1/6 Committee

El Borracho

Verified User
6,657
2,630
Pacific Rim
Gropenfuhrer will never face any consequences for his behavior
This is correct. America has this idolatry thing. TFG is untouchable. If he comes to any guilt at all it will elevate him to full Jesus/Confederacy/Savior/Patriot status (The Reagan Myth on Steroids). Sadly, for those of us who seek equality before the law and justice, trying to punish TFG, and by proxy his fuckwit enablers, will only extend the pain.
 

bridhb

Super Anarchist
3,726
1,094
Jax, FL
I’m afraid you are correct. It’s at least an even bet thst he will be the next POTUS. Goodbye America, goodbye democracy.
I can see DeSantis pulling way ahead of Trump and taking it. The Democrats are missing a great opportunity by not aggressively campaigning on this with strong candidates and policies.
 

Bristol-Cruiser

Super Anarchist
4,692
1,287
Great Lakes
I spent many, many hours watching the Watergate hearings. I wonder if history will view this young lady as a latter day John Dean?

The sound you hear in the background is support dripping away from Trump. The best he can do in '24 (assuming he is not dressed in orange) is to be a spoiler running as an independent. That would certainly be the best for the country.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,091
9,526
Eastern NC
If a president cannot cannot move about as he chooses in political moments then who is actually in charge? Appears that the SS has something resembling 25th Amendment powers. Or does the president signs away certain powers in some secret inaugural papers? Could the SS prevent the president from signing certain orders, meeting certain people, or accessing the football? Does safety trump political process? If so, who is the decider?
I would have the same concern for any POTUS but Trump. President Zelensky would have been hobbled and Ukraine would have fallen on day two if his secret service had whisked him to a safe bunker far from the capital. Personal leadership can change the course of history. The agents were in a tough spot. Follow orders from the Commander in Chief and use agency resources to help Trump seize power, or refuse the POTUS and follow the plan approved by their supervisor. Their choice likely preserved the union for a few more years. Whether it was a deliberate choice, or a desire not to work late and need to visit the hookers may never be known.

Leadership.

Trump doesn't have any, and the culmination of his lack of character ended with everybody around him doing what they wanted. For many of them, that was the attraction. Meadows was pretty openly crowing about being the power behind the throne.

As for whether any President can order his guards to take him where he wants to go, as official procedure that is wrapped up in the chain of command. He has an itinerary, they clear it, he goes there. It's very much like the military. Yes there are givers of orders, but there are also such things as unlawful orders.

A President with a small amount of intelligence knows the system and works it so that he gets most of what he wants anyway. A President with great personal leadership could simply make a request to his security detail on duty and they'd willingly do what he wanted. Trump has neither, so he gets dragged around by his guards only to places where he's pre-approved to go.

I would guess that Trump acts like such an asshole to everyone around him, that his security detail feels no urge whatever to indulge him even if they're personally MAGAts.
 

Bus Driver

Bacon Quality Control Specialist
Their primary (singular?) mission is to keep him safe. Not indulge in his fantasies of being an emperor.

Every action and move is examined for risk(s) and contingencies are planned.

No one in the Secret Service wants to be anywhere near a decision that bowed to the demands of the POTUS and got him killed.
 

billy backstay

Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
Their primary (singular?) mission is to keep him safe. Not indulge in his fantasies of being an emperor.

Every action and move is examined for risk(s) and contingencies are planned.

No one in the Secret Service wants to be anywhere near a decision that bowed to the demands of the POTUS and got him killed.

Had he gone to the Capitol and further whipped up his violent army, many more would certainly have been killed!!

.
 

Bus Driver

Bacon Quality Control Specialist
Had he gone to the Capitol and further whipped up his violent army, many more would certainly have been killed!!

.
No doubt. But, their mission is not to keep John Q. Public safe. It is to keep the POTUS, and a select few others (mainly, his family), safe.

Since the creation of this detail, they have done a damned fine job of fulfilling their mission. Yes, I am aware of what happened to JFK and Reagan. But, given how often the President is in the public eye, there have been pretty damned successful and keeping the POTUS safe.

That comes at a cost. The President cannot just demand they do something that greatly increases the risk. You heard, or should have heard, Ms. Hutchinson explain the difference between a "public" outing and an "OTR" outing. The latter is not done without planning and contingencies.
 

Sol Rosenberg

Girthy Member
94,103
11,671
Earth
I have heard mixed stories? Bob Engel supposedly testified that Trump grabbed him, but now denies it???

.
Misdirection and deflection. This issue is the head fake, to get the conversation away from the former President knowingly sending an armed mob to the Capitol. Even I fall into the trap from time to time. Don’t let the GOP Bullshit Machine run with this. Focus on the coup.
 

phillysailor

Super Anarchist
8,501
3,328
I know folks’ thoughts gravitate to the scene of Trump assaulting his security detail, but that’s fluff. The real story is how passionately the president supported the mission of the rioters according to all testimony and evidence.

He wanted the armed protestors in his crowd. He wanted the SS to stop efforts to disarm them. He knew they weren’t going to hurt him. The president of the United States wanted to embrace the rioters, cheer them, and send them to the Capitol armed.

The President’s Chief of Staff made plans to attend Giuliani’s “War room” meeting with future indicted leaders of a seditious conspiracy. He relented only when WH lawyers warned that attending would lead to harsh prosecution. He just called in to the meeting instead.

Trump tweeted his support to protestors declaring their desire to kill the US Vice President. He egged them on.

This was a coup, and the whole world knows it thanks to Republicans.


Two thoughts: first, I think this hearing was “unscheduled” but not unplanned. I think the Committee was trying to keep Ms Hutchinson safe despite witness intimidation efforts by the ex-president, and the delay announcing she would be testifying allowed investigations to continue.

Second. Bennie T and Liz Cheney are conducting a massive bipartisan effort restoring faith in American government and democratic leadership. I would support their presidential candidacy, but expect Bennie doesn’t have such a desire.

Biden is pretty fucking old milquetoast and I think America is dying for a significant change in direction. We could easily do well with these two bringing interlocking political skills and bases of support. Rep Thompson’s avuncular gravitas and Cheney’s ability to precisely excise Trump’s throat and elicit crucial testimony would be a vicious buzz saw to competitors from the left and right.

I like to dream. Thx for indulging me.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,091
9,526
Eastern NC
I know folks’ thoughts gravitate to the scene of Trump assaulting his security detail, but that’s fluff. The real story is how passionately the president supported the mission of the rioters according to all testimony and evidence.

He wanted the armed protestors in his crowd. He wanted the SS to stop efforts to disarm them. He knew they weren’t going to hurt him. The president of the United States wanted to embrace the rioters, cheer them, and send them to the Capitol armed.

The President’s Chief of Staff made plans to attend Giuliani’s “War room” meeting with future indicted leaders of a seditious conspiracy. He relented only when WH lawyers warned that attending would lead to harsh prosecution. He just called in to the meeting instead.

Trump tweeted his support to protestors declaring their desire to kill the US Vice President. He egged them on.

This was a coup, and the whole world knows it thanks to Republicans.


Two thoughts: first, I think this hearing was “unscheduled” but not unplanned. I think the Committee was trying to keep Ms Hutchinson safe despite witness intimidation efforts by the ex-president, and the delay announcing she would be testifying allowed investigations to continue.

Second. Bennie T and Liz Cheney are conducting a massive bipartisan effort restoring faith in American government and democratic leadership. I would support their presidential candidacy, but expect Bennie doesn’t have such a desire.

Biden is pretty fucking old milquetoast and I think America is dying for a significant change in direction. We could easily do well with these two bringing interlocking political skills and bases of support. Rep Thompson’s avuncular gravitas and Cheney’s ability to precisely excise Trump’s throat and elicit crucial testimony would be a vicious buzz saw to competitors from the left and right.

I like to dream. Thx for indulging me.

The problem with a duo-umvirate of Thompson & Cheney is that they agree on precisely zero public policy, other than taking down Trump. I'm not sure Cheney would not install herself as dictator, if she could. Her dad only refrained from doing so because he didn't need to, he was handed all the golden keys by W-Doofus.

I wouldn't describe Biden as Milquetoast but he is definitely too old. And he has always been a machine guy. A believer and a worker on/for the government machine and the Dem Party machine; but he also really works and he has put his money where his mouth is. His intended job has been to restore what Trump tore apart, even while most Repubs are continuing to try and tear it apart further.
 

d'ranger

Super Anarchist
29,193
4,298
The most important part of yesterday was at the end when Ms Cheney gave the warning about witness tampering. Which is a federal crime - evidently the 1st attorney for Ms Hutchinson was trying to throw her under the bus, she now has a new guy and so they are going after him as well as trying to discredit the testimony she gave yesterday.

The warning should be heard and heeded because it's no more mr. nice guy. Interesting interview Colbert had with AOC last night and she made the point that at a minimum every person in Congress who participated and certainly everyone who requested a pardon should be removed from office and never allowed to hold public office again. At minimum.

What took Nixon down was not what was done it was the lies and coverups. There were people who went to prison for that, sadly Nixon was given a pass which in the minds of the Trump cabal makes their plan viable. Fool me once, and uh, we ain't going to get fooled again. It isn't a good time to be a Trumplican unless they want to come clean and beg for forgiveness.
 

Lark

Supper Anarchist
9,461
1,680
Ohio
Leadership.

Trump doesn't have any, and the culmination of his lack of character ended with everybody around him doing what they wanted. For many of them, that was the attraction. Meadows was pretty openly crowing about being the power behind the throne.

As for whether any President can order his guards to take him where he wants to go, as official procedure that is wrapped up in the chain of command. He has an itinerary, they clear it, he goes there. It's very much like the military. Yes there are givers of orders, but there are also such things as unlawful orders.

A President with a small amount of intelligence knows the system and works it so that he gets most of what he wants anyway. A President with great personal leadership could simply make a request to his security detail on duty and they'd willingly do what he wanted. Trump has neither, so he gets dragged around by his guards only to places where he's pre-approved to go.

I would guess that Trump acts like such an asshole to everyone around him, that his security detail feels no urge whatever to indulge him even if they're personally MAGAts.
It was good no oathbreakers were in his detail that day.
In the past the POTUS had some latitude. One disappeared for a surprise party before the civil war, nobody in the WH knew where he was for several hours. Even in those days, there was concern he had been captured. FDR dodged his handlers (in a car with hand controls) to score some shine, Truman notoriously would wander out of the WH or Blair House to take his paycheck to the bank, or just to clear his head. Clinton would allegedly sneak out to exercise his alternate head.

Trump could have led the mob and seized power, if his people had only thought to stage a golf cart or mobility scooter. Capital Police, who did have oathbreakers, might have stood down for Trump personally. The national guard was kept inactive. That would have given the rabble the couple precious minutes they needed to capture Pence and Pelosi. Likely one or both would have chosen to confess on video to stealing the election, to escape being hung. The next Republican coup can be expected to succeed, due to lack of consequence for failure.

A more innocent video of an unplanned Presidential walk.
 

Steam Flyer

Sophisticated Yet Humble
44,091
9,526
Eastern NC
The most important part of yesterday was at the end when Ms Cheney gave the warning about witness tampering. Which is a federal crime - evidently the 1st attorney for Ms Hutchinson was trying to throw her under the bus, she now has a new guy and so they are going after him as well as trying to discredit the testimony she gave yesterday.

The warning should be heard and heeded because it's no more mr. nice guy. Interesting interview Colbert had with AOC last night and she made the point that at a minimum every person in Congress who participated and certainly everyone who requested a pardon should be removed from office and never allowed to hold public office again. At minimum.

What took Nixon down was not what was done it was the lies and coverups. There were people who went to prison for that, sadly Nixon was given a pass which in the minds of the Trump cabal makes their plan viable. Fool me once, and uh, we ain't going to get fooled again. It isn't a good time to be a Trumplican unless they want to come clean and beg for forgiveness.
Nuh uh

But I have to agree with you about one thing, Ms. Hutchinson is in considerable danger.
 

phillysailor

Super Anarchist
8,501
3,328
The problem with a duo-umvirate of Thompson & Cheney is that they agree on precisely zero public policy, other than taking down Trump. I'm not sure Cheney would not install herself as dictator, if she could. Her dad only refrained from doing so because he didn't need to, he was handed all the golden keys by W-Doofus.

I wouldn't describe Biden as Milquetoast but he is definitely too old. And he has always been a machine guy. A believer and a worker on/for the government machine and the Dem Party machine; but he also really works and he has put his money where his mouth is. His intended job has been to restore what Trump tore apart, even while most Repubs are continuing to try and tear it apart further.
Cheney and Thompson agree on some pretty important fundamentals: patriotism, honesty, democracy and Justice.

The duopoly appreciates your slavish support, but I wouldn’t mind giving the two party system a tremendous fuck you for putting us in this predicament.

Biden had an opportunity to make Democrats the champions of democracy, but he blew it when he didn’t focus his first year on voting rights and ending gerrymandering.

At this point my goals don’t include propping up the economy while legitimizing the polarization that enabled Trump to attack our nations Capitol with the support of his sycophants.

I disagree with Jeffy, in that I’d rather build that bitch up and tell people to hike harder.

We need some no-nonsense consensus building and compromise. Democrats have to learn how to be spendthrifts, and Republicans need to relearn civic values.

Tell me exactly which policy you think is more important for our nation’s future. or at least try.
 




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