2 stroke vs 4

Autonomous

Turgid Member
4,247
1,424
PNW
You do have a point about the wholesale hypocrisy.
The shrillest eco shamers remind me of religious evangelists.
 

guerdon

Anarchist
If you have a smoker run Castrol, oil it's plant based [the caster bean] you can tell the enviros that your are reducing mosquitos while saving petrol. I used it with my SAAB and my Seagull.
 

Grizz

Beats the crap out of me
504
222
Northport, NY
I still have several cases of Castrol two-stroke oil left over from my Saab. My wife wants to know why the hell we still have them. I have no good answer.
 

El Borracho

Verified User
6,664
2,642
Pacific Rim
If you have a smoker run Castrol, oil it's plant based [the caster bean] you can tell the enviros that your are reducing mosquitos while saving petrol. I used it with my SAAB and my Seagull.
Castrol contains as much castor oil as Coca-Cola contains cocaine. Essentially none. Maybe a hundred years ago it did. Castrol is mineral petroleum like any other oil.
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,218
5,136
Kent Island!
Castrol contains as much castor oil as Coca-Cola contains cocaine. Essentially none. Maybe a hundred years ago it did. Castrol is mineral petroleum like any other oil.
I was wondering about that. I had to buy castor oil from the drug store when I was experimenting with a methanol fueled motorcycle, it has been a long time since that stuff was sold for lube oil!
 

Priscilla

Super Anarchist
4,285
2,895
‘If you run a new 5 HP four-stroke outboard for one hour, you produce the same amount of nitrogen oxide and hydrocarbon pollution as if you were driving 38 new cars at 95kmh for the same length of time.”
 

kent_island_sailor

Super Anarchist
27,218
5,136
Kent Island!
‘If you run a new 5 HP four-stroke outboard for one hour, you produce the same amount of nitrogen oxide and hydrocarbon pollution as if you were driving 38 new cars at 95kmh for the same length of time.”
In other news, a 1965 Mustang NOT RUNNING, just sitting there, pollutes more than a modern Mustang driving down the highway.
 
I don't think anyone has been overly preachy on here. It always good to put things in perspective, but that doesn't mean I would strive to be negligent if I had the option not too. Budget, available resources etc all drive the choice. I have the unfortunate task of keeping very old inefficient commercial vessels active. I absolutely would love to replace with greener alternatives because it would make massive economical sense, and I spend hrs all the time trying to figure out how. It's a very complicated issue in the US for many reasons but I keep at it. For me personally getting a hernia or very possibly eating shit on deck and the following injury due to the physical weight of the outboard is probably my main decision point of if I went one way or the other. That said I'm not going to split hairs on who does what, I hope they think about how and why but that's all you can do. The only thing I think everyone can agree on is working on outboards sucks regardless of the type. The kid who did our rudder stopped by in PT last weekend in one of RB's Uber rowing boats. I think it was ahead of the current on spite alone. Some day that will be the mode of transportation with the schedule and mindset to match, I hope.
 
It's a pretty interesting conversation talking to long term cruisers about outboards. Have a few friends who did 10-15 circumnavigations. Part with and part without a outboard. It ends up changing everything, these are not engineless poop in a bucket weirdos. I always coveted being able to disconnect enough to get to the point where a rowing sailing dingy was enough, almost pulled the trigger in Bocas, but we were never able to get down to that speed. Everyone we met, who were doing it seemed to be in a pretty good place. It's like the outboard is the last thread connecting you to the rat race.
 

Russell Brown

Super Anarchist
1,687
1,295
Port Townsend WA
It's a pretty interesting conversation talking to long term cruisers about outboards. Have a few friends who did 10-15 circumnavigations. Part with and part without a outboard. It ends up changing everything, these are not engineless poop in a bucket weirdos. I always coveted being able to disconnect enough to get to the point where a rowing sailing dingy was enough, almost pulled the trigger in Bocas, but we were never able to get down to that speed. Everyone we met, who were doing it seemed to be in a pretty good place. It's like the outboard is the last thread connecting you to the rat race.
I was going to click "like", but that wouldn't cover it. You so well voiced something that I deeply believe; that rushing around doesn't create happiness.
I did a Pacific crossing with a good nesting rowing dinghy and everywhere I went, cruisers were interested and envious. That's what started me down the PT 11 path. I also got to see what a struggle inflatables can be. A really good rowing and sailing dinghy has its own struggles, but for some, they just about double the pleasure of cruising.
Little electric outboards can push a displacement hull dinghy at pretty respectable speeds and they sure are easy to handle.
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,062
3,241
Tasmania, Australia
I was going to click "like", but that wouldn't cover it. You so well voiced something that I deeply believe; that rushing around doesn't create happiness.
I did a Pacific crossing with a good nesting rowing dinghy and everywhere I went, cruisers were interested and envious. That's what started me down the PT 11 path. I also got to see what a struggle inflatables can be. A really good rowing and sailing dinghy has its own struggles, but for some, they just about double the pleasure of cruising.
Little electric outboards can push a displacement hull dinghy at pretty respectable speeds and they sure are easy to handle.

Yep, that's what I see in my future as a replacement for the little Honda 2HP unit.

I don't get the 'gotta have 15+HP and plane' mindset for cruising types. We putt along and are quite happy with the speed.

Ditto hard dinks. During my working life we regularly trashed deflatables, I don't have one and I'd be reluctant to get one. Sure, there are advantages to them but still - I don't like them really when it comes down to it.

FKT
 

don54321

New member
27
21
you can still buy new two stokes for pennies, Hangkai makes them, they are all copies of older Tohatsu/Yamaha models and the parts are interchangeable, i own a 4hp ($400) based on the 3.5 Tohatsu upper and a Yamaha 2.5 lower, net weight 13kg or just under 30 pounds, and a 12hp ($1000) and that's a 9.9 Tohatsu copy, 27kg or just under 60 pounds (both sourced on Amazon). They are well made and with regular maintenance they are so far hassle free (about 50 hours on the 4hp and approx 90 hours on the 12hp)

My main motivation was weight, they are used on the small foldable dinghy that lives in my 30 footer (no davits), and i need to be able to hold the engine with one hand while stepping on an unstable small boat, specially the little 4hp is excellent in that regards.

It packs a lot more punch for the weight than you'll ever get out of a 4 stroke (or electric) we can wakeboard behind the 12hp,
This is valuable information. It would be great to be able to identify which Yamaha/Tohatsu models are cloned by Hangkai? If I knew which model to buy to get a "near Tohatsu", and know I could get parts, I would likely do so (if I had the need). I lust over the little 3.5 Tohatsu 2-stroke longshafts. Sooo light compared to my Yamaha 4 hp 4 stroke. If you pull the motor off the transom when sailing, this is the motor to own. I can't say I really have a need though.
 

El Borracho

Verified User
6,664
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Pacific Rim
I don't get the 'gotta have 15+HP and plane' mindset for cruising types. We putt along and are quite happy with the speed.
You would understand if you hung around popular “cruiser” anchorages. Rowing or 2hp does not cut it when there is a 6am shore run for walking the dog. Followed by hourly runs for Starbucks, jogging, laundry, etc. until the teens wake up to begin their shore diversions. Repeats all day and evening. It is a lifestyle thing.
 

hdra

Anarchist
651
145
Yep, that's what I see in my future as a replacement for the little Honda 2HP unit.

I don't get the 'gotta have 15+HP and plane' mindset for cruising types. We putt along and are quite happy with the speed.

Ditto hard dinks. During my working life we regularly trashed deflatables, I don't have one and I'd be reluctant to get one. Sure, there are advantages to them but still - I don't like them really when it comes down to it.

FKT
We recently moved to the Pacific Northwest and got our boat here, and definitely get the appeal of an electric/rowing in this environment - anchorages tend to be very sheltered and close to shore. We borrowed a torqueedo from our boss this summer and it worked great. Having the ability to recharge batteries on shore at home made it pretty easy as well, as we don't have the charging capability on board to do so.
However, before this we spent quite a bit of time in the eastern Caribbean, where the anchorages tend to be more exposed, often with quite a bit of chop, and with longer rides to shore. There are very few folks who are rowing inflatables or using electric motors in those anchorages, and a preponderance of planing ribs since the trips are longer (and much wetter if you can't get on plane or at least get the nose up). We got a 8hp Yamaha Enduro 2 stroke which will get our 10' air-floor dinghy up on plane with 2 adults and 2 dogs, and it was a major improvement from the ancient mariner 6hp four stroke we used to have which couldn't get the boat on plane even with 1 adult and leaked oil constantly to boot. The 2 stroke definitely pollutes less than that piece of crap.
Now that we're back in the States and in the PNW, I find myself rowing the inflatable more and using the outboard less, and finally understand the electric outboard thing. I don't think we ever met a cruiser in the eastern Caribbean who had one and liked it, but in these sheltered waters they make a lot of sense.
 

Fah Kiew Tu

Curmudgeon, First Rank
10,062
3,241
Tasmania, Australia
You would understand if you hung around popular “cruiser” anchorages. Rowing or 2hp does not cut it when there is a 6am shore run for walking the dog. Followed by hourly runs for Starbucks, jogging, laundry, etc. until the teens wake up to begin their shore diversions. Repeats all day and evening. It is a lifestyle thing.

They'd have a fucking long run to the nearest Starbucks where I live. Like, hundreds of nautical miles. One reason among many that very few of the milk run cruisers ever get here I guess. No services except in a very few places.

Anyway, if my use-case required a planing dink - like I was going to do a lot of diving in warm water, I'd get an appropriate dink and motor, no worries. Here & now, a hard dink at displacement speeds works for us. I'm intrigued by the idea of the electric o/b's, just waiting until the Honda dies before I get serious. As I baby that engine, might be a long wait.

We broke a *lot* of deflatables over the years. Tin dinghies are virtually indestructible. But heavy.

FKT
 

Max Rockatansky

holy fuckfarts!
3,814
971
As I have said:
-weight matters. Dink is 65lb, OB is 75lb
-remote anchorages, my preference, demand long trips to provision, sightsee, spearfish(and want to get the fish in the freezer before it rots)
-mechanical simplicity means repair is effected in those same remote places

Horses for courses.
 

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