BalticBandit
Super Anarchist
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12 foot skiff video
- Thread starter skiffe
- Start date
FearBiter
Anarchist
BB,
Development class so it depends on many variables (Preferred design, Pro-build Vs Amateur, access to moulds, local costs of carbon, sails, etc, etc)
As a (very rough) guideline; a completed Pro-build carbon Hull (raw/unpainted) with, Main fin, Rudder fin & Rudder box starts at around $15k AUD
A Pro build shell + flat pack panels is much cheaper and amateur build is materials only (the measurement weight for a completed hull & fittings is 45-kg minimum)
To a raw hull you then you need to add:-
+ Paint
+ Carbon Masts (between 2-3)
+ Carbon Boom (1)
+ Carbon Poles (between 1-4)
+ Sails (between 3-4 of Head Sail, Main & Kite)
+ Fittings, standing rigging & ropes
+ Cradle
+ Trailer
= Good times !!
Competitive 2nd hand boats (all inclusive) can be bought for between $15k - $25 AUD….which is a much smarter way to start in the class, as it will be already tuned ready to go. Older full carbon boats availble for under $10k that will still give you an awesome ride.
I would be happy to be corrected by any (make that all) 12 sailors with far more knowledge than me on the topic.
BTW - the NZ vid is sensational!
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I know that we're taking up a few high definition head cams up to Brisbane. I was thinking of maybe sharing them around the crews as much as possible to get a really good first person view of what its like to steer (and maybe mine
) a 12 downwind... also thinking of a few cool camera angles on poles and rudders etc... haha here's hoping for some breeze
BalticBandit
Super Anarchist
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It probably would be more interesting video to strap it to the sprit facing aft. Head cams tend to jump around a lot. If you put the camera on the sprit 2-3' aft of the tip and secure it well, the kite should not have problems and vice versaI know that we're taking up a few high definition head cams up to Brisbane. I was thinking of maybe sharing them around the crews as much as possible to get a really good first person view of what its like to steer (and maybe mine) a 12 downwind... also thinking of a few cool camera angles on poles and rudders etc... haha here's hoping for some breeze
big o
Member
BalticBandit
Super Anarchist
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Problem is that you are all in Oz
though admittedly If some american YC wanted to start a skiff class this would be the way to go: buy 6 of the ones in the $1500-$3000 range. Pack them into a container and for roughly $22,000 US the club can get a fleet started....
Hmm, that might be a way to start a circuit
big o
Member
...or buy one good complete boat, then copy it for building new boats. similar boats = closer racing = more attractive to getting a fleet going... just another way of looking at the solution.
IMO. 6 of $2000 boats will be 6 completely different monsters, some may be complete, some may require a lot of maintenance, none will be current. the rides will still be good.
IMO. 6 of $2000 boats will be 6 completely different monsters, some may be complete, some may require a lot of maintenance, none will be current. the rides will still be good.
BalticBandit
Super Anarchist
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Except that to build an additional 5 boats is going to cost at least $50k US and probably closer to $100k.
And that's cost prohibitive if you are trying to start a circuit/tour. You can solve the boat difference issue by making each event a Round Robin in the boats: equalize the rigs and let each team carry its sails to each boat. Run three heats of 2 races each day on a weekend, with a sail and boat change between each heat.
I dunno - I'm just brainstorming on how to build a more commercially viable sailing sport in the USA - at least on the West Coast.
another_skiff_sailor
New member
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problem with a $2000 boat is you get what you pay for. There is usually a reason a $2000 boat is a $2000 boat.
sadolph
Super Anarchist
They really look like they need a t foil downhill. All that hobby horsing is slow isnt it?
(these don't have a t foil rudder do they?)
(these don't have a t foil rudder do they?)
mustang__1
Super Anarchist
there'd have be something in the water for the T foil to work....
and another skiff sailor is right... there's no such thing as a cheap boat, and cheap boats are often more expensive in the long run...and more time consuming to fix as well.
and another skiff sailor is right... there's no such thing as a cheap boat, and cheap boats are often more expensive in the long run...and more time consuming to fix as well.
FearBiter
Anarchist
T-foils are one of the few restrictions in this development class. Currently they are not permitted (one of the several differences between 12’s and R-class skiffs)
A T-foil would change the optimum hull shape in a big way. Look at the changes in the i14 hulls when they went that way.
Agreed that bouncing is not the fastest way from point A to point B, but it is hell of a lot of fun. If you are bouncing like that you are not travelling slowly.
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skiffboy
Anarchist
It will only cost that much if you pay top dollar for a professional to build it for you. Pure development classes such as the 12 are only commercially viable to those prepared to put in the time and labour to build, maintain and upgrade their own boat. If you want to pay somebody else to build you a cost effective boat, you must be prepared to be beaten by somebody with a better boat. That is the nature of a development class.
Iain C
New member
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I've had low 20s in the 12 and it feels like the world is about to end. Other stuff is faster and more efficient, but nowhere near as much fun. When they do point skywards, it's a really odd feeling when they land...you feel the transom kiss first, and then the whole thing settles into the water a bit more and rotates forwards, ready for the next one. This might sound odd, as I'm not a duck, but to me it feels a bit like what a duck must feel like when it lands on water and planes on it's feet for a few yards if that makes sense!
BalticBandit
Super Anarchist
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I'd love to see the video of that!!A t-foil was tried on a twelve about a decade ago... and lasted about a week... The problem that they found was that as the bow was lifted up by the kite, the t-foil turned into a lifting foil, making the boat jump into the air and crash epically.
FearBiter
Anarchist
In the 12's, I know of several crews that have clocked over 24 knots (instantaneous). It could be even higher now.
At this top end, sea-state really comes into play with such a short WL
Strong breeze & flat(ish) water is the go for speed.
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another_skiff_sailor
New member
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our best 10sec average is 23.7 according to the velocitek, and that was a gust of prob 25kts in flatish water. Like someone else has said, there are boats that go faster, but the short waterline on the 12 means the rides are pretty wild. In my opinion the best feeling is the acceleration when you get hit by a good gust while doing 17-18kts... If you are not ready for it you fall off the back. With the small rig the boat wouldn't be more than 80kgs fully rigged, with 130-200kgs on the wire there is a fair bit of power on tap!
MR.CLEAN
Moderator
- Moderator
- #40
Bryn put together a shorter version of the vid that will go on the front page tonight. Good shit, make sure to check out his site and the cool book there (assuming Bryn is a he - fucking sheep shagger name).
