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Any Naval Architects out there? I need some Help


Wcyr07

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Hey everyone, so I'm hoping theres a few Naval Architects out there who could offer any tips whatsoever on how to become a Naval Architect in the sailing industy. I am a senior in high school in Michigan with a dream to join the industry, but there really isn't much info out on the web on how to really start. I already applied to the University of Michigan for its Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering program and should hear back within the next month. Any tips are welcomed!! Thanks guys

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Hey everyone, so I'm hoping theres a few Naval Architects out there who could offer any tips whatsoever on how to become a Naval Architect in the sailing industy. I am a senior in high school in Michigan with a dream to join the industry, but there really isn't much info out on the web on how to really start. I already applied to the University of Michigan for its Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering program and should hear back within the next month. Any tips are welcomed!! Thanks guys

 

 

I'm not a naval architect, but I play one on TV. Why not apply to the US Merchant Marine Academy?? or another Maritime college that has a naval architect degree program?? Internship at a marine design firm??

 

Step one: Graduate with your NA degree

Step 2: Marry a wealthy woman

 

 

or listen to Bob.......... ;)

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Ok first the about the USMMA and the rest of the military academies. I've heard they tend to be much more driven towards freighters, shipping, etc. Basically tin can production which wouldn't be as relavent. Then again I could always do that for awhile and later specialize on the side towards sailing right? The great part about these academies is the lack of tuiton and amazing sailing teams

 

 

"I'm not a naval architect, but I play one on TV. Why not apply to the US Merchant Marine Academy?? or another Maritime college that has a naval architect degree program?? Internship at a marine design firm???"

know any of them?

 

about rich wife... got any daughters guys? haha

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There is a gentleman at Farr Design called Russel Bowler, who is one amazing person. If you were to write him an appropriate email, with a well thought out set of questions and what you want to accomplish from the industry and may be able to bring over time, Russ may give you some time. Understand Russ is one of the 'best' in the industry and must be approached by many persons, so tink it thorugh, he is one heck of a person and does give of his time.

 

Otherwise there is the Southampton program in the UK which is very good...

 

Just remember it may be easier to get a degree in another industry and make more than enough money to buy your own boats and work with the designers to create what you want! Some very wise guy told me this once upon a time....

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There is a gentleman at Farr Design called Russel Bowler, who is one amazing person. If you were to write him an appropriate email, with a well thought out set of questions and what you want to accomplish from the industry and may be able to bring over time, Russ may give you some time. Understand Russ is one of the 'best' in the industry and must be approached by many persons, so tink it thorugh, he is one heck of a person and does give of his time.

 

Otherwise there is the Southampton program in the UK which is very good...

 

Just remember it may be easier to get a degree in another industry and make more than enough money to buy your own boats and work with the designers to create what you want! Some very wise guy told me this once upon a time....

 

Thank you very much I will definitely email him, that is certainly worth a shot! I've heard of Southampton and while it would be a dream to go overseas my college fund prohibits that but thanks for mentioning it.

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Just remember it may be easier to get a degree in another industry and make more than enough money to buy your own boats and work with the designers to create what you want! Some very wise guy told me this once upon a time....

 

 

Ding! Ding! Ding!

 

Sage advice there. I heard that Brendan Dobroth is now a preacher performing weddings, but also fairs Etchells keels for 10 grand.

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MKF Said:

 

"Just remember it may be easier to get a degree in another industry and make more than enough money to buy your own boats and work with the designers to create what you want! Some very wise guy told me this once upon a time...."

 

Well,

 

I am a non graduated alumni of the California Maritime Academy. When I attend the academy (late 1960's) it was all about the commercial shipping industry. Nothing about small craft. Maybe this has changed? In any event:

 

I later graduated from a California State University with a BS in Accounting and became a CPA...and now I am working with Bob on a sailboat design.

 

Yes, a degree in another industry might allow you to work with Bob on a sailboat design. (BTW, Bob is a lot of fun to work with on a design project.)

 

 

Kim

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That guy who posted "Bob Perry" has drawn a boat or two in his day, the one I like is "Nightrunner". If you teach him some hotlicks on the keyboards, he might let you intern this summer...

 

You would probably learn more from Bob in a summer than you would learn spending a full year at a university. After all he only has 5000+ boats built to his designs....

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That guy who posted "Bob Perry" has drawn a boat or two in his day, the one I like is "Nightrunner". If you teach him some hotlicks on the keyboards, he might let you intern this summer...

 

You would probably learn more from Bob in a summer than you would learn spending a full year at a university. After all he only has 5000+ boats built to his designs....

 

 

 

+5000

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Wild:

While I do have a piano in the office I don't play it. I dust it. I have a piano in the office because Gary Mull had a piano in his office. Of course, he could play it.

I play guitar. I also, do not take interns anymore. My remote location makes it a bit awkward and I'm through having interns live at my house. Been there several times.

Besides after one intern went back to the Landing School and told them I "abused" him the fun of the intern thing wore off. I didn't exactly "abuse" him.

 

The important part of this thread as it applies to ycr is that he should get a degree in a bigger field with more opportunities and have that degree apply to some element of yacht design, i.e. materials engineering, industrial design, mechanical engineering, residential architecture or even big boat naval architecture. It is becoming a very specialized world.

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... he should get a degree in a bigger field with more opportunities and have that degree apply to some element of yacht design, i.e. materials engineering, industrial design, mechanical engineering, residential architecture or even big boat naval architecture. It is becoming a very specialized world.

 

Investigate Webb Institute on Long Island Sound. Your parents will love you for the tuition (zero).

 

Don't shy away from a program that includes ships. University is all about learning. You will apply all sorts of seemingly random knowledge to your life and career. Those courses outside of some narrow focus are very important, perhaps more important.

 

I started out down the same path, focused on sailing yacht design. Yet I soon discovered that I enjoyed computer science much more than the engineering using computers. So I've made my career in computer science research, and I buy my boats instead of designing them for others.

 

But I'm not discouraging you. Here is a good story about Paul Bieker:

http://www.48north.com/may96/bieker.htm

 

I am designing a boat, my "last" boat. Its a fun process. A couple of builders told me to work on it until it just can't be made simpler, nothing else can be left out. Its getting there. No hurry.

 

You're right about Webb I suppose I should look more into it. It just seems so daunting considering their highly selective academic standards and I think it would be a stretch for my academic accomplishments thus far. I got a 29 on my ACT and a near perfect score on the math section ( I am retaking it in December) and my overall GPA is around a 3.5 in all honors and AP classes.

 

Great info, the article was excellent, and I will remember to keep an open mind.

 

I am now torn between these 3 plans

1. Undergraduate Mechanical engineering or Material Science and Engineering then Graduate school in Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering

2 Undergraduate and Graduate degree in Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering

3. Only Undergraduate degree in Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering

 

 

 

Good luck with your boat!!

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Architecture is a difficult profession, marine or other, lots of time involved, zero compensation for your work, yet everyone thinks it's the more glorious job in the world.

 

I mean come on, it's an f-ing Saturday and I'm pumping CAD in the office. <_< But what do I have to complain about, at least I'm employed......

 

Good luck!

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bro your still in high school, you definitely dont need to worry about having a concrete "plan" when it comes to your major or graduate school.

 

i know tons of people that had a solid "plan" at age 17 and got degrees from georgetown, yale, etc. and then at 25 found themselves back at wayne state getting a 2nd undergrad in what they discovered they really want to do- medicine, teaching, business, etc.

 

your best bet, in my opinion, would be to get the hell outta the great state of michigan.

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bro your still in high school, you definitely dont need to worry about having a concrete "plan" when it comes to your major or graduate school.

 

i know tons of people that had a solid "plan" at age 17 and got degrees from georgetown, yale, etc. and then at 25 found themselves back at wayne state getting a 2nd undergrad in what they discovered they really want to do- medicine, teaching, business, etc.

 

your best bet, in my opinion, would be to get the hell outta the great state of michigan.

 

yeah I must admit, Michigan winters suck.

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I got a 29 on my ACT

 

Hope the retake goes better. I applied to U of M Engineering w/ a 31 (36 math, 34 science) and they still gave me my walking papers. This was of course before the point system was declared illegal. They have figured out a nice work around though so it's an issue. Just tell them your native american if you were born here.

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I am designing a boat, my "last" boat. Its a fun process. A couple of builders told me to work on it until it just can't be made simpler, nothing else can be left out. Its getting there. No hurry.

 

I have been working on the design of my "last" sailboat for many years. Yes, it is "fun" and most rewarding.

I have read every yacht design book and text I could find. (I still have them all; Common Sense by LFH is my fav followed closely by Perry's new book.)

I went looking at every sailboat that was even reasonable close to what I wanted. Sailed on most of them.

Drew dozens of plans. Studied every lines drawing I could get my hands on.

Talked to every knowledgeable person I could find.

 

Then I got smart and I hired Bob Perry; best thing I could have done. He can do in 5 minutes what takes me days to accomplish. Why? Experience; he has done it all and has forgotten more than most of us amateurs will ever know about yacht design. (This does not apply to forum members like Paul K and others who are also very talented yacht designers.)

 

I told Bob I wanted a long narrow light simple day sailor for the pure pleasure of sailing. He delivered what I asked of him; apparently he really listens to his clients!

 

Now I am going through exactly the same process as "carcrash" I am working "on it until it just can't be made simpler, nothing else can be left out."

 

This is really fun, but I don't think I would want to do it as a living.

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bro your still in high school, you definitely dont need to worry about having a concrete "plan" when it comes to your major or graduate school.

 

i know tons of people that had a solid "plan" at age 17 and got degrees from georgetown, yale, etc. and then at 25 found themselves back at wayne state getting a 2nd undergrad in what they discovered they really want to do- medicine, teaching, business, etc.

 

your best bet, in my opinion, would be to get the hell outta the great state of michigan.

 

yeah I must admit, Michigan winters suck.

 

yeah well ice boating is cool. but job wise you will most likely need to leave MI when you graduate to get solid employment anyways, probably to the left or right coast for maritime stuff, so it would make sense to have a degree from a school there. mom and dad arent too keen on this i bet (its a nice reasonable drive to parents weekend in AA) but sometimes the tough choice is the correct one.

 

if i could do it all over again, and were in your shoes- id send it to Nor Cal, establish residency, kick some butt at berkeley city college or ccsf, then take my pick of which top notch UC school i want to attend for 10 grand a year. i believe there is ocean engineering at UC Berkeley (besides the fact that the school is 2 miles from year round sailing on one of the best chunks of water on the planet). 15-20kts almost everday may-september... the choice is yours though. but a move such as this takes major cahones- i bet 85% of your classmates are going to either to msu, umich or miami oh

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The Landing School has quite a good design program and help with job placement. I think you get a lot more out of it if you have some experience with the technical side of boats before going in but for 1 year and the price it can't be beat. It's definitely worth a look into and the school has advanced a lot from the old days when you learned how to build wooden rowboats and such.

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got my NA degree from USCGA and I am heading to U of Mich next summer for grad school in NA. You wont do a lot of sailboat design unless you know the right people, but concepts DO carry over. I am going to be taking a grad school course (the lowest level for it i have seen) in sailboat design and small craft design.

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Hey everyone, so I'm hoping theres a few Naval Architects out there who could offer any tips whatsoever on how to become a Naval Architect in the sailing industy. I am a senior in high school in Michigan with a dream to join the industry, but there really isn't much info out on the web on how to really start. I already applied to the University of Michigan for its Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering program and should hear back within the next month. Any tips are welcomed!! Thanks guys

 

I am a Michigan Naval Arch grad. I knew what I wanted to do in high school - design sailboats. I got a copy of Skene's Elements of Yacht Design, took mechanical drawing and by the time I graduated high school, I had taught myself basic NA and designed a Moth, an IOR One-Tonner and a C-Class catamaran. I didn't want to go to a military school, so it was either Michigan or Webb (at the time - there are others now).

 

The Michigan NA&ME program is a well-rounded engineering degree. As a bonus, you get all the "social" programs that go with attending a school of 30,000+ students. You can't possibly get that at Webb. The Webb guys that I worked with later in my career were socially stunted.

 

That being said, my instructors and counselors almost universally tried to steer me towards big ships - because that's where you can make a decent living. I ignored them until my senior year when I took a class in Ship Production - and fell in love. To me, figuring out how to build ships was infinitely more interesting than designing them. I ended up working as a production planner at Bath Iron Works for three years before life took me in another direction.

 

Michigan sounds like the ideal school for you. Far enough away, yet close to home. In-state tuition. A broad program that lets you concentrate in whatever strikes your fancy - structures, motions, systems, hydrodynamics, production. You can't lose by going there.

 

BTW, in my graduating class of ~ 30 Naval Architects, only 1 made a living doing what most of us originally wanted to. Phil Kaiko (Google him).

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This is one of the most inspiring threads I've ever read on SA. Thanks all for the great input. (and I'm not even the thread starter!)

 

However, I am an engineer in another field (EE), make an OK living in IT, and spend entirely too much time and money and sweat equity racing or just tinkering with boats. So the context is very familiar to me.

 

The advice by HobieAnarchy, I think, is the best for your current stage in life. Do not underestimate the value of a balanced social life in college. The friends you make there are the ones that will be your permanent network through life and who will come to your aid whenever you need them. And there will be times when the most important thing you will have, above work, clients, boats, etc, is friends.

 

One more thing: work hard. Pay attention to what has made other non-celebrities successful-- it aint luck.

 

Good luck to you wcyr07.

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umich is a damn good school, but this well-roundedness and social diversity can be found lots of other places in addition to AA. Kaiko is working in the industry and had to travel 10,000 miles from AA to do it... coincidence?

 

not sure if AA is far enough away from GP, obviously its close enough if mom decides to drive up on a whim to deliver some cookies and extra highlighters and walks in on ya shagging the co-ed from down the hall :P ... but i digress...

 

if you decide to do it, i dont think you will ever regret heading far from home and expanding your horizons... MI will always be there shoudl you choose to return. the road less traveled is not everyone's cup o' tea, but the choice is yours son.

 

yes, work hard. but life can be taken away at any second, so have fun while it lasts!

 

anyways, cheers to all, this is indeed a fun thread.

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Hey everyone, so I'm hoping theres a few Naval Architects out there who could offer any tips whatsoever on how to become a Naval Architect in the sailing industy. I am a senior in high school in Michigan with a dream to join the industry, but there really isn't much info out on the web on how to really start. I already applied to the University of Michigan for its Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering program and should hear back within the next month. Any tips are welcomed!! Thanks guys

 

I am a Michigan Naval Arch grad. I knew what I wanted to do in high school - design sailboats. I got a copy of Skene's Elements of Yacht Design, took mechanical drawing and by the time I graduated high school, I had taught myself basic NA and designed a Moth, an IOR One-Tonner and a C-Class catamaran. I didn't want to go to a military school, so it was either Michigan or Webb (at the time - there are others now).

 

The Michigan NA&ME program is a well-rounded engineering degree. As a bonus, you get all the "social" programs that go with attending a school of 30,000+ students. You can't possibly get that at Webb. The Webb guys that I worked with later in my career were socially stunted.

 

That being said, my instructors and counselors almost universally tried to steer me towards big ships - because that's where you can make a decent living. I ignored them until my senior year when I took a class in Ship Production - and fell in love. To me, figuring out how to build ships was infinitely more interesting than designing them. I ended up working as a production planner at Bath Iron Works for three years before life took me in another direction.

 

Michigan sounds like the ideal school for you. Far enough away, yet close to home. In-state tuition. A broad program that lets you concentrate in whatever strikes your fancy - structures, motions, systems, hydrodynamics, production. You can't lose by going there.

 

BTW, in my graduating class of ~ 30 Naval Architects, only 1 made a living doing what most of us originally wanted to. Phil Kaiko (Google him).

Excellent! I have already toured the University of Michigan about three times. The coolest part was definitely the marine hydrodynamics laboratory, I found out where it was and walked in with my father. We got lucky and they were running tests in the towing tank! They even let us into the room and I got an unplanned hour long tour. I really hope I get accepted!

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This is one of the most inspiring threads I've ever read on SA. Thanks all for the great input. (and I'm not even the thread starter!)

 

However, I am an engineer in another field (EE), make an OK living in IT, and spend entirely too much time and money and sweat equity racing or just tinkering with boats. So the context is very familiar to me.

 

The advice by HobieAnarchy, I think, is the best for your current stage in life. Do not underestimate the value of a balanced social life in college. The friends you make there are the ones that will be your permanent network through life and who will come to your aid whenever you need them. And there will be times when the most important thing you will have, above work, clients, boats, etc, is friends.

 

One more thing: work hard. Pay attention to what has made other non-celebrities successful-- it aint luck.

 

Good luck to you wcyr07.

 

Thank you very much... it's hard work of course

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got my NA degree from USCGA and I am heading to U of Mich next summer for grad school in NA. You wont do a lot of sailboat design unless you know the right people, but concepts DO carry over. I am going to be taking a grad school course (the lowest level for it i have seen) in sailboat design and small craft design.

 

Yeah I was reading over the offered courses for the program and that course jumped out as possibly the most fun class to study for ever to exist. What year did you graduate from the USCGA?

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Leave it to Gouv to drop this down a notch.

 

BTW, Peter, A2 is about an hour's drive from GP. Like I said, far enough away, but still close to home. Kaiko ended up in Perth because his wife is an Aussie. He was a nomad for 20+ years while he worked on the AC stuff.

 

wcyr07, the guy you want to talk to at UofM is Bob Beck. He teaches the sailboat design course.

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Leave it to Gouv to drop this down a notch.

 

BTW, Peter, A2 is about an hour's drive from GP. Like I said, far enough away, but still close to home. Kaiko ended up in Perth because his wife is an Aussie. He was a nomad for 20+ years while he worked on the AC stuff.

 

wcyr07, the guy you want to talk to at UofM is Bob Beck. He teaches the sailboat design course.

 

totally subjective, hobes. i love my 'rents, but northern california seemed too close to MI at times for me, so i guess everyone's situation is different. in state tuition is obviously the kicker. dont get me wrong, you can certainly go to Umich whilst expanding your horizons- ie- study abroad, summer travel, etc. and there are certainly back doors into NA there- you can apply LS&A and then transfer over to NA later, if thats what it takes to get in, if youre dead set on AA.

 

another thing to think about is the quality of sailing team. just sayin

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yeah Bob Beck, when I toured I was told to talk to him. How should I do that? email... call.. I could easily just go to meet him which would be the coolest.

 

And yeah I've already met the sailing team, they are people I have grown up sailing against :). If I don't get into U of M initially could I transfer after freshman year from MSU or something else?

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yeah Bob Beck, when I toured I was told to talk to him. How should I do that? email... call.. I could easily just go to meet him which would be the coolest.

 

And yeah I've already met the sailing team, they are people I have grown up sailing against :). If I don't get into U of M initially could I transfer after freshman year from MSU or something else?

 

Bob Beck's page: Robert F. Beck

 

Send him an e-mail and set up a meet.

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yeah Bob Beck, when I toured I was told to talk to him. How should I do that? email... call.. I could easily just go to meet him which would be the coolest.

 

And yeah I've already met the sailing team, they are people I have grown up sailing against :) . If I don't get into U of M initially could I transfer after freshman year from MSU or something else?

 

Bob Beck's page: Robert F. Beck

 

Send him an e-mail and set up a meet.

 

Perfect, I will now

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Michigan is a great place for the field and if you change your mind while there, Michigan has a lot of other programs that are top notch.

 

Your grades and SATs better be top notch or you can forget about going there though.

 

 

Oh yeah. Jeannie did have a naval>>>

 

 

1169431296.jpg

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I got a 29 on my ACT

 

Hope the retake goes better. I applied to U of M Engineering w/ a 31 (36 math, 34 science) and they still gave me my walking papers. This was of course before the point system was declared illegal. They have figured out a nice work around though so it's an issue. Just tell them your native american if you were born here.

 

If you got rejected with those scores, the Dean of Admissions must have found you in bed with his daughter...

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I was like you when I was about your age. Went to a school that will be left nameless. Graduated with a BE in NA with a heavy concentration in marine engineering. First job out of school was in ship production. Left that to worked as a mech eng in another heavy indusrty. Came back to the marine industry several years ago and have been working as a marine engineer ever since. Recently passed the PE in NA/ME so the door is pretty much open for whatever I want to do on my own time... Unfortunately, the commercial stuff is the bread and butter of the industry. Most of the principles will carry over. If you're a good engineer, you won't have a problem changing gears and will always have something to fall back on. If you can read Marchaj's Aero-hydrodynamics of sailing and not want to blow your brains out, you may have what it takes to make it in the industry. If you want to know specifics, feel free to PM me. Best of luck.

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Go to UM I am a Junior in the NA&ME program, you will be able to learn about sail boats as an undergrad and can fall back on everything else you have learned if the career in yacht design doesn't work out, also for 14 extra credits you can get a dual major in aerospace engineering. PM me if you have any other questions?

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I get a lot of graduates of Naval Architecture contact me for advise/jobs.

I've even worked with a couple. The funny thing is that though they are usually brilliant students, when they hit the real world they, like alot of University Students, have shutters on their eyes and can't see beyond the periphial.

Great to have someone like that 'do a specific job' but to design, you need to look outside the square.

Love Bob's take on it... Never did find that wealthy wife :)

My advise, get a Naval Architect or Mechanical Engineering degree, then [or during] do the Westlawn course... It is brilliant and is directly related to smaller craft and has the brilliant Dave Gerr at the helm.

During all this.... sail, sail, sail [or power....] and get the hands experience of why this needs to be a passion for you to succeed.....

THEN, find a wealthy wife....... :P

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Go to UM I am a Junior in the NA&ME program, you will be able to learn about sail boats as an undergrad and can fall back on everything else you have learned if the career in yacht design doesn't work out, also for 14 extra credits you can get a dual major in aerospace engineering. PM me if you have any other questions?

 

wow for 14 credits that would be awesome. I did not know they share so many requirements but that makes sense. I might take you up on that offer!

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A wise NA once told me not to get a true NA degree. Get a mechanical engineering degree & supplement it with Westlawn or similar.

 

I ended up getting an Ocean Engineering degree from Florida Tech. It's basically a mech/aerospace degree as far as the basics go, but you end up with all the same courses a naval arch degree would have. Then I added in all sorts of courses on ship design, high speed small craft design, Wave Theory, hydroacoustics, marine materials, physical oceanography, materials sciences courses. Even did a senior thesis on IACC bulb & winglet optimization complete with running tow tank models.

 

There was a professor there back in the day and we did a ton of hydrofoil design and testing. Dr. Bradfield was the man. I learned more about foil design and hydrodynamics from him than anyone else. I ended up getting to be one of the crash test dummies for the Windrider Rave, which was designed and developed at FIT (Doc Bradfield & Nigel Irens).

 

Now, I'm a composites engineer for a large epoxy company. It's great work and still keeps me tied very well to the marine industry, which is where I wanted to be anyway when I was in high school. Going on 12 years in and I have no regrets getting an engineering degree over what some would consider a standard naval arch degree.

 

I can also say I'm glad I didn't spend Michigan winters! Florida is much more desirable in February!!

 

PM me and I can tell you more about FIT.

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Perfect way:

 

1. Take French in High School.

2. Graduate Webb Institute with internships at Farr, Finot, and McConaghy, not necessarily in that order.

3. Skip grad school, go to Southampton Institute and get a second degree (hopefully 'free' credits at Webb will shorten the course).

4. Work at Bill Green's while in Southampton.

5. Win a couple of national championships in sports boat classes.

6. Have a very rich wife.

 

I have done one of the above.

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Everyone here has provided good advice. While I am not a degreed NA (I am a yacht designer) I do work collaboratively alongside 5 NAs at my job. All except one or two are excellent at their jobs but are strictly engineering driven and don't have what a sage yacht designer once told me is "the eye". Having "the eye" is being able to recognize and draw fair sweet lines, make sure all those lines blend with each other in harmony, and generally being able to create a good design. To develop that eye make regular trips to marinas and boatyards and look at the boats both in and out of the water. Read books, design reviews and articles, especially ones which provide lines drawings. Take in as much as you can from both old and new to broaden your view. You may want to take some classes in conceptual design, industrial design, and/or art to supplement everything else. If you can, make sure your internships are with firms who do the type of work you would like to do (yacht design).

 

Develop "the eye", get your NA degree, intern with good firms/designers, and you'll be well on your way. If you have the passion and drive to succeed then you will do well. If you find Naval Architecture is not for you then you will have a skill set which will help you in other careers.

 

Good luck. Keep at it!

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Recommend you try state maritime schools and USMMA. Webb is extremely competitive, and narrowly focused.

The Maritime schools will give you a good engineering background which you can use for Naval Arch or other applications.

I'm a NY Maritime grad. Worked for a naval shipyard for a while, until it got boring. Now managing an engineering department at a Nuc Power Plant. And I sail my fanny off when ever I can.

 

GO MARITIME.

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I finished the Southampton Solent (So'ton Institute what was) course this year.

It's great in terms that it gives you a good overview of everything involved in small craft design. However you will find in some areas that they cover ground to quickly for you to truly learn what you need in the time given (i.e. the complicated stuff like structures and hydro), whilst in others time passes very slowly and you wish they crammed more in (CAD- we learnt bugger all about drawing standards for example, means you look like a prat when you do your first working drawings in industry and get asked 'WTF is that?!'). However how this works out is pretty personal to you as the maths gurus will fly away with structures theory but stall when asked to draw something, typically.

 

In addition get you arse both on the water and on the shop floor as much as possible, you can't design something you don’t know how to use or build.

 

I'm now using what I learnt working for a composites engineering company doing prototypes and one-offs of everything from yacht masts to bits of wind and tidal turbines....the marine industry is pretty slow here right now, but having an overview of a lot of engineering areas is useful in other industries too. Getting a decent job you can get excited about is the aim after all.

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All except one or two are excellent at their jobs but are strictly engineering driven and don't have what a sage yacht designer once told me is "the eye".

 

 

Let me rephrase this sentance: All are excellent at their jobs but, except for one or two, don't have what a sage yacht designer once told me is "the eye".

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A number of (jaded) nav archs say you can design sailing yachts or you can eat...

 

Like many have said above, go for commercial naval architecture (or any other engineering degree that takes your fancy) and do sailing yachts on the side.

 

Experience counts most in yacht design, especially at the top end. Getting that experience is the tricky part and it won't necessarily come from an educational institute.

 

Noone's mentioned the Aussie courses yet, there's a full NA eng degree course in Tasmania (with awesome facilities, biggest NA course in Oz) and a degree course at UNSW (tacked onto a mech eng degree, no facilities but it is atleast on the mainland).

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Another working NA here.

 

There are a number of good schools offering NA/ME right now.

 

Michigan

Webb

UNO

Berkeley

University of British Columbia

Memorial University of Newfoundland

Virginia Tech

FAU

 

etc.

 

I would suggest you check out the website of the Society of Naval Architects and Marine Engineers (www.SNAME.org)

 

You will find information on schools, and on the various scholarships that are available (there are often more scholarships than applicants).

 

NA/ME is just about the most general engineering degree you can get, so if you decide to go another way with your career, you will be well rounded.

 

99% of the Naval Architects that I know went into NA/ME with the "dream" that they would get to design sailing yachts.

 

1% of them actually ended up doing that.

 

But the rest still enjoy what they are doing, and there are some really cool jobs out there. I spent a year running a model basin. It was the best (and worst) year of my life, but it was never boring!

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I got a 29 on my ACT

 

Hope the retake goes better. I applied to U of M Engineering w/ a 31 (36 math, 34 science) and they still gave me my walking papers. This was of course before the point system was declared illegal. They have figured out a nice work around though so it's an issue. Just tell them your native american if you were born here.

 

If you got rejected with those scores, the Dean of Admissions must have found you in bed with his daughter...

 

That's ok, Arizona State has its virtues. Not to mention a cash (beer) scholarship.

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There is a gentleman at Farr Design called Russel Bowler, who is one amazing person. If you were to write him an appropriate email, with a well thought out set of questions and what you want to accomplish from the industry and may be able to bring over time, Russ may give you some time. Understand Russ is one of the 'best' in the industry and must be approached by many persons, so tink it thorugh, he is one heck of a person and does give of his time.

 

Otherwise there is the Southampton program in the UK which is very good...

 

Just remember it may be easier to get a degree in another industry and make more than enough money to buy your own boats and work with the designers to create what you want! Some very wise guy told me this once upon a time....

And if Russel doesn't get back to you, at least take a look at this.

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I have found the interns I get from Southampton ( Mark Mills for instance) as the best rounded students. Mark spent a fun summer in my office. ACAD skills can be taught later. But I will say that over the years I have always put great importance on what design work the student can actually produce in addition to his education. I generally started any new guy with a one month trial period. "Show me what you can do." When I got my job with Dick Carter I volunteered to give him two weeks of work free to show him what I could do. And in terms of an "education" I am not a college graduate but spending a year in a 13' square submarine watch tower designing with Yves Marie Tanton, Chick Paine and Mark Lyndsay taught me a lot. We were all in out 20's and very eager to learn so we taught each other as we went along.

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Perfect way:

 

1. Take French in High School.

2. Graduate Webb Institute with internships at Farr, Finot, and McConaghy, not necessarily in that order.

3. Skip grad school, go to Southampton Institute and get a second degree (hopefully 'free' credits at Webb will shorten the course).

4. Work at Bill Green's while in Southampton.

5. Win a couple of national championships in sports boat classes.

6. Have a very rich wife.

 

I have done one of the above.

 

1 yes but I was awful....

2 no

3 went straight to Soton Institute

4 not exactly...I worked in Lymingotn though!

5 Not that good a sailor

6 If only, but still the love of my life

 

I went to Southampton Institute 20 years ago. From my year nobody made a 'name' for themselves but many (some) are still actively involved in the marine industry. (Multipast, Langan Design etc)

I spent a few years building a mix of power and sail, then went in big powerboats for a while, then back to small powerboats for 13 years. I always said sail for fun and have powerboats pay the bills!

I got more interested in the production efficency and fiberglass side of things and enjoyed the complexity of deisgning and building the whole boat.

Got caught in the latest downturn (big corporations have advantages and disadvantages!) but was able to turn my fiberglass experience (and the MBA that the corporation paid for) into a job at a wind turbine company.

Now a happy Nav Arch who is engineering wind turbine blades and having fun in the sun! (much less rain than Seattle)

 

I would get a regular mech engineering degree and then go to the landing school for a year...

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Perfect way:

 

1. Take French in High School.

2. Graduate Webb Institute with internships at Farr, Finot, and McConaghy, not necessarily in that order.

3. Skip grad school, go to Southampton Institute and get a second degree (hopefully 'free' credits at Webb will shorten the course).

4. Work at Bill Green's while in Southampton.

5. Win a couple of national championships in sports boat classes.

6. Have a very rich wife.

 

I have done one of the above.

 

was it taking French in High School?

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Check out Memorial University of Newfoundland. I am a current student. The program is a six year co-op. Memorial has a number of test tanks, and Oceanic is in town, that would be the company with the largest test tanks in NA. Teams such as BMW and Alinghi tests hulls here. There is a huge amount of oil industry stuff as well, in case you ever want to own your own boat. The program is very ship focused, but is expanding to include more small craft, and ROV work. The AUV team from Memorial is one of (if not THE top team in NA). You also will get 53 credits upon graduation, this is one less than a masters student in the US. Memorial Engineering has a great reputation, and tuition is 1500cdn a semester. Due to a number of yacht-minded students like myself relationships are being developed with yachting companies such as boat-speed, sparkman and stevens, etc. The icebergs go by in April, and you can get a great moose burger just outside of town.

Alternatively there is a very similar program with credits accepted by south hampton that provides a bachelor of technology in three years with no co-op. This is offered by the Marine Institute.

Newfoundland is a great place to live, very similar in geography and weather to Norway, Scotland, Iceland.

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There is lots of good advise here on education etc....... all of which will help you, but none of which will guarantee success. School helps, but practical hands on experience with building things will take you further. So after school, work in some boat shops for a while before knocking on design office doors.

 

When I was growing up, all my books were filled with sketches of boats. I built models out of anything on hand. I built my first Moth boat at age 13. Basically, I had no choice about it, I was just driven to design and build boats and have never stopped. I'm not rich or famous, but I've always managed to earn a living doing what I love doing.

 

If you have the drive, passion, or just plain stubbornness to keep going you will succeed. Other wise, give up now and become a salesman.

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I finished the Southampton Solent (So'ton Institute what was) course this year.

It's great in terms that it gives you a good overview of everything involved in small craft design. However you will find in some areas that they cover ground to quickly for you to truly learn what you need in the time given (i.e. the complicated stuff like structures and hydro), whilst in others time passes very slowly and you wish they crammed more in (CAD- we learnt bugger all about drawing standards for example, means you look like a prat when you do your first working drawings in industry and get asked 'WTF is that?!'). However how this works out is pretty personal to you as the maths gurus will fly away with structures theory but stall when asked to draw something, typically.

 

In addition get you arse both on the water and on the shop floor as much as possible, you can't design something you don’t know how to use or build.

 

I'm now using what I learnt working for a composites engineering company doing prototypes and one-offs of everything from yacht masts to bits of wind and tidal turbines....the marine industry is pretty slow here right now, but having an overview of a lot of engineering areas is useful in other industries too. Getting a decent job you can get excited about is the aim after all.

 

Matt L is the king of wood structure, listen to him

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  • 3 months later...

I am currently deferred to U of M's college of engineering. Which is a fancy way of saying waitlisted till April when they make the final decision. If I don't get into the University of Michigan I am just going to MSU my freshmen year and transferring-which I've been told is much easier to get in.

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The Naval Academy in Annapolis offers a great Naval Architecture program, as well as great sailing opportunities.

 

But you are required to serve at least 5 years in the Navy or Marines as an officer after your graduate.

 

If this interests you at all, send me a PM.

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Which means you have a job right out of college too! Pay is even decent. Food's ok. And now there are women on all the ships..evens subs. From personal experience I can tell you be careful of getting too wrapped up in the sailing...and not paying enough attention to the school work...That can limit your career choices come graduation....

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The Naval Academy in Annapolis offers a great Naval Architecture program, as well as great sailing opportunities.

 

But you are required to serve at least 5 years in the Navy or Marines as an officer after your graduate.

 

If this interests you at all, send me a PM.

 

Although, I should add that it is too late for you to apply for the class of 2014 if you are a senior now.

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Rav:

Stop giving away all the trade secrets please.

 

Fully thing is when I was a kid I set my bedroom up like a designer's office or what I thought it would be.

My parents demanded that I get rid of at least some of the yachting magazines I had amassed by taking home discarded collections usually. They claimed the floor was sagging under the bookcase.

As time went on and I quit college my parents never much said a word. When I finally opened my office in Seattle my parents reaction was kind of like "Well that's nice son".

But my dear olod Dad had always dreamed of being a profesional musician. He was very good. But his very conservative parents presured him into becoming an accountant.

When they were really old I went over for a visit one day and noticed that they had two of my books from SAILING magazie out on their coffee table.

It made me feel really good.

 

My kid Spike once said to me as I drove him home from school, "When I grow up I want a job like yours."

"Cool" I said, "You want be be a yacht designer?"

"No Dad. I want a job I like."

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You ought to consider Virginia Tech. They have an ocean engineering program which is the same as michigan's Nav Arch program. The professors are very well connected, especially within the military and military contractors. Plus Blacksburg is a wonderful town....especially during football season...And we are looking for new sailors for our team.....

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Hey everyone, so I'm hoping theres a few Naval Architects out there who could offer any tips whatsoever on how to become a Naval Architect in the sailing industy. I am a senior in high school in Michigan with a dream to join the industry, but there really isn't much info out on the web on how to really start. I already applied to the University of Michigan for its Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering program and should hear back within the next month. Any tips are welcomed!! Thanks guys

 

Go read the Flying-Tiger forum

 

if you are still interested in being a NA

 

start drinking heavily - It's the quickest way to have something in common with the best NA's

 

 

I drink with one of the best

 

he makes his $$ being a Cat-3 and spends his $$ being a NA

 

 

jus sayin, but that's how it goes

 

if you want to have an income you can count on

 

be a doorman at a strip club ;)

 

oh and what Bob said

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1 yes but I was awful....

2 no

3 went straight to Soton Institute

4 not exactly...I worked in Lymingotn though!

5 Not that good a sailor

6 If only, but still the love of my life

 

I went to Southampton Institute 20 years ago. From my year nobody made a 'name' for themselves but many (some) are still actively involved in the marine industry. (Multipast, Langan Design etc)

 

 

Hummm.... I was there about then too.

 

In the years ahead of me was Simon Rogers, Christian Stimson, Mark Mills, and briefly John Corby. In my year, and the years behind me were Seb Mangan, Jason Ker, Shaun Carkeek and one chap called Mani Frers.... I think Juan K was there too, but I don't remember him at all....

 

Personally I don't think any of it really helped. JC probably had the best idea; leave, buy himself a computer (a rare thing in those days) and a copy of MacSurf, and build his own boats.

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The Naval Academy in Annapolis offers a great Naval Architecture program, as well as great sailing opportunities.

 

But you are required to serve at least 5 years in the Navy or Marines as an officer after your graduate.

 

If this interests you at all, send me a PM.

 

I've heard, but I'm not interested in military commitment

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Rav:

Stop giving away all the trade secrets please.

 

Fully thing is when I was a kid I set my bedroom up like a designer's office or what I thought it would be.

My parents demanded that I get rid of at least some of the yachting magazines I had amassed by taking home discarded collections usually. They claimed the floor was sagging under the bookcase.

As time went on and I quit college my parents never much said a word. When I finally opened my office in Seattle my parents reaction was kind of like "Well that's nice son".

But my dear olod Dad had always dreamed of being a profesional musician. He was very good. But his very conservative parents presured him into becoming an accountant.

When they were really old I went over for a visit one day and noticed that they had two of my books from SAILING magazie out on their coffee table.

It made me feel really good.

 

My kid Spike once said to me as I drove him home from school, "When I grow up I want a job like yours."

"Cool" I said, "You want be be a yacht designer?"

"No Dad. I want a job I like."

 

 

I like hearing I'm not the only one with 3+ years of Sailing World and Sail along with a few Naval Arch books crammed into my room. But filed.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey buddy,

m in a very similar situation as you. I have been sailing my whole life, I learned how to sail on my dads O25 and eventually got into dingy sailing and big keel boat sailing. I have been extremely passionate about the sport and want to carry it over into a career as well. I am a 3rd year at Georgia Tech and am studying Industrial Design. ID is basically product design. We bridge the gap between fine arts and engineering. Its a massively open ended major that can bring you into multiple fields. I want to get into yacht design on the compnent level. Wether its winches or something of that nature or rope clutches... I will have the flexability to get into these projects. I was hoping to get into actual yacht design in the future as well. I think its worth checking out and if you want to know more you can messege me or something and ill give you the run down. I am looking hard for a co-op or internship that is relevent to product design, hopefully something sailing related, but am having trouble finding anything in some one close range to Atlanta. If anyone has any suggestions please let me know!.

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You ought to consider Virginia Tech. They have an ocean engineering program which is the same as michigan's Nav Arch program. The professors are very well connected, especially within the military and military contractors. Plus Blacksburg is a wonderful town....especially during football season...And we are looking for new sailors for our team.....

 

I'm a 2007 VT Grad with degrees in Ocean Engineering (Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering) and Aerospace Engineering. The OE has focused on large ship construction, with some detail to the smaller vessels and the new professor coming in have more small boat experience, but if you are really interested, the AE degree is what landed me my job in sailing community. Sail boats are all about fluid flow, whether the fluid be air or water and there are classes now offered that split time between sail and airplane wing design. There were weeks dedicated to the hard wing theory. If you are interested, I got plenty of old text books that I've held onto if you want to borrow any of them. Be glad to ship them. I have a lotta structures stuff on composites now, but I've given up the sailing dream and now work on the government side. The economy tanked jobs up in the NE with in the sailing industry, but I'd be more than happy to pass on contact info if you want summer jobs in Annapolis or Charleston.

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I saw your post on the front page today. I too am a product of Team Bayview and grew up through the ranks from learning to walk on dads boat on the Great Lakes to junior sailing to National and world events. I also had a passion for the sport and I wanted to be a Naval Architect. I was recruited by the Naval Academy for sailing which I thought was great, Great sailing team (NADS) at the time top 5 nationally and Naval Architecture degrees. I graduated with a BS in Naval Architecture and was active Navy for 8 years. I am currently out of the Navy and working at Rite Solutions an IT company.

The one bit of advice I have for you is if you have the option to graduate with the title of Naval Architect or Marine Engineer (basically the exact same thing) Take the title of Marine Engineer. Let me explain: Everyone I interviewed with when getting out of the Navy unless it was a Naval Architect firm thought I was a draftsmen. But when they saw my engineering courses and resume they acted surprised.

Keep at it and if you are ever in Newport RI, look me up. Maybe I can get you on a boat to Bermuda!

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Look Up Jim Antrim also. I've had a couple of his interns crew on my U20 in SF over the years. Jim does wild and interesting stuff and he plays a guitar also. I have a feeling you need to play the 6 string in order to be successful in that business.

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You guy's are all nutz. :P

 

Dude, go to U of M and get a Mechanical Engineering degree. It's one of the nations top programs and with that degree you can go off and do whatever you want since when you graduate your basically a generic engineer. But with that to fall back on, if your boat design plan doesn't end up being able to feed you, you can at least make some good cash as an engineer of some sort.

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You ought to consider Virginia Tech. They have an ocean engineering program which is the same as michigan's Nav Arch program. The professors are very well connected, especially within the military and military contractors. Plus Blacksburg is a wonderful town....especially during football season...And we are looking for new sailors for our team.....

 

I'd take A2 over Blacksburg any day of the week.

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I was you twenty five years ago. I grew up sailing and loved to draw and mess with stuff. I wanted to draw boats for a living and learned there was this career called Naval Architecture and decided that's what I wanted to do with my life. I applied to the US Naval Academy, for a NROTC scholarship, to the University of Michigan, SUNY Maritime and Webb Institute. I was rejected by the USNA, received the scholarship and was accepted to all schools but ended up going to Webb and graduating with a BS in Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering (Webb's is a dual degree). Webb is a great program and provides great experiences and connections in the industry. The 2-month work-study program between semesters each year provides excellent resume building and network opportunities and Webb alumni (Webbies) is a tightly night organization. That said, it's a very small school with acceptance of only 25 students per year and graduating between 15 and 20 per class. If you want a big school college experience, go to Michigan. Michigan's program is also very good and I have the privilege of working with some very talented Big Blue graduates.

 

That said, I don't design yachts. When I graduated in 1990, the luxury tax introduced at that time effectively killed the pleasure boat market. I worked for a naval engineering support services company working on various Navy and US government contracts for a number of years. Ten years ago, I secured a job at Sparkman & Stephens, fulfilling my dream of becoming a yacht designer. I worked as naval architect and marine engineer on a number of designs and did a bunch of sailing and had a great time. However, I took a 20% pay cut and never regained equality with my peers. A year ago, with the economy tanking, I saw the handwriting on the wall. S&S had also gone through an upheaval and I decided to start looking elsewhere. I received a very good offer from one of my former employers and am now managing a number of design projects. I enjoy my job, work with very educated and professional people, get paid much better and have more free time. I think it's the challenge of the design and engineering problem I love, not necessarily yachts themselves. That said, I do miss the artistry. There are two schools of thought; do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life or making a career of an avocation turns it into just another job. Different strokes for different folks.

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I was you twenty five years ago. I grew up sailing and loved to draw and mess with stuff. I wanted to draw boats for a living and learned there was this career called Naval Architecture and decided that's what I wanted to do with my life. I applied to the US Naval Academy, for a NROTC scholarship, to the University of Michigan, SUNY Maritime and Webb Institute. I was rejected by the USNA, received the scholarship and was accepted to all schools but ended up going to Webb and graduating with a BS in Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering (Webb's is a dual degree). Webb is a great program and provides great experiences and connections in the industry. The 2-month work-study program between semesters each year provides excellent resume building and network opportunities and Webb alumni (Webbies) is a tightly night organization. That said, it's a very small school with acceptance of only 25 students per year and graduating between 15 and 20 per class. If you want a big school college experience, go to Michigan. Michigan's program is also very good and I have the privilege of working with some very talented Big Blue graduates.

 

That said, I don't design yachts. When I graduated in 1990, the luxury tax introduced at that time effectively killed the pleasure boat market. I worked for a naval engineering support services company working on various Navy and US government contracts for a number of years. Ten years ago, I secured a job at Sparkman & Stephens, fulfilling my dream of becoming a yacht designer. I worked as naval architect and marine engineer on a number of designs and did a bunch of sailing and had a great time. However, I took a 20% pay cut and never regained equality with my peers. A year ago, with the economy tanking, I saw the handwriting on the wall. S&S had also gone through an upheaval and I decided to start looking elsewhere. I received a very good offer from one of my former employers and am now managing a number of design projects. I enjoy my job, work with very educated and professional people, get paid much better and have more free time. I think it's the challenge of the design and engineering problem I love, not necessarily yachts themselves. That said, I do miss the artistry. There are two schools of thought; do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life or making a career of an avocation turns it into just another job. Different strokes for different folks.

 

 

 

yep I'm forced to go running around the ocean in the warm Sunshine to shoot the SDYC- NOOD

 

not 2 but 3 days this weekend

 

oh and the 1st start is in 1 1/2 hours - gotta run

 

it's become just another job,

 

But I remember full well how much every other job SUCKED compared to this one

 

Go with your Heart - Keep doing what you would do even if you didn't get paid

 

eventually you will be paid for the time you did it for free

 

You Will be Happy = That Will PISS-OFF Many people = Life Will Feel Good

 

Go for it - But remember if you're not doing it for the money you can never complain about the money or it will Never come

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I have nothing constructive to add to this thread. I only want to tell you to keep plugging away at it dude. That you're passionate and driven about something is refreshing and at the same time slightly embarassing for someone like me who will be attending university in the fall with being "undecided" hanging over my head. Good luck getting into your first choice and for fucks sake don't let senioritis catch you. I'm coping with a nasty bout myself (attended school 6 times over the last month!?) and it's pretty unfun. If anything, finishing the year off with stellar grades will ensure you stay accepted or get you catapulted to the top of any waiting list.

 

Best of luck!

-InNeedOfSomeRestraint

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I am not sure how tied you are to staying in the US but there is a fastastic school in St John's, Newfoundland that offers Marine Engineering and Naval Architecture. Marine Institute is a partner with Memorial University of Newfoundland. The tuition is one of the lowest in North America (MUCH cheeper than post-secondary in the US) and the cost of living is super low as well.

 

http://www.mi.mun.ca/navalarch/

 

Good luck!!

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Just a suggetion about U of M. If the wait list doesn't work out, Try U of M dearborn or the LS& play.

To Transfer to the college of engineering is a simple cross campus transfer. There are course requirments and GPA requirments.

I was admitted to the college of engineering as a cross campus transfer as I am a white male and not a complete genius.

U of M Dearborn would have been a better choice for me if I had it to do over again because:

 

1) You have to take 4 Calculus classes to transfer.

2) Easier to learn Calculus from a teacher whose native language is english.

3) Dearborn is cheaper.

4) Credits count the same.

5) Cross Campus tranfer still works.

6) Your first two years are math , physics, chemistry, nothing unique to A2

 

good luck

 

 

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1 yes but I was awful....

2 no

3 went straight to Soton Institute

4 not exactly...I worked in Lymingotn though!

5 Not that good a sailor

6 If only, but still the love of my life

 

I went to Southampton Institute 20 years ago. From my year nobody made a 'name' for themselves but many (some) are still actively involved in the marine industry. (Multipast, Langan Design etc)

 

 

Hummm.... I was there about then too.

 

In the years ahead of me was Simon Rogers, Christian Stimson, Mark Mills, and briefly John Corby. In my year, and the years behind me were Seb Mangan, Jason Ker, Shaun Carkeek and one chap called Mani Frers.... I think Juan K was there too, but I don't remember him at all....

 

Personally I don't think any of it really helped. JC probably had the best idea; leave, buy himself a computer (a rare thing in those days) and a copy of MacSurf, and build his own boats.

 

Simon was the year behind me, Chris two in front. Mani was 2 years behind until he failed the first year and had to retake......

 

JC had an advantage....the Corby trouser press.....that meant he could design and build his own boat....always a good way to get your name out there

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Just a suggetion about U of M. If the wait list doesn't work out, Try U of M dearborn or the LS& play.

To Transfer to the college of engineering is a simple cross campus transfer. There are course requirments and GPA requirments.

I was admitted to the college of engineering as a cross campus transfer as I am a white male and not a complete genius.

U of M Dearborn would have been a better choice for me if I had it to do over again because:

 

1) You have to take 4 Calculus classes to transfer.

2) Easier to learn Calculus from a teacher whose native language is english.

3) Dearborn is cheaper.

4) Credits count the same.

5) Cross Campus tranfer still works.

6) Your first two years are math , physics, chemistry, nothing unique to A2

 

good luck

 

 

 

Luckily NA&ME have special prerequisites for transferring. All I have to take is two Calculus classes and an introductory Physics class

 

 

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