2 stroke vs 4

[Ajax]

I bet finding parts for an electric motor will be expensive to impossible.

I agree that the electric propulsion does not fit all use cases, especially serious cruising where you're anchored miles out from shore or need to make broad circuits while exploring.

The comment about electric motor parts really isn't a concern. The whole point of electric motors is that they are far simpler and far more reliable and robust than reciprocating petrol engines. A battery failure is more likely and Amazon ships worldwide. In my opinion based on input in the "Torqueedo coming of age" thread, Torqueedos are not reliable and prone to software faults that are not user correctable at sea. This is why I'm opting for an ordinary "dumb" trolling motor with a lithium battery. Trolling motors are common and can be found used for dirt cheap in many places. No one replaces or repairs a 45lb thrust trolling motor, they chuck it and find another one.

The trade off of Torqueedo vs Trolling Motor is that the Torqueedo Travel is 70lbs of thrust, so nearly double and it's all modular and tidy whereas the trolling motor setup is typically 35-45lbs of thrust and isn't nearly as refined. The Torqueedo Travel battery is 915 watt-hours where as the 100ah Lithium battery is 2.56 kilowatt-hours.

If I were world cruising on a large boat in very remote places, I'd have a large propane or gasoline powered dinghy. For the bay and coastal cruising I do, an electric tender is great.

 

[KramN]

4 stroke propane / infaltable for us until we get around to building something that can row and sail.

 

[Israel Hands]

Do you think anyone has ever put a good 2-stroke engine in a dumpster? They get sold on to other people who use them instead of you.

Exactly. My new-to-me cruiser came with a RIB and a Merc 9.9 2-stroke that the PO deemed ideal for extended cruising. Light, easy to operate, repairable in much of the world. In the past year I've burned less than a gallon of gas running it. Why should I spend $3,000 at this point? If I sell it, the next owner will probably burn more fuel with it than I will, before I get to the point of replacing it.

 

[Ajax]

4 stroke propane / infaltable for us until we get around to building something that can row and sail.

I like propane because again, it reduces the number of fuels a boat has to carry. When you go to fill up your galley bottle, you take your dinghy propane bottle with you. Also, you can buy valve kits that would allow you to fill a small bottle for your dinghy from your galley bottle.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

I don't have personal experience with it but I have observed that the propane outboard reliability seems to be low. Shame, really, bc it is a good idea

 

[kent_island_sailor]

I don't have personal experience with it but I have observed that the propane outboard reliability seems to be low. Shame, really, bc it is a good idea

It is not because of the propane, it is because the propane outboards were a crappy Chinese knockoff that wouldn't be all that good running on gasoline either.

 

[Ajax]

I don't have personal experience with it but I have observed that the propane outboard reliability seems to be low. Shame, really, bc it is a good idea

Most of what I read about the Lehr outboards was shitty plastic shifter pieces breaking. Were there reports of the actual engines being shitty?

 

[Max Rockatansky]

The ones I've seen have been LEHR and TOHATSU. I just see them in the marina shop or watch the owners paddling. I don't know why, I admit

 

[kent_island_sailor]

The whole dinghy and engine thing is a great example of mission-creep. When I had a Dyer with oars for a dinghy, I never even thought about going all that far.
Now I can and have gone to a town 15 miles away to get something. It is hard to go backwards, so you eventually end up looking at something that costs more than the boat that is towing it

 

[nofacey]

2 vs 4 stroke - depends where you’re headed off to. Cruising truly remote portions of the world, get a Yamaha 2 stroke - they’re common in remote areas because they RUN. and run and run.
- 4 strokes are better on fuel & pollute less, but are wayyy more susceptible to dirty fuel/water
- I’ve never seen an electric OB survive for more than 2 years of real use.

 

[MaxDog]

The comment about electric motor parts really isn't a concern. The whole point of electric motors is that they are far simpler and far more reliable and robust than reciprocating petrol engines. A battery failure is more likely and Amazon ships worldwide.

I agree that electric motors are generally robust, but the idea that "Amazon ships worldwide" so no need to worry is really naive. When you are cruising islands getting anything that isn't already on the island is, at best, difficult, costly, and time consuming. Bring your own spares or use what the natives use. Getting an Amazon shipment in the Bahamas or Caribbean islands can easily take a month, not including the time it sits in customs.

 

[kent_island_sailor]

I agree that electric motors are generally robust, but the idea that "Amazon ships worldwide" so no need to worry is really naive. When you are cruising islands getting anything that isn't already on the island is, at best, difficult, costly, and time consuming. Bring your own spares or use what the natives use. Getting an Amazon shipment in the Bahamas or Caribbean islands can easily take a month, not including the time it sits in customs.

Beat me to it - Amazon does NOT ship worldwide, at least not overnight. I spend a lot of time in the Bahamas and getting something like batteries or milk can be challenge, let alone parts for electronic motor controllers!

 

[Glenoid]

Hello! We cruise in the PNW but am planning to go further afield in the next year or so and need a new outboard on the dinghy. Looking at pros/cons for 2 stroke versus 4. The make will probably be Tohatsu/Nissan/Mercury and looking for 5-9 hp. Price/condition are really the only factors aside from 2 vs 4. The lower weight is attractive for 2 strokes as for the same 60lbs weight we could get an 8hp in place of a 4 or 5hp 4 stroke.

For the cruisers out there - has one stood out over the other as being easier to fix while cruising outside of the US? Is it particularly annoying dealing with mixed fuel?

And emissions. It seems well known that 2 strokes produce more (quantity) harmful emissions, due to mixed fuel so oil is being burnt/expelled & also the frequency gas is added in the fuel cycle. This is true for large outboards I'm obviously convinced but it so bad for these little 6hp outboards as well? Or do they turn out to be about the same? Can't find any distinctions online.

Thanks for your input!

I'm here in the Northwest as well. There are a few questions you should answer for yourself prior to the outboard purchase, such as how much hp you really need, how fast you want to go, and how much weight you are willing to wrestle around. You get it on the 2-stroke/4-stroke quandry for the most part, but you also may want to consider 2 vs 4-stroke noise. My 2-hp Suzuki 2-stroke is louder than my 7.5hp Honda 4-stroke. The 2hp is very light and fits in a lazarette just fine, not so with the Honda. the Honda will softly plane our 14-foot Lund skiff, the Suzuki gets us home in a pinch.

You did not describe your dinghy, but the trend around here has been toward inflatables. I use an El Toro. The larger 4-strokes now have generators to charge batteries, which you could use in a pinch to charge the battery on the big boat, although they don't put out a lot of amps. You'll have to make your own peace with the emission question, but 2-strokes have improved a bit over the years, and a dinghy's projected use is rather limited in total hours, if you seek rationalization.

Have you considered electric motors? Could fit your needs.

One caveat regarding the smaller outboards: not all have a neutral or reverse feature, making them potential sources of severe injury.

For reliability and ease of service, I love my Hondas, and I own three; a 7.5, a 10 and a 15. Get a shop manual and find a parts source online. If I can service and fix these, anybody can. Plan on changing impellers, thermostats, oil and gear lube, and flush after salt use well, and you should get great service. The Yamaha line is perhaps even held in higher regard than the Honda, but both work well.

For cost, if you know what you want, and can tell what you are buying, the used market can be a great product source. Beware of unwittingly buying a stolen motor: they are all around us.

As side notes, but related to your recreation: in Washington powered boats must be registered. You can use a motorized tender between ship and shore without registration (unless they have changed the law), but if you're out fishing in your motorized dinghy without registration numbers, you can be cited. We also have the boater operator's safety card requirement in Washington, so understand that rule before you turn your kids loose in the dinghy unsupervised. And the latest is the requirement to have the kill-switch lanyard attached to the helmsman. that makes it so hard to pee.

Good luck with your adventure. Gleno

 

[Israel Hands]

I'm here in the Northwest as well. There are a few questions you should answer for yourself prior to the outboard purchase, such as how much hp you really need, how fast you want to go, and how much weight you are willing to wrestle around. You get it on the 2-stroke/4-stroke quandry for the most part, but you also may want to consider 2 vs 4-stroke noise. My 2-hp Suzuki 2-stroke is louder than my 7.5hp Honda 4-stroke. The 2hp is very light and fits in a lazarette just fine, not so with the Honda. the Honda will softly plane our 14-foot Lund skiff, the Suzuki gets us home in a pinch.

You did not describe your dinghy, but the trend around here has been toward inflatables. I use an El Toro. The larger 4-strokes now have generators to charge batteries, which you could use in a pinch to charge the battery on the big boat, although they don't put out a lot of amps. You'll have to make your own peace with the emission question, but 2-strokes have improved a bit over the years, and a dinghy's projected use is rather limited in total hours, if you seek rationalization.

Have you considered electric motors? Could fit your needs.

One caveat regarding the smaller outboards: not all have a neutral or reverse feature, making them potential sources of severe injury.

For reliability and ease of service, I love my Hondas, and I own three; a 7.5, a 10 and a 15. Get a shop manual and find a parts source online. If I can service and fix these, anybody can. Plan on changing impellers, thermostats, oil and gear lube, and flush after salt use well, and you should get great service. The Yamaha line is perhaps even held in higher regard than the Honda, but both work well.

For cost, if you know what you want, and can tell what you are buying, the used market can be a great product source. Beware of unwittingly buying a stolen motor: they are all around us.

As side notes, but related to your recreation: in Washington powered boats must be registered. You can use a motorized tender between ship and shore without registration (unless they have changed the law), but if you're out fishing in your motorized dinghy without registration numbers, you can be cited. We also have the boater operator's safety card requirement in Washington, so understand that rule before you turn your kids loose in the dinghy unsupervised. And the latest is the requirement to have the kill-switch lanyard attached to the helmsman. that makes it so hard to pee.

Good luck with your adventure. Gleno

How dare you provide such a thorough, even-handed answer to the OP. This group still has axes to grind and scores to settle about 2-strokes vs turds and the like!

 

[kent_island_sailor]

2 vs 4 stroke - depends where you’re headed off to. Cruising truly remote portions of the world, get a Yamaha 2 stroke - they’re common in remote areas because they RUN. and run and run.
- 4 strokes are better on fuel & pollute less, but are wayyy more susceptible to dirty fuel/water
- I’ve never seen an electric OB survive for more than 2 years of real use.

I am 100% sure I could sell my 15 HP 2-stroke Yamaha in the fall to a Bahamas-bound cruiser in about a day. No one gives me dirty looks when they see it, but some offer to buy it

 

[kent_island_sailor]

Another thing - the dinghy fuel calculation is a bit different with a diesel main engine. My main engine is gas powered too, so extra dinghy gas can go into the mother ship instead of sitting around until it goes bad.
Re electric dinghies - I wonder if cheap lithium batteries have changed this calculation? 24 volt 85 pound thrust trolling motors are on Amazon for around $200, one could afford to buy two of them in case on breaks. If all I ever needed to do was get from the mooring to shore and back, it might be a real nice solution.

 

[Touch of Grey]

Hello! We cruise in the PNW but am planning to go further afield in the next year or so and need a new outboard on the dinghy. Looking at pros/cons for 2 stroke versus 4. The make will probably be Tohatsu/Nissan/Mercury and looking for 5-9 hp. Price/condition are really the only factors aside from 2 vs 4. The lower weight is attractive for 2 strokes as for the same 60lbs weight we could get an 8hp in place of a 4 or 5hp 4 stroke.

For the cruisers out there - has one stood out over the other as being easier to fix while cruising outside of the US? Is it particularly annoying dealing with mixed fuel?

And emissions. It seems well known that 2 strokes produce more (quantity) harmful emissions, due to mixed fuel so oil is being burnt/expelled & also the frequency gas is added in the fuel cycle. This is true for large outboards I'm obviously convinced but it so bad for these little 6hp outboards as well? Or do they turn out to be about the same? Can't find any distinctions online.

Thanks for your input!

In my "fleet" I have a 2 hp Mercury 2 stroke and a 3.5hp 4 stroke, a 20 Yamaha 2 stroke, 40hp Honda 4-stroke and 90hp Yamaha 2-stroke. The 4-strokes are heavier per Hp, and run quieter and smoother. 2-stroke mixing is no big deal, but the pollution (and smell) is an issue. The 2hp or 3.5 won't plane even my 8' Zodiac, but the 20hp Yamaha on a small skiff is the absolute limit of what I can move by myself and I curse the day. On our 41' cruising boat we don't have davits, so the lighter motor is appreciated. If I had davits I'd go with the 4-stroke, 6-10hp, and only remove on passage.

 

[lom]

I like propane because again, it reduces the number of fuels a boat has to carry. When you go to fill up your galley bottle, you take your dinghy propane bottle with you. Also, you can buy valve kits that would allow you to fill a small bottle for your dinghy from your galley bottle.

This initially was really intriguing but as we met more and more people with them we got them impression they can be semi bothersome. We are plausibly ditching propane onboard next year also so us personally, it won't necessarily be a ditching of a fuel. If you're using one now, how many HP is it and how far can you go on one of those green one pounders if you know?

 

[lom]

The whole dinghy and engine thing is a great example of mission-creep. When I had a Dyer with oars for a dinghy, I never even thought about going all that far.
Now I can and have gone to a town 15 miles away to get something. It is hard to go backwards, so you eventually end up looking at something that costs more than the boat that is towing it
View attachment 536482

That makes 110% sense. This is part of the reason we aren't looking to upgrade our currently functional but not too sturdy WestMarine soft bottom dinghy. If it could take a heavier larger HP motor I know we'd be tempted. We are thinking the move is engine, deal with the flimsy dink, then when it disintegrates in a year go for a nicer one but at this point the engine will be good so we will keep a balance haha

 

[lom]

If cruising to any degree, one will find that the very low powered propulsion devices will become problematic.

Not all harbors are nearby, calm and have provision near. And some people spearfish and explore which can take miles of distance. And catch crap weather or just plain winter trades.

It was my experience that the 8hp would not get on plane if we had a load. That made for some let’s say less than optimal forays.

F.ex: Caught a squall coming back to the boat one day, that would have been frankly nightmarish if we had been carrying a provision load.

Preferred anchorages would by necessity not be remote, or else bound to take the mothership in at great inconvenience, and two bigger diesels chugging away. I have no trouble finding 2-stroke oil, but I bet finding parts for an electric motor will be expensive to impossible. For the weight, no electric that I know of will have the ass to get me through weather.

The general wisdom seems to be ‘get the biggest dinghy you can,’ but I think I’ve found my best happy medium. Bear in mind, people on islands use outboards, you know. YMMV

View attachment 536460

This makes a lot of sense and sort of what initiated the question. Ideally we like the clean, simple and less explosive electric option but we do plan to go further afield and want to have a tool set for more jobs or locations than just our immediate surroundings. It'd be a bummer to anchor 3 miles from some spot we end up missing because the last 1% of the journey we had no such means of making!