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I hate to agree with Gantt, who is being a total dickhead and is getting so much of the law wrong, but he is absolutely correct that the class made false statements to the members when it came to the vote. He lists 3 such statements, but he omits the fact that the association also told members...

Let's take your argument further. By your argument, you would always side with a retailer/shop over the government consumer protection organisation (pick correct name for your country) because the retailer supplies you goods in exchange for money while you get nothing tangible from the consumer...

Gantt I believe that you are mistaken WRT the builders contract. They pertain to where a builder can sell the boats they build and not to where they are built. It really matters little where they are actually built. So in theory, LPE could even set up a factory in Australia and build Lasers, so...

Tiller Man You are rather short sighted. This is very much the "long game". The only way you can judge whether the association has done the right thing is a few years after the court case has been settled. If LPE wins, they will no longer need the support of the association and ISAF, so will...

This makes your position even harder for me to understand. Can't you see that the person you supported got royally shafted by the association you are a member of? The whole way the vote was handled was a slap in the face for BK. The association absolutely distorted the facts and used scare...

Forgetting Gouv's criminal activity theories for a moment (nobody is going away for this) what is undeniable is that the ILCA made a total hash of the vote. As pointed out above, there were many discrepancies and much misinformation, although it is hard to say how much was deliberate and how...

The biggest "bad" by the ILCA was the advice to vote as soon as possible. They clearly implied that voting early, rather than closer to the deadline for voting, was some benefit to the class. Most people I spoke to saw that as an attempt to get people to vote before BK could put his side of teh...

That was in response to LP stopping paying the royalties. It was posturing and retaliatory. Note how it doesn't say anywhere the word "Laser" but calls it "The Bruce Kirby Olympic Sailing Dinghy". Consider it in light of what has been said above about a name change. IIRC, this forms part of...

First, as for the trademark, I agree it is a major issue. There was always that uneasy tension between holding the trademark and only being licensed to build the design. But for me, that was a real strength for everybody. With that in place, everybody had to "play nice". The association changed...

IPLOre I hope you are correct at your speculative predictions, because it will get around one of my big fears for the class and that is what would happen if LP wasn't allowed to build the boats any more. It would have been the ultimate SNAFU. The only hope in that situation is that Rastegar...

You miss the point. The class had a set of rules. The class changed the rules to ensure one builder kept building the boat. It doesn't matter what that rule is. The builder now knows that all it has to do is threaten to cease production and the class will cave into any demand to change the...

A small point here. The vote was actually rather dubious. The ILCA sent out the details of the rule change and did not give both sides of the argument. Knowinmg the other side of the argument would get out, they implored people to vote early, claiming that it was important to do so. Forums are...

If you think the class has stayed out of the legal matters, you are sadly mistaken. Whether you believe the class did the right thing or not, the way they changed the rules was at the very heart of the legal matter. Without that change, we would have a very different situation today. Some will...

In this case, it is in LPE's interests for the case to run and run. Isn't that what you do when the other party is as old as BK? ;) The question is what will happen to the case if it is not resolved in BK's lifetime? But forget the rights and wrongs of the case itself, how can any civilised...

Considering what the thread is about, namely conflict in the Laser world, I thought it was inappropriate to comment on his passing on this thread as it might all to easily lead to yet another war of words.

How appropriate that the new Exec Secretary of the Laser association is called Faust. The question is whether his pact was made with Rastegar, the devil or are they the same thing :D

To really understand ISAF's accounts, you need to read them on a 4 year rolling basis, because you need to factor in the years they get recognise Olympic money in the P&L and the years they do not.

Phil Maybe I didn't phrase it correctly but we are saying exactly the same thing. We hear that there is a high cost of doing business in Oz and therefore people accept it through ignorance or attack companies for ripping people off when they aren't (or at least that is what my first 2 sentences...

Most people, even in Australia, don't seem to realise the increased costs of doing business here. And it is this ignorance that allows some companies to well over charge while others do the right thing by customers. I have no idea which PSA is falling into, but doing a straight price comparison...

You really are a bitter and twisted person who has no idea of what is going on. 1 - LP makes a lot of money out of new sails, more than the sailmaker and the dealers. They have been responsible for pushing prices on all parts including sails. 2 - your hatred of PSA is, IMO and based on the...