18' Whisper Production Foiling Cat

[Doug Lord]

The new all-carbon wand controlled Whisper is in production-here is a video from Y&Y. More here: http://www.yachtingworld.com/blogs/matthew-sheahan/fancy-some-foiling-how-you-could-be-flying-in-minutes-on-formula-whisper-65506

 

[Catfan]

More info at:

http://www.whiteformula.com/WhiteFormula_UK/Whisper.html

At GBP 19.500 (=EUR 27.500) VAT included (GBP 20.500 with the "necessary" optionals) is quite a lot cheaper than the Flyng Phantom or the NACRA 20, but also quite a lot more expensive of the singlehanded Stunt 9 (marketed at around EUR 16.000) which exploits the same foilng concept (but actually it started much in advance the sailing trials).

I wonder if the Whisper is attending the Foiling Week.

It would be interesting to evaluate its performance against the other foiling catamarans

 

[Catnewbie]

Catfan

You should compare apples and apples

1-The WIPSTER is a 2 crew boat while the S9 is a single, so S9 price should be compared to WIPSTER's half price

2-The embedded technology deserves also to be compared, WIPSTER foil rely on a patent, and the project was born around Southampton NA university, it should be a guarantee of seriousness, don't you think so ?

When considering all these elements, the WIPSTER seems cheap vs all its concurents, including your S9. isn't it?

Cheers

W

 

[Catfan]

Catnewbie

I already underlined that the S9 is a singlehander (please re-read my posting).

Besides I find quite funny yr theory that is singlehanders have to be priced at half the price of doublehanders and I suppose at a third of the price of three crewed boats (following yr reasoning).

I do not know if the fact that the Whisper is born around the Southampton University makes it faster.

The only way to prove the assumption is to test it against other foilers.

Today the foling week has started at Malcesine on Lake Garda, by far the most important event for foilers in 2015.

I hope that the Whisper guys are there to show their design to the foiling community

 

[Catnewbie]

You missunderstand me Catfan,

The Wiptser is not only innnovative by its integrated foil/wand system, but also by its structure/structural engineering solutions.

A lot of brain power in this design, that's just what I want to enlight.

Your intention seems a bit different, at first glance, one could consider you try to squat a thread dedicated to Wipster in order to promote your S9!

I don't know what the "tone" of the following sentence would suggest to others ,

" but also quite a lot more expensive of the singlehanded Stunt 9 (marketed at around EUR 16.000) which exploits the same foilng concept (but actually it started much in advance the sailing trials).

For me it's a no brainer

Subtlity is not your best asset.

 

[Doug Lord]

There is a major difference between the S9 and Whisper in the wand systems: S9 has a system where the wands are forward of the foil similar to a Moth set up and the wand contacts the water ahead of the foil, whereas on Whisper, the wand contacts the water aft of the foil and possibly closer to the fore and aft CG of the boat.

Both boats appear to work well in smooth water-haven't seen or read about large wave tests for either boat.

 

[teamvmg]

-The WIPSTER is a 2 crew boat while the S9 is a single, so S9 price should be compared to WIPSTER's half price

Rubbish!

 

[hump101]

the Whisper is born around the Southampton University

On a point of order, it is Southampton Solent University (previously Southampton Institute), not Southampton University. Two different institutions.

 

[Catnewbie]

Of course you're right VMG

But this rubbish argument is no more irrelevant than the argument which compares a HC 14 and a F18 on a price basis

or a S9 with 10 sqm sail area with a WHISPER or FP with main+jib+code 0, on a price basis too.

I just regret this thread about the WHIPSTER has been polluted by bimare hill billy's marketing.

Also as Catfan & ITA 16 have a S9 dedicated thread, they have no excuses.

I would be happy if the Whipster designer and builder could provide a little more details regarding their structural approach,

I guess there is as much innovation on this point as with their foils.

But of course we should not discourage them to post.

HUMP101 sorry for the confusion, I mentionned the institution were VPLP, G.Verdier and other cat designers used to study.

Cheers

W

 

[ita 16]

Of course you're right VMG

But this rubbish argument is no more irrelevant than the argument which compares a HC 14 and a F18 on a price basis

or a S9 with 10 sqm sail area with a WHISPER or FP with main+jib+code 0, on a price basis too.

I just regret this thread about the WHIPSTER has been polluted by bimare hill billy's marketing.

Also as Catfan & ITA 16 have a S9 dedicated thread, they have no excuses.

I would be happy if the Whipster designer and builder could provide a little more details regarding their structural approach,

I guess there is as much innovation on this point as with their foils.

But of course we should not discourage them to post.

HUMP101 sorry for the confusion, I mentionned the institution were VPLP, G.Verdier and other cat designers used to study.

Cheers

W

I do not understand why always you try to put my name or trademark in speeches that do not concern me, if you want learn something on S9 you have to come on the S9 forum.

On S9 however we did a lot of designing and engineering, this is obvious and visible also looking at the boat, the foiling kit S9 is total different from the foiling kit W.. , THESE can not be compared, you can only comment on behavior on water,

build a 14 or 18 feet is not much different then the talk you're doing is absurd , before speaking you should inform you, the people here are tired of reading the bullshit you write, please everyone to use the forum for informing or educate the passionate people, and not only let off steam their problems

 

[Catnewbie]

Good ITA 16, we are saying the same thing I agree with you on all points you mentionned:

There is a dedicated thread for the S9

No reason to talk about S9 on the Whipster thread

...............;

...........;

Just tell your colleague catfan, to do so, and everybody will be happy

 

[ita 16]

Catfun wrote a list of catflying, including S9, and you've took the opportunity to shoot shit on this, the concept is very different , the opposit of what you said

 

[Speng]

Why can't you wankers spell anything right? It's a "Whisper".

Is the designer a Solent Uni prof? If so he must be new-ish as I don't recognize the name but it seems obvious he is with all the Solent stickers on it.

The structural concept is quite interesting as it does make the boat much stiffer but not demountable (but who does that once the boat's shipped anyway?)

The 7'10" beam is a bit weird is that so the T foils will be in the trailerable width rules although I can't see driving on the roads with the foils in the boat.

So on a T-foil boat like this i assume that upwind you try to stay as low as possible so most of the vertical foil is in the water to resist leeway. Or do you try to Veal heel it? and does the weather foil add to the RM or not?

 

[Doug Lord]

Dual independent wands can generate loads of RM with downforce from the windward foil. But on this boat the crew is on trapezes and most likely wouldn't require much downforce from the windward foil-at least not as much as on a Rave where the crew can't move side to side.

 

[Catnewbie]

Speng,

You're right, the structural concept is interesting, but, probably we didn't notice the same thing

I like very much cross-beams /hulls "integration", but what I like the most is the boat "backbone"

Did you notice something similar?

Cheers

 

[Speng]

Speng,

You're right, the structural concept is interesting, but, probably we didn't notice the same thing

I like very much cross-beams /hulls "integration", but what I like the most is the boat "backbone"

Did you notice something similar?

Cheers

I don't see the backbone that you're talking about. Usually I take that to mean a longitudinal structure connecting the two crossbeams that extends for ward to take the forestay but all I see on this boat is your typical prod.

Dual independent wands can generate loads of RM with downforce from the windward foil. But on this boat the crew is on trapezes and most likely wouldn't require much downforce from the windward foil-at least not as much as on a Rave where the crew can't move side to side.

what other than running out of flap deflection would limit that?

 

[Doug Lord]

Speng,

You're right, the structural concept is interesting, but, probably we didn't notice the same thing

I like very much cross-beams /hulls "integration", but what I like the most is the boat "backbone"

Did you notice something similar?

Cheers

I don't see the backbone that you're talking about. Usually I take that to mean a longitudinal structure connecting the two crossbeams that extends for ward to take the forestay but all I see on this boat is your typical prod.

Dual independent wands can generate loads of RM with downforce from the windward foil. But on this boat the crew is on trapezes and most likely wouldn't require much downforce from the windward foil-at least not as much as on a Rave where the crew can't move side to side.

what other than running out of flap deflection would limit that?

The two guys on the trapezes limit the maximum RM required from the foils-at least thats a limiting factor in how much downforce is generated by the windward foil-maybe coupled with a windspeed and/or speed limit. On a Rave the limit is speed and the consequences are structural-if you exceed "X" speed the force generated by the lee and windward foil can break the crossbeam.

 

[Speng]

I dunno what you're talking about... the situation between the cat and the tri are the same except the tris crew weight contributes 0 RM while the cats contributes their fully trapped out value. Think about a regular cat: the max RM is the crew trapped out, now add the controllable Tfoils which can add more RM as long as the weather foil can pull down. I'm not sure how to figure out max RM without using a VPP but it will be greater than the non foiler.

 

[Doug Lord]

Actually, the situation between the two is quite different: the tri is about 19' from center of foil to center of foil and the center to center on the cat foils is under 8'(for the same length boat). What that means is that if the cat were to develop RM using the foils there would be a big cost in drag. The beam on the tri unloads the foils. In other words, the cat probably needs to depower when the foils start developing RM.

Max RM for a boat using foils for righting moment is limited by the structural strength of the boat.