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20+ Footer - Building in Hawaii


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1 hour ago, Jim Donovan said:

Sorry WCB - those messages don't make it through my spam filters.

The 20 is on the worklist finally to be completed and sailing this spring - only been 11 or so years . . . I'll start posting build photos as progress resumes.

"Practicing" pouring a bulb for a 34 footer next week; If all goes well, the 20 footers bulb will be next. 

For now, I've got a snow plow to install on my truck - snow's on the way!

In Vermont, Jim

Snow plowing in Flip Flops?

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Also designing a 32 foot boat for double handed racing.  Scaled up GP with specific details for DH racing. Looking at the competition; this is will be easy.

Sanded the filler and applied a coat of resin w/graphite powder & little cabosil to get to a black shiny surface which will show any and all imperfections. The brush strokes will flatten as t

Sorry WCB - those messages don't make it through my spam filters. The 20 is on the worklist finally to be completed and sailing this spring - only been 11 or so years . . . I'll start posting bui

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12 hours ago, Jim Donovan said:

Merry Christmas Peter. 

Wore out my last pair of slippers and now wearing more appropriate Vermont style boots and plaid. 

 

Screenshot_20201225-095955.png

Jim, what took you to Vermont?  Lots of changes...Hawaii to the Northwest, now to Vermont.  I moved from Vermont out to Park City, Utah fourteen years ago. Love that state. 

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Vermont is one of the safest places to be during the COVID; seemed like a good plan back in March, and has worked out perfectly.

Yep that's the 20 footer out in the cold. Although X-mas morning started out at 64 degrees and it poured rain all day; there is ZERO snow on the ground.

20 should be back in the shed next week; got the rudder and keel on the agenda beginning of the the new year.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Snowed the other day . . . trailer tongue weight is only about 20 lbs, so the snow load caused this.

Beauty of it (that's not so obvious in the photo) is the hull is still 6" clear of the ground - trailer bottomed out first.

I'd like to say I planned it that way . . . 

snowy 20.jpg

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24 minutes ago, Jim Donovan said:

Snowed the other day . . . trailer tongue weight is only about 20 lbs, so the snow load caused this.

Beauty of it (that's not so obvious in the photo) is the hull is still 6" clear of the ground - trailer bottomed out first.

I'd like to say I planned it that way . . . 

snowy 20.jpg

Gives new meaning to a self draining cockpit.

Even with her nose up in the air, she still looks damn fine. Prettiest 20 footer out there in my opinion. 

Glad it was tied down securely. Bet there is now a block under the back of the trailer.

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When I first arrived in Vermont, I had only the aft straps on.

The boat is empty and tried to launch off the trailer one windy afternoon; it's like living in a wind tunnel here.

Fws straps went back on after that.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Have had a couple days above freezing this month, and took advantage of a sunny 38 degree Friday to cast the bulb for the 34 footer. 6" of snow that night. Didn't realize how effective a boat building tool a snow plow can be pushing 1000 lbs of mold and lead around. Pour came out "okay", and learned a ton about mold prep, pour speed, venting, lead shaping, etc.

Yesterday we had an unexpected thaw and swept the snow and chipped the ice off the 20, then pushed it back in the shed. Now she's sitting in the nice and "warm" 40 degree shed next to the 34 bulb that's getting a bit of power/hand planning to clean up the casting. 

This weekend has highs in the teens, lows in the single digits, Next week has highs in the mid 20s; "normal" Vermont. 

20 ftr bulb is next on the agenda; plug first and then mold. Planned it so I can reuse the mold flask and sand from  the 34 bulb.

Not sure when, if ever, it'll warm enough again to pour. Picture1.jpg.74b64e3aab2e589fd07eb2c2796d513f.jpg

Picture2.jpg.a7155658497e96833efa96cedae4f1f2.jpg

Picture3.jpg.c48db0c21db84b523a1a24b2df7e804d.jpg

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This is a great project. I’m sorry I couldn’t buy it last year, wound up in a divorce instead...

Impressed that you wore the respirator mask as well. There was a lead bulb pour in Cruising anarchy last year and 4 guys and no masks:(

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16 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

This is a great project. I’m sorry I couldn’t buy it last year, wound up in a divorce instead...

Impressed that you wore the respirator mask as well. There was a lead bulb pour in Cruising anarchy last year and 4 guys and no masks:(

Lead is not good for you.

Great looking bulb, why no beavertail?

FB- Doug

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15 hours ago, chickenlips said:

Jim, 

Can you tell us about the 34 footer?

Thanks

The 34 footer is a 70's design Waarschip 1010; plywood lapstrake hull.

The boat had been left in a boatyard for quite a while, and was in desperate need of some love and attention.

When COVID started shutting everything down, I ended up in the same shed as this boat, and the restoration began.

There was a LOT OF WORK needed; every bit of it needed some help.

Total paint, keel, rudder and deck hardware renew brought this beautiful yacht back; you cannot take this boat anywhere without someone telling you how beautiful it is.

Here's a few photos showing before and after;

 

Transom rebuild was all about allowing us to wind up the runners on a fairly rotten structure

Keel is iron and had typical "old iron keel" issues.

New carbon rudder from my HB 30 rudder mold; Jeffa supplied a beautiful stainless shaft that fit the original bearings. 

Transom 1.jpg

Transom 2.jpg

Transom 3.jpg

Transom 4.jpg

1st Sail.jpg

Out of the shed.jpg

Keel 1.jpg

Keel 2.jpg

Keel 3.jpg

Keel 4.jpg

 

Rudder.jpg

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21 hours ago, SEC16518 said:

I may have missed this in the thread....Is there a production goal for the 20' or will it just be a one off?

 

 

It's a one-off at this time; no molds for anything.

Wouldn't take much to pull a mold off this hull. Originally imagined it'd be a nice kit-boat for guys who have enough skills to finish a hull/deck.

A huge amount of cost in any boat is the labor hours in finishing/painting/outfitting, and that effort is almost equal for a 20 footer as it is for a 30 footer. Making any profit selling 20 footers would be difficult.

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Foam for the rudder arrived today; going to build a mold so there will be a very nice option available for 20 to 25 footers with transom hung rudders.

Setting up to build the plug for the keel bulb; photos coming soon.

 

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starting the bulb plug

3/4" MDF vertical sections cut with jigsaw and then sanded with bench sander.

Bent blade cut the first couple parts a bit funky; still usable parts as long as I stack them correctly - it's only the inner edge of each part that matters.

20 BULB 1.jpg

20 BULB 2.jpg

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Matched the parts for the other half of the bulb plug, and glued them up.

Traced the parts on MDF and then cut them out with a jigsaw and circular saw, approx 1/8" oversized all around.

Screwed the faired part to the rough cut part, and used my now most favorite tool (Makita cordless router) with a bottom bearing flush trim bit to precisely match rough cut part to the faired part. Lots of dust and very nice result.

Just glue all the parts together like a loaf of bread. Kind of looks like a bulb . . .

 

 

20 BULB 3.jpg

20 BULB 4.jpg

20 BULB 5.jpg

20 BULB 6.jpg

Turkeys.jpg

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Fun to watch the project, Jim.  Thanks for sharing as always.

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Last thing yesterday afternoon I sprayed a coat of black paint over the entire bulb plug. This is used to guide the fairing process.

First I "attacked" the MDF with my grinder, which takes off material super fast and not very smoothly. This is an insanely dusty procedure, so did this outside in the freezing temps. There was a strong breeze blowing, which was great for dust extraction, and sent the wind chill down  to about 20 degrees. In 30 minutes I had one half rough faired, and 30 minutes later the other half.

The black paint should just disappear when the bulb is at the desired shape.The goal is to fair the entire plug with very thin black streaks over the entire surface. You can see where I almost went too far with grinder and there's just a super thin streak of black paint; can't go any deeper there. There will be a coat of filler before the plug is finished, so a gouge here and there is not horrible.

Made a 1/4" thick plywood horizontal section through the center of the bulb, and screwed that to the plug; this will guide me in shaping the planview. 

Next shaping will be done with a surform, which will confirm to the final contours better than a grinder can. 

20 BULB 7.jpg

20 BULB 8.jpg

20 BULB 9.jpg

20 BULB 10.jpg

20 BULB 11.jpg

20 BULB 12.jpg

20 BULB 14.jpg

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Re: Power hand tools.

For working on boats, cordless tools are a must; too difficult to get cords back into the small/weird spaces.

I was impressed by a few Makita cordless drill/driver sets that got used and abused for 4 years straight building the 88 footer; they wouldn't give up.

My set of 18V Dewalt tools had the batteries all give up much too early, and I switched over to Makita 18V Li tools. Basically you need to make a single manufacturer choice unless you enjoy spending huge amounts of cash on batteries. Can't complain about choosing Makita, and have only burnt out 1 of my 6 batteries in 5 years of hard use.

I did burn out (literally) a right angle drill that got severely abused fixing my friends TP52; using it as a mini-grinder and it started smoking in my hands. My drill started smoking last August, thought it's days were numbered. It got over that and is still going strong today.

My Makita cordless grinder is a workhorse, that just keeps on going. I think I paid $110 for the grinder/battery/charger kit; the grinder was basically free!

I do like the Milwaukee cordless tools; they have some very nice kits.

For corded tools, I go with Bosch and Hilti; I'd own ALL Hilti if I could afford it.

The (corded) Mirka sander w/Fein vacuum is about a $1000 investment; seems hard to justify until you start using it and realize it's an insanely great tool.

 

 

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@Jim Donovan thank you so much for sharing your build. It was fascinating watching you build the deck and hull in Hawaii. It is equally fascinating watching you finish it up. Very educational. 

 

Know what you mean about picking a single mfg for cordless tools. I got locked into bosch many years ago. Fortunately, it has been an ok choice. I really like their new small brushless drivers. Used one to sheetrock our garage. When working overhead, a small, light, yet powerful driver is perfect. If the porter-cable router I tried to buy dozens of years ago wasn't out of stock, maybe I'd be using their cordless tools today. Funny how that works.

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Near final fairing of bulb completed today.

Put some orange tape on the planview section template and sanded w/Mirka sander til the plug matched (when you start hitting the tape with the sander it's time to stop sanding.

  

20 BULB 15.jpg

20 BULB 16.jpg

20 BULB 17.jpg

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Clamped the plug into bench vise and went at it with surform and Mirka and some mand-sanding.

When the black lines get super thin, it's the right shape.

I'd rather see some evidence of black, as long as it's consistent P&S

20 BULB 18.jpg

20 BULB 19.jpg

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With sanding finished, first pass of putty; getting all one color with shiny putty gives me a better idea how fair it is.

There will be a couple more passes of filler, mostly to fix any low spots. The tail needs a little work too; the MDF flaked off on one side. 

20 BULB 20.jpg

20 BULB 21.jpg

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Sanded the filler and applied a coat of resin w/graphite powder & little cabosil to get to a black shiny surface which will show any and all imperfections.

The brush strokes will flatten as the resin self levels. The cabosil helps with avoiding sags; hopefully I added enough.

Still a few spots to deal with: tail and max width areas, but pretty happy with how quickly/easily this plug has gone together

20 BULB 22.jpg

20 BULB 23.jpg

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On 2/9/2021 at 2:20 PM, Jim Donovan said:

Sanded the filler and applied a coat of resin w/graphite powder & little cabosil to get to a black shiny surface which will show any and all imperfections.

The brush strokes will flatten as the resin self levels. The cabosil helps with avoiding sags; hopefully I added enough.

Still a few spots to deal with: tail and max width areas, but pretty happy with how quickly/easily this plug has gone together

20 BULB 22.jpg

20 BULB 23.jpg

"Longboarded" (wasn't very long) the bulb surface, made the small fills at max width and added H.D. filler to fix tail.

The stacks of 3/4" MDF were approx 6mm narrow of the design, so I expected this fill would be necessary; happy to see how symmetrical they are P&S. 

20 BULB 24.jpg

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Layer, sand, repeat.....   its a lifestyle !    I went with Mikita 18V and have had very good reliability.   The new batteries with increased Ah is bueno.   Love the little HEPA filter wet/dry vacuum, talk about great in tight spaces.

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5 hours ago, Jim Donovan said:

"Longboarded" (wasn't very long) the bulb surface, made the small fills at max width and added H.D. filler to fix tail.

The stacks of 3/4" MDF were approx 6mm narrow of the design, so I expected this fill would be necessary; happy to see how symmetrical they are P&S. 

20 BULB 24.jpg

That looks like something that would live in the sea. Guess that is a good sign. 

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On 2/12/2021 at 4:05 PM, solosailor said:

Layer, sand, repeat.....   its a lifestyle !    I went with Mikita 18V and have had very good reliability.   The new batteries with increased Ah is bueno.   Love the little HEPA filter wet/dry vacuum, talk about great in tight spaces.

PPE is part of the "lifestyle". Covid simply made us wear our normal dust/particle protection out of the shop.

Who would have thought we would ever be fashionable . . .

PPE.jpg

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41 minutes ago, Jim Donovan said:

PPE is part of the "lifestyle". Covid simply made us wear our normal dust/particle protection out of the shop.

Who would have thought we would ever be fashionable . . .

PPE.jpg

All depends on what kind of guitar you're carrying

;)

FB- Doug

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Rudder starting up; got both halves out of a 6' x 2' x 3/4" piece of core.

Laminated a layer of 9oz carbon WR onto the foam. This carbon gets glued together when the two halves are glued together, and makes a stiff & visible centerline for the blade. This will become more obvious as the rudder progresses.

Set up a half on the transom to get an idea what it'll look like; I'm  good with it.

 

20 RUDDER 1.jpg

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Been shaping the rudder foam halves past couple days; the Mirka sander has been superb.

The two halves are 80% shaped; the process involves facetting the foam very carefully to lines developed in a CAD drawing.

You can see how the carbon laminate makes a beautiful centerline. 

 

Rudder Shaping 1.jpg

Rudder Shaping 2.jpg

 

In the background, there's the bulb plug is getting it's final fills. Difficult to get epoxy to cure at 40 degrees . . . 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Jim Donovan said:

Think the bulb plug is finally ready for a mold.

Port rudder half is 95% facetted; final smoothing of the edges next.

Rudder Shaping 3.jpg

20 BULB 25.jpg

Please post how you lay up the rudder.  I've got a 110 rudder, 505 rudder and centerboard to lay up and I would love to see your process to compare it with how I thought it should be done.

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Had to extract the engine out of the 34 footer late last week; not particularly simple due to clearance issues and a metal ceiling in the shed that hides all the ceiling beams.

Ended up building a gate kind of thing that hinged over the companionway and then would swing back towards the wall to drop the engine down to the shed floor.

Thistle Engine Out.jpg

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Engine move done, I finished facetting the other rudder half today; bulb in foreground got a laminate on it to make a mold for the other half of the bulb plug.

Detail shows my method for tracking small final foam facets on rudder core; these are really small areas and it takes a gentle approach. I mark the area to be sanded with a pencil so I can track when I'm getting close to my lines.  

20 BULB 26.jpg

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Been a bit difficult this week; temps well below freezing doesn't work well for epoxy resin cure.

Since the bulb is symmetrical top and bottom, I only needed to shape one half.

I set that part on my table and built a  mold from it; needed a little bit of repair at the edges (normal stuff).

Laminated a part in that mold - super resin rich so hopefully it will be nice and smooth when it comes out.

Overnight, the part was quite soft and came into our home to get warm for a day; it's upstairs in the hallway.  

 

Bulb Mold.jpg

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  • 1 month later...

Damn Ed. Change formats and we lose our favorite poster. Cannot blame him, but I sure miss Mr. Donovan's posts. Most educational posts ever. Fascinating build.  

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Not so much the format change as a bunch of other jobs to take care of.

Engines back in the 34 footer; sound insulated the engine box which involved a week of "boat Yoga" crammed into the bilge with a plywood frame thing jammed into my ribs. Turned out nice - looks like new. Also setting up for a trailer and need to build the bunks. Latest "toy" is a laser level; resisted buying the $500 one I wanted and trying a $200 thing which seems okay for very basic tasks.

Then there was the 42 footer that had a anchoring system in need of help; little bit of grinding, marks on the chain, stretching the rode out to eliminate the kinks and that's "ship-shape".

A multitude of other stuff too, so the Twenty waits. 

Then I have my new worker "Forest". Seems bored with my daily tasks and prefers playing ball all day. He's got a really big nose and ears, so power tools and smelly stuff (paint/resin) isn't happening.

Got back on the Twenty build; sanded the high-build on the mast, set the rudder molds up for bracing, and worked on the bulb plug so I cast the bulb when the weather is good. 

  

Thistle Engine.jpg

Thistle Lasered.jpg

Chain Marks.jpg

Forest at Work.jpg

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1 hour ago, Jim Donovan said:

Forest is a great dog and much gentler than Robert the parrot who was there for most of this build.

Parrots are very smart. Friend and neighbor with an African Grey who is quite the conversationalist and trickster. A college room mate of mine had a macaw that was a trip. Had a mean streak though.

- DSK

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As much as parrots and macaws want to hate me, I know how they behave and they always wind up liking me.

I like dogs better. You know when they’re likely to bite!

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On 4/15/2021 at 4:14 PM, Jim Donovan said:

Also designing a 32 foot boat for double handed racing.  Scaled up GP with specific details for DH racing.

Looking at the competition; this is will be easy.

Sounds cool, can you share any more details?

Cheers 

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In the meantime, despite some wildly fluctuating weather, the 20's getting some attention.

Have the bulb plug finished and it's in the flask getting the sand crammed onto it (photos later).

Rudder molds finally ready; added a plywood base to keep them straight, and laminated a couple layers of glass tape onto the leading edge to make a rebate for a joining laminate.

Made a paper pattern for the material cutting; seems like an extra step, but reduces the time and potential F-Ups when your doing the laminate and rushing to get the bag on. Pattern gets used 6 times: P&S DB material, P&S peel ply, and P&S breather. And it makes sure that everything fits within the vacuum bag sealant tape. Used my new cutting table that has material storage under. Got some plywood for the 34 footer, and they strapped a couple sheets of beautiful oak faced plywood either side; The sheets had footprints and stuff all over them, but a little sanding made it better than "okay". 

Laminated the starboard rudder half this afternoon. I vac tested the mold this morning; always a good idea if you're using a mold for the first time. Bag on the laminate and pulling 29 inches! Bleed out looks really consistent, even in the areas with 8 plys of material. I'm happy . . .

 

 

 

Spring in Vermont.jpg

Rudder Pattern.jpg

Rudder Carbon.jpg

Cutting Table.jpg

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