18' Whisper Production Foiling Cat

Doug Lord

Super Anarchist
11,483
21
Cocoa Beach, FL
A Class cat is 75kg/ 165lb. This thing is 2 feet longer but with crossarms molded in. I'd bet its possible but seeing if this can be done in production will be interesting.

 

SimonN

Super Anarchist
10,533
755
Sydney ex London
A Class cat is 75kg/ 165lb. This thing is 2 feet longer but with crossarms molded in. I'd bet its possible but seeing if this can be done in production will be interesting.
Doug

I don't know where you are getting your data, but it is very wrong.

But first, please don't give state rules as if they are proof of facts. The A Class minimum weight is 75kgs but all the recently built boats that I know of have come in between 78 and 82 kgs. The new foils are adding about 1.5 kgs and the boats are having to be built stronger to take the loads. A few builders have come unstuck with boats delaminating due to these extra loads.

As for the Whisper, according to the builder and their website, it is shorter than an A (by only 90mm) and is the same width. Your information is clearly wrong. I suspect you didn't bother to consider that you were using a measurement including the bowsprit which, as you will see below, isn't even included in the weight)

Next, the builder claims that the platform weight is 78kgs, without the foils. You need to add to that the weight of a mast, boom, bowsprit, kite and jib. The mast would need to be heavier than an A to take the loads of 2 people on the wire plus the kite (I know an A Class mast would fold with that load). Then you add the foils. I would be very surprised if the whole package weighed any less than 95kgs and probably closer to 100kgs.

(Source: http://whiteformula.com/WhiteFormula_UK/Whisper.html )

ita16 is pretty well spot on with his view that 80kgs all up weight would be impossible. Shows the difference between real life experience and misinterpreting things off the web.

 
SimonN, I am not sure why you would legitimise any thing from DL with comment from someone of your standing in the A world. Put him on ignore and all of a sudden the world makes sense but maybe you enjoy self flagulation?

 

Doug Lord

Super Anarchist
11,483
21
Cocoa Beach, FL
SOLENT WHISPER SPECIFICATIONS

LOA: (incl bowsprit) 6.2m

Beam: 2.3m

Foil length: 1.0m

Max ride height: 800mm

Displacement: 80kg

Crew weight: 150kg

Mainsail: 12.9sq m

Jib: 3.2sq m

Spi: 13.5sq m

See http://uk.boats.com/reviews/boats/solent-whisper-foiling-cat-glides-southampton/
I got my info from above.There have been three published lengths for the Whisper-17.75', 19.5' and 20.3.

Simon, I used LOA and that means length over all since you apparently don't know. The last time I went to the Whisper site it was down so I relied on other information. Note that the weight in Nacramans post and in the Kata post is 78-80kg with no qualifications.

And here: http://www.katamaranspecialisten.se/product_info.php?cPath=23&products_id=811&osCsid=27be627h0n5qu6s2tg1a9d9423

LOA: 6,2m, WLL: 4,2m, Plattform weight; 39kg,

All up weight; 78kg Beam: 2,4m,

Take off Speed: 5kn, Main sail: 12,6 kvm,

Jib; 3 kvm, Spinnaker; 14 kvm, Designer: Ron Price

 
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Doug Lord

Super Anarchist
11,483
21
Cocoa Beach, FL
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Doug Lord

Super Anarchist
11,483
21
Cocoa Beach, FL
A Class cat is 75kg/ 165lb. This thing is 2 feet longer but with crossarms molded in. I'd bet its possible but seeing if this can be done in production will be interesting.
Doug

I don't know where you are getting your data, but it is very wrong.

But first, please don't give state rules as if they are proof of facts. The A Class minimum weight is 75kgs but all the recently built boats that I know of have come in between 78 and 82 kgs. The new foils are adding about 1.5 kgs and the boats are having to be built stronger to take the loads. A few builders have come unstuck with boats delaminating due to these extra loads.

As for the Whisper, according to the builder and their website, it is shorter than an A (by only 90mm) and is the same width. Your information is clearly wrong. I suspect you didn't bother to consider that you were using a measurement including the bowsprit which, as you will see below, isn't even included in the weight)

Next, the builder claims that the platform weight is 78kgs, without the foils. You need to add to that the weight of a mast, boom, bowsprit, kite and jib. The mast would need to be heavier than an A to take the loads of 2 people on the wire plus the kite (I know an A Class mast would fold with that load). Then you add the foils. I would be very surprised if the whole package weighed any less than 95kgs and probably closer to 100kgs.

(Source: http://whiteformula.com/WhiteFormula_UK/Whisper.html )

ita16 is pretty well spot on with his view that 80kgs all up weight would be impossible. Shows the difference between real life experience and misinterpreting things off the web.
This is another of your half-ass, careless fuck-ups: you didn't even read my post with the metric conversions where it clearly states that LOA included the bowsprit*. You were right about the weight -and I suspected as much- but couldn't find anything to back that up until this morning when I went to the various dealer sites and found the all up weight I mentioned in my previous post. I've done everything possible to get the facts on this boat. Just a short while ago the Whites site was down-it hasn't been easy. You contributed absolutely nothing with your bullshit!!!!

*See the copy of that post below(post 108) :

===========

As to A Class WEIGHT ,I went to the DNA website where it said the weight of a new boat including mast and sail was UNDER 75kg and double checked the Class Association website. http://dnacat.blogspot.com/p/product-specs-and-intro-about-dna.html

 
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Doug Lord

Super Anarchist
11,483
21
Cocoa Beach, FL
SOLENT WHISPER SPECIFICATIONS

LOA: (incl bowsprit) 6.2m

Beam: 2.3m

Foil length: 1.0m

Max ride height: 800mm

Displacement: 80kg

Crew weight: 150kg

Mainsail: 12.9sq m

Jib: 3.2sq m

Spi: 13.5sq m

See http://uk.boats.com/reviews/boats/solent-whisper-foiling-cat-glides-southampton/
Of all the new foilers if I was going to buy one this would be it. But I'll build the Fire Arrow instead......

Metric converted by me:

SOLENT WHISPER SPECIFICATIONS:
LOA: (incl bowsprit) 6.2m/20.34'

--

Beam: 2.3m/7.5'

--

Foil length: 1.0m/3.28'

--

Max ride height: 800mm/2.6'

--

Weight: 80kg/176lb.

--

Crew weight: 150kg/330lb

--

Upwind SA:173sq.ft.

--

Mainsail: 12.9sq m/138.8sq.ft

--

Jib: 3.2sq m/34.4 sq.ft

--

Spi: 13.5sq m/145 sq.ft
The above info was found by NacramanUK here: http://uk.boats.com/reviews/solent-whisper-foiling-cat-glides-southampton/and used by me because the last time I checked the Whites site was down!

 
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Doug Lord

Super Anarchist
11,483
21
Cocoa Beach, FL
Wasn't it answered over a year ago?

In fact, according to her designer, keeping both the wings submerged is the key to her stability and performance. On take-off both foils provide lift but as soon as one foil is more heavily loaded than the other, the lazy one acts as a counter force, keeping the angle of heel in check.
http://uk.boats.com/reviews/solent-whisper-foiling-cat-glides-southampton/

There must be a setting change on the windward foil for that to occur, the video hints at 7° of movement for foil angle, which is a lot when there is also a flap. It will be interesting to see it in steep waves where it's not possible to keep both main foils in the water all the time, particularly with trailing wands. It looks good in flat water, an encouraging start.
Thanks to Rob G above and the new facebook video, we now know for sure that the dual independent wands on the Whisper are set up to be able to create RM if that becomes necessary. And that involves downforce on the windward foil! And, as best I can tell, they've tested it by sailing the boat singlehanded......

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1642595389361526

 
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Raz'r

Super Anarchist
63,140
5,851
De Nile
Doug, if you'd actually get out in the real world, instead of searching websites, you might actually learn something.

 

Board skiff

Super Anarchist
1,606
672
I don't know what it is made from but I believe the Whisperhull core is only 3mm thick. Apparently it is as strong as 12mm ply.

 

RobG

Super Anarchist
2,875
749
I don't know what it is made from but I believe the Whisperhull core is only 3mm thick. Apparently it is as strong as 12mm ply.
When posting statements like that, a reference is essential. Otherwise it's just troll bait.

If I hit 12 mm ply as hard as I can with a hammer, I might dent it a little. I'm pretty sure if I do the same to the hull of the Solent Whisper it will get a large hole. So perhaps whatever reference you have was referring to a particular aspect of the strength of 12 mm ply, and that should be mentioned too.

 

SimonN

Super Anarchist
10,533
755
Sydney ex London
Sorry, I didn't put any more because I don't know any more. I don't know whether it was stiffness, compressive strength, shear, or whatever. My reference is talking to a man who Rob White builds a lot of boats for (but not the Whisper). Maybe something like this http://www.3d-core.com/en/3d-core/3d-core-info.html??
I looked at 3d-core for a project a while ago and it is certainly interesting stuff. You can get some very impressive results on pretty thin laminates. However, for true lightweight construction, the finished laminate really is too heavy.If you have some weight to play with, it seems that it will give you better results than more conventional sandwich materials. The problem is that it gains much of its strength from resin filling the voids between the honeycomb foam, joining the laminates either side of the foam, creating a fairly dense honeycomb network of "webs" between the laminates. It means that, in reality, you are using a sandwich material that is approaching something like 250kgs per cubic metre (conventional foam is around 80 and nomex 30). So, for an A Class, you simply cannot build the boat light enough using this core material. However, with the weight of the Whisper, you probably can build a very tough boat using this.

The product has some real advantages if used with resin infusion as the resin can easily flow "through" the sandwich material and helps produce a far better wetted out laminate. And although i haven't personally used it, due to its properties, there areclaims of significant financial savings on consumables. It's also seems to be very cost effective for the strength - if you have the weight to play with, this seems to be a way to produce a stronger boat cheaper.

And just for RobG, depending on the size of your hammer, I think you might be rather surprised at how well a laminate with this core does perform - maybe not quiet as good as 12mm ply, but significantly better than most sandwich panels we are used to.

 

SimonN

Super Anarchist
10,533
755
Sydney ex London
It certainly looks promising. I think print through of the resin honeycomb can be an issue though.
They claim exactly the opposite. Normally, with nomex or similar honeycomb products, it is the void that causes the problem because the laminate effectively slightly sinks into the void. However, because there is foam in the "void", you keep a constant surface.

Unfortunately, the boats I am involved in push the weight situation so hard that this product wouldn't work but I wonder how it would go in high performance boats where building to weight wasn't such an issue. I hope i get the chance to see it in action soon.

 

NacramanUK

Member
377
1
It certainly looks promising. I think print through of the resin honeycomb can be an issue though.
They claim exactly the opposite. Normally, with nomex or similar honeycomb products, it is the void that causes the problem because the laminate effectively slightly sinks into the void. However, because there is foam in the "void", you keep a constant surface.

Unfortunately, the boats I am involved in push the weight situation so hard that this product wouldn't work but I wonder how it would go in high performance boats where building to weight wasn't such an issue. I hope i get the chance to see it in action soon.
Hi Simon,

Tried to pm you about the Whisper, but when I tried to send it wouldn't allow me to......is your mailbox full?

 


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