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@keith  thanks.  That is a great share.  What I see in that vid is smart thinking with pivoting boards that are manually adjustable for pitch.  The wind is relatively steady so that there isn’t as much of a challenge to the dynamics of the rig and the typical “pop and crash” that we see when there are fixed lifting foils and not enough depowereing in the rig.

my thesis is that if you have Bradfield foils or the type that we’re on the hobie trifoiler, or the ac45 foils (all of which are a bitch to set up correctly) you get the stability of the downward pull of the windward foil.  That still isn’t enough because a gust is scaled up- so a 5 kph velocity change is devastating unless your rig can deposed through all that and keep its driving force low.   As per the difference between the tens rig and the others, or the work of Beth Waite in the skiffs.

thanks for sharing Keith

 

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WHY THE FUCK HAVE YOU NOT TESTED THE BOAT IN YEARS YOU RETARDED PIECE OF SHIT?! SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH THIS REPEATING YOURSELF, IN 2 WEEKS YOU WILL HAVE BEEN POSTING THE SAME VIDEO AND 2 IMAGES FO

That is one of the most ridiculous and uninformed statements you could have made!!

dude, Ian HATED you.  He, like dozens of other top sailors and designers, complained frequently to mods - including me - about you until it became obvious that Scot wouldn't ban people for being

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1 hour ago, Loose Cannon said:

Hey Doug, just so you know, this is why you are a pariah.  When you choose to make an unsubstantiated statement like that at one of the few people on the planet that still held a modicum of credibility for your divergent thinking - you just burn every last bridge to reality.    A normal person would challenge the state,ent with proof, evidence, a link to a video - in short what I have been asking for whenever I come into this thread.  Instead you just shout out like some homeless man outside the train station.

sod off you wanker.  You are not a noble mad scientist.  You are just barking and unsubstantiated.   Loose Cannon out....

 

I have studied and researched rc foilers for over 30 years as well as  designing and building them. Your statement was so off the wall, so absurd and so baseless it deserved that comment!! You think you can just spew bullshit and then get offended when your careless comment is called out?! Forget it......

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1 hour ago, Loose Cannon said:

@keith  thanks.  That is a great share.  What I see in that vid is smart thinkin g with pivoting boards that are manually adjustable for pitch.  The wind is relatively steady so that there isn’t as much of a challenge to the dynamics of the rig and the typical “pop and crash” that we see when there are fixed lifting foils and not enough depowereing in the rig.

my thesis is that if you have Bradfield foils or the type that we’re on the hobie trifoiler, or the ac45 foils (all of which are a bitch to set up correctly) you get the stability of the downward pull of the windward foil.  That still isn’t enough because a gust is scaled up- so a 5 kph velocity change is devastating unless your rig can deposed through all that and keep its driving force low.   As per the difference between the tens rig and the others, or the work of Beth Waite in the skiffs.

thanks for sharing Keith

 

All rc foilers have to be able to manually adjust the angle of incidence of the foil for setup. Pitch is a function of the relationship between the rudder t-foil and the main foil(s). On a Bradfield foiler including the F3 and Fire Arrow the rudder foil is set to zero degrees AOI relative to the static waterline* and the main foils to +2.5 degrees**. It is that setting and the nature of a trailing rudder t-foil that controls pitch.

That is not true of the F3 and Fire Arrow where the set up is very simple and straightforward and usually doesn't need adjustment after the first set up regardless of conditions. 

If you're referring to UptiP foils here it depends on the design: the UptiP ama foils on Fire Arrow have never needed adjustment after the initial setup, which, again was simple and straight forward though the very first time on Fire Arrow it took longer than a Bradfield foiler because I had never sailed with an uptip foil before.The fact that the foil is designed with washin(not washout) makes it suitable for any condition w/o further adjustment. And if the boat were produced now, it would be a piece of cake to set them up. For racing an rc boat ,UptiP foils might benefit from a manually adjusted flap on the horizontal portion of the foil which could be tailored for specific conditions to reduce drag.

*which is parallel to the flight waterline

** with flap at neutral

pix by DL-washin(not washout)  :

MPX i-flap-frnt view port foil --Twist (1).jpg

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4 hours ago, Doug Lord said:

I have studied and researched rc foilers for over 30 years as well as  designing and building them. Your statement was so off the wall, so absurd and so baseless it deserved that comment!! You think you can just spew bullshit and then get offended when your careless comment is called out?! Forget it......

30 years of experience and you still can't make something that successfully foils for any meaningful period of time..? 

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On 12/11/2017 at 3:00 AM, Doug Lord said:

I have studied and researched rc foilers for over 30 years as well as  designing and building them. Your statement was so off the wall, so absurd and so baseless it deserved that comment!! You think you can just spew bullshit and then get offended when your careless comment is called out?! Forget it......

 

22 hours ago, ASP said:

30 years of experience and you still can't make something that successfully foils for any meaningful period of time..? 

Here is the heart of the problem. Doug thinks successful foiling and proof of stable flight can be achieved in 15 seconds, or less. Everybody else considers that to be able to prove foils work, you need o be able to show them working for a significant distance and to be able to demonstrate they maintain flight in changeable conditions as well as in a range of different conditions.

On 12/11/2017 at 3:00 AM, Doug Lord said:

You think you can just spew bullshit and then get offended when your careless comment is called out?!

More verbal abuse from Doug. He gets upset if anybody posts anything he thinks attacks him, yet he is always the first to become abusive. 

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I'm sorry who?

All I see is content that I have not blocked and it is all really good shared videos, descriptions and questions about how to move R/C sailing forward...

I am really interested in the topic as I have a great set of old plans for an design by Nigel Irens and Sam Bradfield that I saw as a prototype in hawaii, but that I want to modify to the Mini40/Formula48 box so that it can be improved under the crucible of racing and insight from other racers.

Look forward to learning more and making that happen.

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On 09/12/2017 at 6:47 AM, Doug Lord said:

Fire Arrow is an EXACT SCALE MODEL of a 19.5' sport trimaran. In the videos, it is sailing with the equivalent weight of three 180lb crew and 80lb of gear. It was never designed to be a race boat but even so in testing it did 2 times wind speed in very difficult conditions for a 21lb. scale model-very light air and out sized waves . And it could have kept on foiling all day if land and the radio range weren't problems-the foil system worked 100% perfectly on that last day of testing.

The foil system worked perfectly but the rudder did not-part due to a radio problem but mostly due to the skippers inexperience with the boat-for instance, when foiling well on port tack I tacked when I probably could have pulled off a foiling gybe. Several times in the 7 minute version of the video the boat wanted to fly upwind and did for a couple seconds. The big fat head main(with adjustable upper outhaul) was a bitch to get trimmed right. There's no doubt in my mind that that thing will foil upwind and be able to complete a foiling gybe-likely one right after the other in stronger wind. It breaks my heart that I wasn't able to continue testing but dems da breaks.I know what she can do and she is a remarkable boat as will be the fullsize WOLF! The know-nothing, uninformed jackasses that diss the boat, the concept and me are simply classic examples of fools.

The fact that three(and probably 4 with Macif when she gets home) multimillion dollar programs are using the same basic system Fire Arrow used first is nothing but astonishing and very rewarding to see! Fuck the fools and idiots-the Fire Arrow Foil System on a small boat like WOLF-whether I do it or someone else does will provide the coolest small multihull foiler there ever has been! Hope its me or at least that I get to see and sail it.....

 

 

 

 

On 09/12/2017 at 9:14 AM, Doug Lord said:

Nothing wrong with the sail jorge-designed by one of the best sail designers in the world and built by a great sailmaker....

I don't have to "prove everyone how wrong they are"-that's already been done by Maserati, Gitana and Bank Populaire and by their own ignorant, uninformed half-ass comments!

 

WHY THE FUCK HAVE YOU NOT TESTED THE BOAT IN YEARS YOU RETARDED PIECE OF SHIT?!

SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH THIS REPEATING YOURSELF, IN 2 WEEKS YOU WILL HAVE BEEN POSTING THE SAME VIDEO AND 2 IMAGES FOR 5 FUCKING YEARS.

SERIOUSLY, AND I DO NOT CARE HOW OFFENSIVE THIS IS ABOUT TO SOUND. SORRY TO ALL THE OTHER READERS.

BUT I HAVEN'T BEEN ONLINE IN OVER A WEEK AS I FINISHED AND LAUNCHED MY NEW BOAT, AND RETURNED NOW TO HEAR ONE OF THE PEOPLE I HAVE RESPECTED THE MOST IN MY LIFE PASSED AWAY. AND ALL I CAN THINK IS WHY THE FUCK WOULD DID HE HAVE TO BE TAKEN FROM US AND NOT YOU. HE WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST PEOPLE IN THE HISTORY OF SAILING, YOU ARE AN ANNOYING PIECE OF SHIT, WHO IS UNANIMOUSLY, AROUND THE ENTIRE WORLD OF SAILING IS HATED THROUGH AND THROUGH.

Sorry for carrying on everyone else, I'm little bit heart broken to no longer have Ian Farrier with us, from meeting the bloke years ago and having nothing but a pleasurable encounter with the man who designed the best boat we ever owned by far . (That coupled with about 100 hours in the workshop this week in 40+ degree Celsius heat).

Doug Lord, take note of peoples reactions to the sadness of the passing of Ian on here he was a true visionary who changed the face of sailing forever, and please remember that we will celebrate the day you stop posting. Not mourn you. I don't care if you insult me here, I don't care if anyone says what I said was too far, but the only contribution you have to sailing, is lessening the experience of reading and discussing sailing related content online.

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23 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

 

Here is the heart of the problem. Doug thinks successful foiling and proof of stable flight can be achieved in 15 seconds, or less. Everybody else considers that to be able to prove foils work, you need o be able to show them working for a significant distance and to be able to demonstrate they maintain flight in changeable conditions as well as in a range of different conditions.

More verbal abuse from Doug. He gets upset if anybody posts anything he thinks attacks him, yet he is always the first to become abusive. 

Yikes, Doug Lord sounds an awful lot like Donald Trump

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On 12-12-2017 at 6:27 AM, darth reapius said:

 

WHY THE FUCK HAVE YOU NOT TESTED THE BOAT IN YEARS YOU RETARDED PIECE OF SHIT?!

SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH THIS REPEATING YOURSELF, IN 2 WEEKS YOU WILL HAVE BEEN POSTING THE SAME VIDEO AND 2 IMAGES FOR 5 FUCKING YEARS.

SERIOUSLY, AND I DO NOT CARE HOW OFFENSIVE THIS IS ABOUT TO SOUND. SORRY TO ALL THE OTHER READERS.

BUT I HAVEN'T BEEN ONLINE IN OVER A WEEK AS I FINISHED AND LAUNCHED MY NEW BOAT, AND RETURNED NOW TO HEAR ONE OF THE PEOPLE I HAVE RESPECTED THE MOST IN MY LIFE PASSED AWAY. AND ALL I CAN THINK IS WHY THE FUCK WOULD DID HE HAVE TO BE TAKEN FROM US AND NOT YOU. HE WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST PEOPLE IN THE HISTORY OF SAILING, YOU ARE AN ANNOYING PIECE OF SHIT, WHO IS UNANIMOUSLY, AROUND THE ENTIRE WORLD OF SAILING IS HATED THROUGH AND THROUGH.

Sorry for carrying on everyone else, I'm little bit heart broken to no longer have Ian Farrier with us, from meeting the bloke years ago and having nothing but a pleasurable encounter with the man who designed the best boat we ever owned by far . (That coupled with about 100 hours in the workshop this week in 40+ degree Celsius heat).

Doug Lord, take note of peoples reactions to the sadness of the passing of Ian on here he was a true visionary who changed the face of sailing forever, and please remember that we will celebrate the day you stop posting. Not mourn you. I don't care if you insult me here, I don't care if anyone says what I said was too far, but the only contribution you have to sailing, is lessening the experience of reading and discussing sailing related content online.

Darth, I agree on you

+1

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On 12/12/2017 at 12:27 AM, darth reapius said:

 

WHY THE FUCK HAVE YOU NOT TESTED THE BOAT IN YEARS YOU RETARDED PIECE OF SHIT?!

SHUT THE FUCK UP WITH THIS REPEATING YOURSELF, IN 2 WEEKS YOU WILL HAVE BEEN POSTING THE SAME VIDEO AND 2 IMAGES FOR 5 FUCKING YEARS.

SERIOUSLY, AND I DO NOT CARE HOW OFFENSIVE THIS IS ABOUT TO SOUND. SORRY TO ALL THE OTHER READERS.

BUT I HAVEN'T BEEN ONLINE IN OVER A WEEK AS I FINISHED AND LAUNCHED MY NEW BOAT, AND RETURNED NOW TO HEAR ONE OF THE PEOPLE I HAVE RESPECTED THE MOST IN MY LIFE PASSED AWAY. AND ALL I CAN THINK IS WHY THE FUCK WOULD DID HE HAVE TO BE TAKEN FROM US AND NOT YOU. HE WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST PEOPLE IN THE HISTORY OF SAILING, YOU ARE AN ANNOYING PIECE OF SHIT, WHO IS UNANIMOUSLY, AROUND THE ENTIRE WORLD OF SAILING IS HATED THROUGH AND THROUGH.

Sorry for carrying on everyone else, I'm little bit heart broken to no longer have Ian Farrier with us, from meeting the bloke years ago and having nothing but a pleasurable encounter with the man who designed the best boat we ever owned by far . (That coupled with about 100 hours in the workshop this week in 40+ degree Celsius heat).

Doug Lord, take note of peoples reactions to the sadness of the passing of Ian on here he was a true visionary who changed the face of sailing forever, and please remember that we will celebrate the day you stop posting. Not mourn you. I don't care if you insult me here, I don't care if anyone says what I said was too far, but the only contribution you have to sailing, is lessening the experience of reading and discussing sailing related content online.

Of all the uninformed trash you've written about me this tirade takes the cake. But it's much more than your normal attack on me-it's your hideous use of Ian Farriers name to "justify" your death wish for me. You couldn't have known or respected Ian Farrier because if you did you'd realize what he would think of what you've done here. He was a great man and I can tell you he would be appalled at your soiling his name as a reason for such an incredible, disgusting personal attack!!

=============================================

The thing with you darthie, is that you can't deal with stuff upfront so you have to make yourself anonymous and then participate in the modern version of a lynch mob to handle things you disagree with. Then you have to try to convince the MOB that its not a lynch MOB but represents the will of the people--which is THE BIG LIE.  Especially when there are only about 6 MOB members responsible for 95% of the downvotes-something that in the annals of truth, justice and fairness is more than the BIG LIE---it is a damn disgrace.......

=============================================

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dude, Ian HATED you. 

He, like dozens of other top sailors and designers, complained frequently to mods - including me - about you until it became obvious that Scot wouldn't ban people for being trolly, dumb, and obnoxious.

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Doug you have never proved anything you have asserted here.  I don't expect you to start now. 

Like all the professionals in the industry I have ever spoken to on the topic, he felt you hurt dialogue with your shitposting and acting out.  Maybe you should think about that.  

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23 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Doug you have never proved anything you have asserted here.  I don't expect you to start now. 

Like all the professionals in the industry I have ever spoken to on the topic, he felt you hurt dialogue with your shitposting and acting out.  Maybe you should think about that.  

Thats just plain bullshit!

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25 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Doug you have never proved anything you have asserted here.  I don't expect you to start now. 

Like all the professionals in the industry I have ever spoken to on the topic, he felt you hurt dialogue with your shitposting and acting out.  Maybe you should think about that.  

He's become an adjective.

 

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What Doug can't understand is that all these professionals, every designer, builder, sailor that he talks to, is obliged to talk nicely to Doug because if they said "please fuck off I hate you" then Doug would post that online and it would hurt their business, so they all pretend to his face to be interested and care, when in reality they all wish he would just fuck off. I personally don't know why they respond and don't just ignore it, because no response would be better than complimenting him.

Doug, Ian would be sad to see you posting about his boats, as I'm sure everyone is, but they will never say it because it will hurt their business if he shares the negative things they say, so they only say positive things. You ask why I stay anonymous, it's because I can speak my mind without it being able to come back and impact my business interests.

"You couldn't have known or respected Ian Farrier " - Ah yeah, mate I've met him over a dozen times, spoken to him on many occasions, personally thanked him for the great boat he sold me, preached to him about how great his work is and how much I and everyone around respect him for it. He is literally the designer I respect the most (sorry to the others who are great, guys like Perry, Grainger, Crowther etc You guys are all great too) I know how much he hated you, I know how much many people hate you. Hell I was at a club a little while ago and someone you talk about all the time was there, anyway someone else mentioned your name, and you should have seen him shudder. He was fucking sickened by hearing the words "Doug Lord". My father who hasn't been on here in years asks if your still around and if you don't shut the fuck up (you are actually the reason he gave up reading on here, because he thought you were so fucking annoying, and chose to not read about sailing rather than put up with your bullshit).

"The thing with you darthie, is that you can't deal with stuff upfront"

Up front? How about you send me your address and I'll stop by when I'm in the USA next year? Hows that for up front for you?

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It is painfully obvious that Doug Lord suffers from severe Narcisistic Personality Disorder (NPD). People with NPD commonly live in a world of delusion. Any attempt to try and reason with them is futile, as NPD is a mental illness.

http://samvak.tripod.com/narcissistpsychotic.html

-One of the most important symptoms of pathological narcissism (the Narcissistic Personality Disorder) is grandiosity. Grandiose fantasies (megalomaniac delusions of grandeur) permeate every aspect of the narcissist's personality. They are the reason that the narcissist feels entitled to special treatment which is typically incommensurate with his real accomplishments. The Grandiosity Gap is the abyss between the narcissist's self-image (as reified by his False Self) and reality.

-A delusion is "a false belief based on incorrect inference about external reality that is firmly sustained despite what almost everyone else believes and despite what constitutes incontrovertible and obvious proof or evidence to the contrary".

***R.T.***

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There's a reason Doug wants to see a boat that allows the user to sit in the middle and not move. There HAS to be a reason he can't sail his models without someone else doing the work.

 

Which COULD lead to an interesting design debate.

If Doug was to say "what kind of boat would you design to meet this brief" 

<18 ft

self-righting

Safe for a person with mobility issues or eyesight issues

simple to launch and retrieve by said person

as high performance as could be, given the above

Cost effective

 

If THAT was the approach, I think there'd be a lot of interesting debate. 

 

As it is, Doug won't actually give the real design brief, for his own personal reasons(whatever that might be). Instead, he decides to lambast experts and lay people alike, posting picture after picture of that which has been seen for a decade, until we all just look at his threads with some morbid curiosity, knowing we will be worse off for it.

 

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On 12/15/2017 at 8:39 PM, atwinda said:

in an attempt to get this back on topic: SNIP

It sails... it also has foil boards (not shown here).. but the hulls were not sealed well enough and it needs some electronics upgrades... 

D'oh!   I know that feeling.  All the way back to the first R/C boat I designed on a napkin and built in primary school, you get that first day on the water and invariably stuff the thing and fry your electronics.  

Looks beautiful, aka structure looks like you could stand on it!  Keep the pics coming and best of luck on the water.

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3 hours ago, Loose Cannon said:

D'oh!   I know that feeling.  All the way back to the first R/C boat I designed on a napkin and built in primary school, you get that first day on the water and invariably stuff the thing and fry your electronics.  

Looks beautiful, aka structure looks like you could stand on it!  Keep the pics coming and best of luck on the water.

luckily no fried electronics- center pod remained dry throughout the weekend. The hulls on the other hand likely have micro holes as a side effect from novice vacuum bagging / boat building. electronic issues solely related to range. All other systems checked out. So I'll seal 'er up and get a new receiver and keep at it. 

Likely end up with a arduino foil control system (already in development) should I need to actively control the foils.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...

Last three days, i tested my ARDU-Foiler V1.0 with the AC40 under prop power.
The ARDU-Foiler works well and allows a stable attitude.

The height above the water surface can also be set arbitrarily via the remote control.

Little tuning  with sail power and it will work perfect for Gosport Mini40 Open next weekend, i hope 1f609.pngTestfug_007.thumb.jpg.73fdaddb2eefc0a44c2da561d26994f2.jpg

Testfug_004.thumb.jpg.4bf67ce2bcc9737141eb396f9871e769.jpg

Testfug_006.thumb.jpg.c371d3144a5ec5ce15977cd2d9a92e7a.jpg

 

 

Testfug_005.jpg

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Definitely going to try to get some video and stuff - quite hard when you're sailing but the split fleets should help. The few helpers organising the event are already tied up with running the racing.

Really looking forward to it though - hope we get some breeze!

 

11 hours ago, Loose Cannon said:

Will follow you at the Gosport event via Facebook.  Please tell whoever isn't racing to post some video there!

Good luck

 

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

@Hydroptere - cool! I didn't know folks were using Arduinos on RC boats.

I might be putting an Arduino or similar board, plus a couple of servos, on my very wet catamaran. Are there good references on waterproof setups for servos + batteries + controller board? Where should I start reading? (I can build computer hardware to a certain degree :-) ).

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  • 1 year later...
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Hi, I've been away a while. However this is the latest RC-trimaran ready for racing. It is a classical layout without foils. It sails very uncritical and easy to control, goes through tacks etc. As soon as we can go sailing/racing again we will see how fast it is....

Cheers, Chris

IMG_2920.thumb.jpeg.d30d553dce6938497a817d6ee5dd7343.jpegIMG_2928.thumb.jpeg.2c9872c8981a5cb869dcca595772e954.jpeg

IMG_2918.thumb.jpeg.714c4ce15ce47c24e8391df32eeb3869.jpegf4340f73-cbfb-4965-b475-45bdb5721e8d.thumb.jpeg.0859e0924cdd2ec39c94d1df610d6e87.jpegb813c217-f865-4c83-8944-9704e4c6825e.thumb.jpeg.b6e97321ae37d6c5ed714ccd7dc9ed34.jpegIMG_1844.thumb.jpeg.3f57d9cc59945e334e3bb2e686bcbcbc.jpeg

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8 hours ago, Jethrow said:

Is that hull an actual One Design boat or just the name? Looks like a nice hull...

It's not actual One Design but inspired by the original MOD70s. However there are 7 boats of this kind sailing. They share hulls and dimensions and differ in material and rigs. It is thought as a comparable set of boats within the Mini-40 class. 

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  • 1 year later...

What are you using for radios?  I have a ton of RC monohulls and was thinking of building a multi, but, with the monos, I felt the generic RC radios I used did not have enough range for sailing them in the ocean, so I kinda stopped.

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