 and Bradfields proposed(at that time) Osprey. On surface piercing foilers the extra beam adds substantial righting moment. On wand controlled foilers, where the foils generate all the RM for the boat, it reduces the loading on the main foils thereby reducing drag. The extra beam adds significantly to performance.

 

===========

Some guys have discussed a 65cm RC multihull class and there are some production boats in that size range. In my opinion, they may be too small for "fun" but some guys think they are perfect.


 

post-30-0-27470800-1435082749.jpg

post-30-0-73038300-1435082776_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Does this thing actually work, or is it the model builder's equivalent of a spiffy rendering from a conceptual art student with no engineering experience?

Link to post
Share on other sites

And how many times since that hippity-hop video was taken has the boat sailed?????

 

That's right, NONE!!!

 

Yes,............ LAWN DECORATION!!!

 

***R.T.***

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why doesn't the cat or the tri have fully battened mains? In a world of drag reduction being king I would have thought that would have been logical, or is that not done in the RC world?

 

I'm amazed how patient Doug is, if I was living next to the water I would have had the boat on the water the second the batterys went in.

 

Is there expected to be a bit of excess drag caused by the twisting motion induced by the leeway coupling on the batfoils? (E.g the leeway that causes the boat to come down on the L foils will make one side go up in this case and the other go down).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not to mention (again....) the ridiculous amount of twist that the mainsail is running. The boom is at 20-30 degrees of centreline - but the headboard is at 90 degrees to the centreline - so 60 degrees or more of twist. It is not blowing dogs off chains in that photo.

 

If the sail area that was under and over trimmed was cut away, you could almost halve the effective sail area being carried (and all the drag that those parts are causing).

 

Where have you ever seen such a poorly set up sail (do not include immediately pre/post launch or retrieval moments - I am talking about sails trimmed in anger or for serious competition)?????? (Photos of cute topless girls on holiday sailing a hotel catamaran are permissible as evidence.)

 

There are too many variables that are working against the aim here - (aim = to resolve improved hydrofoiling - I cannot determine if this for greater VMG or higher top end velocity on a breaod reach - or just earlier flight in lower wind speeds) and that is a whole different discussion

.

Sailing already has too many variables that makes dialing out the "noise" difficult enough - in this case being a RC boat - the observations are made from remote far away locations - so why would you add complexity (and weight, and drag etc etc.) when the upshot is increased "noise" - is the hip hop action because of sail plan falling in and out of its trim/power setting?

 

There is not a steering input or trim adjustment that could be made here to rapidly depower that rig in the event of a gust - lots of course change also required for gybes - not what is required on fast boats - and this is the opposite of the rigs that Perth Mini Man is using in blustery conditions above (successfully I might add).

 

Normal scientific rigour would try to limit testing of new concepts to the smallest number of alterations at a time - so taking a proven platform with a recorded baseline performance behaviour - the appropriate behaviour would be to substitute one change at a time (i.e. new lift foil) and observe the changes brought about.

 

I believe that there is a small group of people in Florida who have a history of experimenting in unstable flight - NASA - and even they have had a few FUBARS in their time - but they don't bolt every bright idea that they might have onto their test platform all at once. They are a lot more methodical - and even so they get out more than once a year........

 

To have everything new and unproven is just muddying the waters - some people love Pea Soup; not me.......

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why doesn't the cat or the tri have fully battened mains? In a world of drag reduction being king I would have thought that would have been logical, or is that not done in the RC world?

 

I'm amazed how patient Doug is, if I was living next to the water I would have had the boat on the water the second the batterys went in.

 

Is there expected to be a bit of excess drag caused by the twisting motion induced by the leeway coupling on the batfoils? (E.g the leeway that causes the boat to come down on the L foils will make one side go up in this case and the other go down).

 

Long ago when I was first experimenting with square top or "modern gaff" rigs ,one of the advantages on models was that full length battens weren't required. So by using a lightweight adjustable gaff at the head you could adjust an upper outhaul and the "peak" tension-more control of the top half of the sail than any other rig I'm familiar with(that has a semi-rectangular planform). I had trouble getting the Fire Arrow rig tensioned properly on the day she first foiled so she was over twisted for the 5mph wind. She has massive power in her vang and I could have gotten it right if I had spent enough time. That day we were pressed for time so rather than bring it back in and work on the sail Dan and I elected to try to get her on foils in the time we had left-which worked out well.

The D4Z rig doesn't need full length battens-so far- but we'll see how the rig works on the water. That main is experimental in that it has a fairly large luff sock instead of a wing mast. I had to use left over stuff to put the rig together so decided to experiment with the sail.

The Fire Arrow main now does have full length battens-mainly to try to smooth out discontinuities caused by the fancy cut.

 

Pictures: all the rc boats I produced had the "Wing Tip" rig that used a small gaff, adjustable upper outhaul and adjustable peak-and on the big tri buoyancy at the head in addition. Worked very well and did not require full battens. The Fire Arrow rig is the most difficult to get right probably because of the rotating wing mast and extra large head:

post-30-0-37522500-1435668502_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-16107200-1435668529_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-18753400-1435668574_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-99782300-1435668662_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-73244300-1435668867_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why doesn't the cat or the tri have fully battened mains? In a world of drag reduction being king I would have thought that would have been logical, or is that not done in the RC world?

 

I'm amazed how patient Doug is, if I was living next to the water I would have had the boat on the water the second the batterys went in.

 

Is there expected to be a bit of excess drag caused by the twisting motion induced by the leeway coupling on the batfoils? (E.g the leeway that causes the boat to come down on the L foils will make one side go up in this case and the other go down).

 

I don't know-there are a lot of unknowns with these batfoils but the potential advantages are great as well. The surface piercing T-foil has automatic altitude control with speed like any surface piercing foil but because of the inclusion of the iFlaps on each tip* and twist over the span it will have the characteristics(theoretically) of a wand controlled foil: high lift at low speed and reduced drag at high speed. In addition,because the foils are canted outboard, at the bottom, 10 degrees, it only takes a 4 degree angle of heel before the windward main foil clears the water. Saves a lot of RC crap necessary to retract the windward foil on an UptiP foil setup. May or may not work-very, very experimental.

*Fully expect to reduce the size of the iFlap with testing-they are probably oversized.

 

PS-I'm not really patient at all-I've been sick for almost two months and my crew has been unavailable due to a family crisis. When it rains, it pours. Soon (?-already several months late) the association here will be putting in a new seawall with steps leading to the water which will provide the first access to the water here. May be able to test here in the right conditions when that is done.

post-30-0-64484100-1435669890_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-00106100-1435669903_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-79655500-1435669944_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting to see how those bat foils go. At least they look good.

You've got to sort out the sails on the fire arrow. There is little to no benefit of having a radial cut sail on a model, there are nowhere near enough loads to need to align the fabric with the load paths of a sail of this size. Therefore you would produce a much better shape from a simple crosscut design. Download a free software called sailcut and have a play yourself. You'll produce much better sails than what you've got.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that the fancy cut on Fire Arrow wasn't necessary but my sailmaker recommended it and Sandy Goodall designed it. The problem with setting the sail was mine, not the boats and ,as I said earlier, the day we took these pictures there wasn't enough time to get it right once we recognized the problem.

You may notice that while we used the same material, we didn't use the same cut on the D4Z main. This material was chosen because both boats sail in nearly 10 knots of apparent wind at the lowest wind speed we'll sail in(5 mph / 4.4 knots).

post-30-0-48322100-1435752700_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

One of the first surface piercing RC foilers to do a couple of foiling gybes in the one video(2014):

Designed by Christophe-

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Concept model of a 12'LOA X 17'wide full size version of Fire Arrow(minus ama foils) :

ezjpsh.jpg

 

vwvq1d.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Back in the 90's I produced several different types of RC sailboat. In my research of the competition and also in looking for fittings, masts etc. I ran into Walicki Boats. I soon found out they were one of the worlds premier builders of Internationally recognized RC classes. His fittings, masts and boats were second to none.

I was sad to learn today that Janusz Walicki died in early June........

 

Tribute to Janus Walicki: https://marbleheadsailing.wordpress.com/

Link to post
Share on other sites

D4Z Foils( Batfoils):

 

 

Just another whacked-out "It's gonna change the world" scale model that doesn't work from the overly fertilized mind of DL.

Link to post
Share on other sites

For you guys who have no idea as to what the Dougster looks like.... here's a snapshot of The Foilmeister in his preferred element, all cozy, comfy and Florida sweaty in his chair at waterside.

 

One look at this shot and I can't help but wonder why Doug has so many excuses as to not being able to complete the testing of his world beater scale model foiling trimaran. Heck, it's been more than a year now since he announced to the planet that his machine could do what he said it could (forget that there still isn't any proof that it has any more capacity for stable, predictable foiling than his folding metal chair in the pic)

 

Come on, Doug.... get off that house-bound sofa with the remote control for the TV and get your fanny out to the water's edge where you can actually sort the problems and finally realize the conclusion of the project.

 

MPX_Fire_Arrow_First_Full_Flying_Foiling

Link to post
Share on other sites

Over on the r/c groups site, Dougie has called me a "zero" for questioning his plans and talents. To make it up to him I have offered the first $100 to buy him a ticket to San Diego Race Week in August the largest gathering of r/c sailing in the U.S.(and the home of our most noble Ed) to demonstrate his boats. Anyone else want to kick in? Also anyone else want to guess what Doug's excuse for not attending will be?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not interested,Zero. The AC 4.8RC probably wouldn't be ready to demonstrate to an esteemed group of sailors for 6 months to a year-much testing and refining to do.

Why don't you demonstrate one of your foiling multihulls?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Over on the r/c groups site, Dougie has called me a "zero" for questioning his plans and talents. To make it up to him I have offered the first $100 to buy him a ticket to San Diego Race Week in August the largest gathering of r/c sailing in the U.S.(and the home of our most noble Ed) to demonstrate his boats. Anyone else want to kick in? Also anyone else want to guess what Doug's excuse for not attending will be?

1. I'll match your $100.00 and add an additional $100.00 on top of that.

 

2. Take your pick:

-I'm busy that week

-I'll be sick that week

-Coach Dan is unavailable that week

-Coach Dan will be sick that week

-Somebody in Florida will be sick that week

-I'm afraid to fly

-My GoPro doesn't work to document the trip

-There may be too much wind

-There may not be enough wind

-There may be waves on the water

-The FirEarrow is far too advanced for such a mundane event

-I am an Internet legend, so there is no reason to attend in person

-A dog ate my homework

 

One thing is for sure...........Mr. Lord will not attend, no matter how much money is offered!

 

Mr. Doug Lord is a Pathalogical Liar and a Fraud. He is mentally ill, and clearly suffers from Narcistic Personality Disorder!!!

 

If you don't believe me, go read the postings on BD where, just a few short years ago, he claims to have traded back for the aeroskiff hull, and is turning it into the prototype Trapwing Foiler.

 

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/aeroskiff-16-a-35741.html

 

"This boat was quite a learning experience for me and will again sail(and foil) in its experimental "Trapwing" prototype mode-with a modified bow and LOA increased to a bit over 18'. A modified foiler version will have sliding bench seats, buoyancy pods, manual AND wand altitude control, the same rig, raised cross arms, a modified and extended bow and the same foils.The boat will be used from now on as an experimental platform......."

 

 

***R.T.***

Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone else spotted the uncanny similarity of the number of lifting surfaces, poor performance and strikingly similar paint scheme between the Red Baron's Fokker DR1 Triplane and a certain Floridian D4Z?

 

WW1 planes did about 60mph and broke up at around a Ton - the sailing equivalent of about 28 knots.......

(not that loooPy's creations would ever get that fast)

The planes at the time were all about getting sufficient lift from a package that were severely horsepower limited - enough to carry pilot, guns, camera's and Flour Bombs. I know they were the Concorde of their day - but still........

 

In fact even the name D4Z and DR1 are spookily similar.......

 

douG are you a Hun sympathiser?????? We the people demand to know.

 

(As to crowd funding dL's trip to San Diego - can I suggest a contingency be set aside to cover for any mal practice suits brought about from the innocent passengers and crew that would be forced to deal with the couch poTatoe's funk, scintillating conversation and attitude on a cross country flight........ My own fear of inadvertently coming across such passenger as some sort of karmic retribution, precludes me from contributing, I just couldn't live with myself knowing I had foisted it upon the wider public.)

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-108539-0-06649900-1436154216_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Seeing the picture of Doug above, I now totally understand the reason for all his delays-- he is a total babe magnet. That t- shirt alone with its front sweat ( hopefully) stain must draw women like a dog in heat. Doug, with such a never ending social life, no wonder you can never find the time to actually sail....rock on!

Link to post
Share on other sites

from the AC thread and rc groups:

A bit more on the current rules. The number one consideration is that these boats are NOT intended to be scale models of the America's Cup 48. The emphasis is to allow development of a performance oriented FOILING RC Cat that fits under very loose rules. The key is FOILING-and the development of a simple, practical foiling system is the main priority of initial development. Later, improvements in performance will be the priority, but right now it is the development of a relatively simple, practical foiling system that meets the criteria established in the rules for performance . See those criteria highlighted in red in the copy of the rules below:

Quote


Since the rules were just so dramatically changed for the full size boats AND since two of us have already built boats(as AC 55's from the previous thread) I wanted to come up with basic Rules that would be as close to the new rules as possible while allowing the two completed boats to be immediately legal. John Xman suggested length and beam done to a 1/10th scale. That worked well allowing the two completed boats to closely fit while maintaining the proportions of the full size boats.
AC 4.8RC:
Length: 4.8'=57.625" (rounded)
Beam: 3.33'=40" (rounded)(corrected 5/13/15-see post 66)
Tentative rules based on my D4Z:
--movable ballast system legal and may exceed maximum beam-no restrictions,
-- foils may extend outside the maximum beam.
--rudders may be transom hung
--SA up to 1900sq"
--no channel restrictions
--no foil type restrictions
--no rig restrictions
===================
Directly scaled Model length is 1/10th fullsize, SA is 1/100 fullsize, weight is 1/1000th fullsize, RM is1/10000th fullsize.
NOTE: sailarea, weight and RM of the model cannot be equal to the directly scaled values from fullsize.
===================
As far as I'm concerned that is the Basic set of rules until more boats are built and an excellent foiling system or systems are developed and proven.
-No boat built under these basic rules may later be disqualified or modified in any way by later rule changes.
My primary direction now will be to complete and foil my boat with three different foiling systems as well as experiment with the Trapeze Power Ballast System. I would imagine Jim in Australia will be doing similar development .
The idea and absolute requirement for a successful RC Americas Cup foiling cat is:
1-that it foils in light air,
2-that it foils upwind,
3-that it routinely gybes on foils,
4-that it is capable of sailing a triangular or windward/leeward course faster than any comparable size monohull.

These will be tough requirements to meet but are essential for future growth of the class.
The D4Z below is one of the first two AC 4.8RC cats and is nearly complete and will be under constant development. Jim in Australia's prototype is under development but is sailing and has foiled for short bursts.
====
Scratchy 101 had a good idea and that was to not "bury" the original AC 62 thread because he thought it had a lot of good info. So here is a link to the end of that thread for those who want to check it out:
http://www.rcgroups.....180752&page=48 opens on last page of old thread
Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, Tom, that sweaty t-shirt look was, in fact, an airbrushed piece of body art that Doug cooked-up for the ladies. The guys who painted his Firearrow had him stand in the center of the paint booth with his arms up while he turned, slowly, on a huge, carbonated lazy susan to get the wrap-around thing just right.

 

 

 

180-degree-two-grade-adjustable-lazy-sus

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fire Arrow 2015: mast aft experiment, iFlap removed from port ama foil, endplates on mainfoil flap, reefed rig heavy air set up, reduced AOI on ama foils (+6 to +3 degrees)

k0k2ac.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is how Queen Dougie likes his ladies; High and Dry as fetish objects.

 

They can't make trouble, or complain when they are strapped down like this. Taking them out on a real date only causes more problems.

Link to post
Share on other sites

what??? how many more configurations are you going to -not- test??!!

by experiment you mean contemplating or sailing?

Doug I don`t understand how you can resist sailing those thingS - because the cat is going exactly the same path

if I lived in Fl, I`d break into the house, take the boat from its display stand, flip on the switches and throw it into the water

 

I have a suggestion for you though. The arrows. Doug, those arrows look old, like maybe from the 40´s? The futuristic look of the model merit some flashy, modern, sweeped, even from outer space arrows. And delete those white patches, make the arrows themselves white. I think it´s important to correct that, before any sailing takes place. The arrows are important.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fire Arrow 2015: mast aft experiment, iFlap removed from port ama foil, endplates on mainfoil flap, reefed rig heavy air set up, reduced AOI on ama foils (+6 to +3 degrees),full battens, radio/winch check:



2s1vyu8.jpg


Link to post
Share on other sites

doug, those sails look terrible and why have that stupid thing at the top of rig which just adds extra weight right where it shouldn't be and probably detracts from the efficiency of the mainsail. Given the hours you spend posting claims of revolutionary world beating developments on the various forums wouldn't you be better off spending that time actually just sailing the thing, Every second doesn't have to be recorded, it's actual time on the water that counts. Get it on the water and get the technique sorted then get the cameras rolling.

Even better, just say nothing, post nothing and come back to us with evidence it actually works - or not.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. The "stupid thing at the top of the rig" is anti-turtle buoyancy and one of the lowest drag ways to do it. I think it probably increases the efficiency of the rig. Unfortunately, this boat requires two people and two vehicles to get it to the water so I'm dependent on help to be able to sail. And I disagree where you say "..every second doesn't have to be recorded"-I think it is essential for learning about how the boat is actually performing to have video of 100% of it's time on the water. I've already come to "you" with evidence the boat actually works-it foiled on the 4th test and foiled well-and in very light air-a great begining. Now, we refine it and get more video........

 

20gi0sg.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Latest Doug Lord excuse--"I need two people and two vehicles or else I can't sail". Does it not surprise anyone that Dougie doesn't know one other person who is willing to help. i guess his social skills in the real world match his on the web.

 

I expect that the next excuse will be "I'm not allowed out of the facility unsupervised."

 

BTW the addition of the skull and crossbones are a particularly nice touch. How many months of testing needed to get them perfect?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fire Arrow 2015: mast aft experiment, iFlap removed from port ama foil, endplates on mainfoil flap, reefed rig heavy air set up, reduced AOI on ama foils (+6 to +3 degrees)

k0k2ac.jpg

I guess its just too much trouble, to drop it in the water, here in the background, and sit in one of those lawn chairs on the dock, and just go sailing??? :huh:

Link to post
Share on other sites

TWO people and TWO vehicles to get it to the water - REALLY?? You have got to be joking with this excuse.

Just how big is it again?

Or is the second vehicle for the security personnel to hold back the admiring hordes and A-Cup designer spies.

Link to post
Share on other sites

D4Z -final set-up before first sailing. Tested Trapeze Power Ballast System final time. Video coming.

 

2dlq2hh.jpg

 

 

2hwn33s.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wanted to practice taking video-and as you can see I need practice. Probably impossible to take video and sail this thing with the Trapeze Ballast system. I may be able to rig a tripod and get some glimpses of the boat under sail if Dan isn't available.This boat can be easily transported in my little car and launching is no problem. Both are problems with the Fire Arrow......

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Wanted to practice taking video-and as you can see I need practice. Probably impossible to take video and sail this thing with the Trapeze Ballast system. I may be able to rig a tripod and get some glimpses of the boat under sail if Dan isn't available.This boat can be easily transported in my little car and launching is no problem. Both are problems with the Fire Arrow......

 

Credit where its due. That is really cool, well done.

 

Now throw it in the fucking water.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Second attempt at testing the D4Z Friday July 17th. First attempt today was cancelled because the wind was too strong for a first sail. My "crew" will take video. The Wind Guru forecast does not look good. The only time open is 7:30 am to beat the heat at our no shade site.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Volunteer soldiers go into combat in the Middle East in outrageous heat, dust and blowing sand, wearing all sorts of equipment, weapons and ammunition..... but lard-ass Dougie has to opt for the creampuffery of using the temperature as an excuse to NOT sail a freaking model boat.

 

Douglas... I think it's time you inserted a fresh tampon and got on with something approximating life as an adult human being. You are such a pathetic wussy.

 

Cocoa Beach, FL
Tuesday 1:00 PM
Sunny
sunny.png
91
°F | °C
Precipitation: 37%
Humidity: 57%
Wind: 14 mph

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Volunteer soldiers go into combat in the Middle East in outrageous heat, dust and blowing sand, wearing all sorts of equipment, weapons and ammunition..... but lard-ass Dougie has to opt for the creampuffery of using the temperature as an excuse to NOT sail a freaking model boat.

 

Douglas... I think it's time you inserted a fresh tampon and got on with something approximating life as an adult human being. You are such a pathetic wussy.

 

Cocoa Beach, FL
Tuesday 1:00 PM
Sunny
sunny.png
91
°F | °C
Precipitation: 37%
Humidity: 57%
Wind: 14 mph

 

:lol::lol::lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites

FFS, Doug. Eat some cement and harden up. There are times here in Sydney when it doesn't fall below that temperature for weeks at a time, and nobody would make such a pathetic excuse. you constantly post vieos from Perth, where it is hotter and windier yet it doesn't stop them, even for a first sail. If you are worried about your boat not being able to handle 14mph, you haven't built it properly.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Simon, I have never test sailed an experimental RC design in over 5 knots of wind for the first sail and I never will. Tomorrow is not looking good.

Simon, many of the comments here have been by people who have never designed and built an experimental RC sailboat-much less a foiler with movable ballast -from scratch. Are you one of those?! I find it amusing how people who have never,ever done it are so full of...... authoritative advice.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, it's true I've never built a foiling r/c multihull. I've also never rammed a red hot poker up my ass but I sure am capable of knowing that would be a stupid idea... Just sayin'

 

Doug Lord's latest excuse for not sailing--"Weasels are nesting in my beard!"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Simon, I have never test sailed an experimental RC design in over 5 knots of wind for the first sail and I never will. Tomorrow is not looking good.

Simon, many of the comments here have been by people who have never designed and built an experimental RC sailboat-much less a foiler with movable ballast -from scratch. Are you one of those?! I find it amusing how people who have never,ever done it are so full of...... authoritative advice.

I have built r/c boats and would never hesitate to sail one for the first time in significantly more than 5 knots. I have also been watching video of other foiling r/c cats on their first sails and it seems you are the only one who has so little faith in their boat that need to wait until there is next to no wind. Now, if you are telling us that your boat is only designed for light winds, that might make sense, but then you will look even more ridiculous because it would simply be another excuse. If the boat is designed to be sailed in proper wind, then there is no excuse. 5 knots for a boat designed to be sailed in, say, 15-18 knots simply proves nothing because the loads are a fraction of what it is designed to take.

 

Of course, if you have no confidence in your design and your ability to build it properly........

Link to post
Share on other sites

Such nonsense........So you've built rc sailboats-did they foil? Did they use movable ballast? Come on Simon show the pictures-pictures or it didn't happen-isn't that the way the SA bullshit goes?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The nonsense, Doogly, is that you offer up such incoherent babble as a litany of reasons as to why the object(s) in question can not be tested. Frankly, it's well beyond hilarious now and as my take on the process, you have jumped completely off the rails in your ability to comprehend and then act upon reality.

 

Too much wind, not enough wind, too far away, water too deep, water too shallow, heat too high, car not big enough, butt buddy camera operator not available, camera doesn't work after several years of not using it, got dreadfully sick and can't move my Jabba the Hutt butt out the door, I made the boat too complex to be able to sail it properly, it's too big for my car to transport even though I designed it and I have had the car for a long time and know, (or should know) how big of an item it can carry.

 

The cartoon storyboard just keeps vomiting out of your overwrought psyche and I have to tell you, bud.... this thing has long passed its Use By date and is now stale as hell.

 

If there's any nonsense here, it is primarily bubbling out of your head.... We're just watching the catastrophe from a safe distance, wondering just when you will self-destruct.

 

.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Such nonsense........So you've built rc sailboats-did they foil? Did they use movable ballast? Come on Simon show the pictures-pictures or it didn't happen-isn't that the way the SA bullshit goes?

Doug stop typing and go sailing!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Give the guy a break - it takes takes real guts to put something on the water, particularly when water's so wet and full of germs. It's much better just to look at a model on a stand with the sea in the background because you can then use your imagination to test it without the risk of anything going wrong. If you're really lucky/patient, you die of old age and never know if your design would have been successful or not, so you can die happy while still believing in it and keeping open the possibility that people will look back on you as a legend. Doug is very sensibly playing it safe.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You've joined the MOB-you should be proud of yourself, David.

======================================

Testing

-----

Testing is obviously something very few people have a clue about. The D4Z is an extremely unigue RC cat utilizing a Trapeze Power Ballast System that moves variable amounts of lead ballast fore and aft and side to side very quickly. It is also a foiler utilizing very experimental surface piercing T-foils with iFlaps (Batfoils) that should work like a wand controlled foil from low speed to high speed with a major difference-foil area-and drag-automatically reduce as the boat goes faster.

The foils are designed to allow the boat to foil in a 5MPH(4.34knot) breeze. The point is to develop a relatively simple foil system anyone can use to get an RC cat in the air. There are advantages and disadvantages which is the reason for testing. Without a doubt the most important design goal is to fly in light air-5mph- because that represents a major accomplishment for the design and helps to open up the foiling experience to very low wind speeds allowing foiling in conditions many thought impossible. It means more time in the air, a greater likelihood of getting racing off on a scheduled date,a wider selection of venues, more fun etc.It is the single most important design goal for the D4Z and the new Batfoils.

It is simply ridiculous to test a boat like this FIRST in any other condition because the foil system has to be proven to work before the boat is subjected to conditions where a capsize could occur simply because the foils weren't properly set-up.

The Trapeze Power Ballast System ,along with the Batfoils,are totally unique to this boat but the trapeze system was first designed and developed by me over 20 years ago and used on several boats. I had many hours on the system back then and it was a blast to sail with. But it has never been used on a catamaran foiler and the skipper needs to get some practice with system before it is used in anything approaching maximum conditions. In fact the max windspeed with this big rig is 8-9 knots before it would have to be reefed.

Again, the most important area of testing for the D4Z is in light air-it's relatively easy to foil when the wind is blowing hard but it's a whole' nother deal to develop an excellent foil system for very light air.

Tomorrow is off-try again next Tuesday and Thursday.

 

post-30-0-87557900-1437080884_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-39771200-1437080898_thumb.jpg

post-30-0-92640400-1437080937_thumb.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Doug,

 

I'm not joining any mob - I'm just trying to find ways to encourage you to get one or other of these models on the water - preferably Fire Arrow which is a much more interesting design than D4Z. I think you have a phobia about putting it on the water which you find hard to overcome, because you clearly have genuine ability to build cutting-edge things and you aren't lacking in get-up-and-go: something else is holding you back, and that's a shame. D4Z's foils look like shallow V-foils to me and I can't get excited about them because the performance difference won't be great. More interesting is the moving ballast, but even if the motors are able to move it quickly, I doubt that human reactions can tell it which way to move quickly enough to keep the model upright. It's worth testing that, of course, but if the weather doesn't suit, just take Fire Arrow out for a spin instead - that's the one I want to see being made full size, and having seen the dimensions of it, it's not something that should be ruinously expensive to build. If you can show people how the model actually performs in a reasonable range of weather conditions going both upwind and downwind, you might find that you can generate the funding you need to make the full size version a reality. I think it could be a particularly good boat for disabled sailors and would make a fine paralympic class - every other foiler is going to tip over from time to time while Fire Arrow stays upright. Most of all though, I'd like to see you flying the finished thing and giving a nice big one-finger gesture to all your detractors. I still think it could happen, but I worry that time might run out for you. I've just been hit by a medical problem which may take me out soon, and so I understand just how much life is a race. Act as if this is the last year of your life and get Fire Arrow as far along as you can, then do the same thing next year if you get the chance, and keep doing the same thing again after that for as long as your luck holds out. Showing everyone that your model of Fire Arrow really works well all the time should be your main priority, because that will ensure that the project doesn't die. And if it doesn't work yet, showing people what it currently does in a wide range of conditions will lead to an exchange of ideas which may help you to fix the problems. As it stands, it looks as if you aren't showing Fire Arrow in action because it only works occasionally, and if anything happens to you, no one else will be keen to touch a similar design again.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thoughtful analysis, Coop, but my bet is that The Dougster is going to blow you off like he has every single other, well-meaning person who has gone to bat for him and offered a mountain of support and encouragement. I mean it. After ten plus years of watching this joker do his sit-down/stand-up routine, not one thing in the performance has changed save for the shape of the thing he swears will set the world on fire. Everything else is the same.... as if it has been phoned-in.

 

All I can say, bud, is.... don't expect Doug to produce anything like a moment of design or execution clarity. You touched on it briefly with your, "...something else is holding you back, and that's a shame..." comment.

 

Indeed, something else IS, in fact, holding Doug back from the stardom his psyche supposes is his for the taking. When I first got into this game, a designer once told me, "Ideas are cheap. Everyone has at least one floating around in their head. The hard part.... and it's the part where most folks fall on their faces, is making it work, sticking with it when it doesn't and having the grace to walk away when it isn't ever going to come to completion."

 

Doug's Fire Arrow, in my estimation, is burdened with too many whiz-bang bits of gadgetry to ever get out of its own way in that fashion that any aficionado of foiling has come to expect. It was doomed from the start because that's how Doug does things. He's not content to create simple working machines that can be built upon over time with well-reasoned mods. Nope.... Doug wants LeMans Porsche level fulfillment from the outset and he does not have the technical and design aesthetic chops necessary to be able to do it. Many have tried to nudge him into a simpler, smaller ambition package, but Doug ignores the well-reasoned and experiential based input he has gotten in favor of a wobbly nuclear ego that has no substance to support its hyperbole.

 

Doug could live for another ten years and all he will accomplish is the same unfortunate stuff you have witnessed over the last four years. He's programmed to fail and there's nothing he can, or will, do about it.

 

Truly, it makes me sad and I wish him the best.

 

.

Link to post
Share on other sites
For anyone using an RMG switch:

I had the radio box sealed with super waterproof tape with the LiFe battery inside and hooked up to the RMG switch with the switch off. When we couldn't go earlier in the week I thought I'd leave the battery in, but that wasn't a good idea.

Because of the electronics that are part of the switch it dawned on me that there might be some current draw even with the switch off. I e-mailed Rob Guyatt and he said that was the case so one shouldn't leave the battery hooked up for more than overnight- 2 or three days maximum.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Such nonsense........So you've built rc sailboats-did they foil? Did they use movable ballast? Come on Simon show the pictures-pictures or it didn't happen-isn't that the way the SA bullshit goes?

I am happy to post pictures of my rc boats sailing, just as i have been of me foiling, but here is the deal. You post pictures of your aeroskiff disaster foiling and I will post my rc boat sailing. But there is a difference between the 2 situations. I have sailed my own rc boat that I built (I even molded the hull myself) while we all know the truth about the aeroskiff. ;)

 

As for your bullshit post above, how dare you include pictures of your heap of shit with real boats. You really are the most pitiful piece of work on any forum I have ever met.

Link to post
Share on other sites