2015 Sydney to Hobart

[Boatbeard]

QA is losing ground...unless they get a big puff to scoot them over the line Leon is going to slip in to 2nd.

Penalty...doing 720 turns in the harbor with 100+ boats starting in confined water that's also crowded with spectator boats sounds like a disaster in the making. My suggestion would be an amendment to the rules stating that the penalty turns for a foul commited in the harbor may be done ASAP after clearing the seabouy.

Don't have to place your boat in danger to do the penalty, embarrasing another boat will get you another penalty, running into fixed obstructions won't help anyone either - way I see it you do the penalty at the first available safe time - if that means sailing past the next mark in restricted water that gives you enough clear water to do your penalty without interfering with any other racing vessel before completing your mark rounding then you can at least go to the protest room with a reasonable argument. If you don't try at all then you have nothing to do but take the punishment - which is always far harsher than the original penalty.

I think they should make a sin bin box outside the heads. Make them clear the sea mark, head north to the box and cut some laps with a dark cloud hanging over your head and a film crew capturing it all on live TV. Then carry on south while no one talks to the tactician/helm for the next 5 hours or until it gets dark.

Not so silly...

 

[Change]

Thank God or someone that Balance won!

For a boat to win this race that was built for regatta racing [yes it has been beefed up] as opposed to others she beat that are built for ocean racing is well deserved.

QA winning would have put yacht racing back 30 years plus!. Please also note QA's hull is lighter than a standard boat, the cabin/deck is not a S&S mould, it is lighter and shorter. The rig is also non standard

 

[Boatbeard]

The rule 44.2 for penalty turns is quite clear:

After getting well clear of other boats as soon after the incident as possible, a boat takes a One-Turn or Two-Turns Penalty by promptly making the required number of turns in the same direction, each turn including one tack and one gybe.

Getting well clear as soon as possible does not suggest sailing around a few marks. In the situation described, just after the start, one must turn back, maneuver through the other boats and perform one's turns, which is no larger a challenge than if one were OCS. If that is beyond the skipper's ability then perhaps the regatta is beyond the skipper's ability?

The 80 odd boats from two other start lines swarming the course means no matter who you are you will not be getting well clear of other boats trying to go back down the funnel, just end up fucking over a heap of smaller boats either by sucking out their wind, or forcing them to avoid... Any boat charging back down on top of the fleet will probably cause absolute mayhem. OCS you have a minute or so to duck back unless you are pinned - and it has been frightening to see anyone try that in the past.

 

[tomasis]

Thank God or someone that Balance won!

For a boat to win this race that was built for regatta racing [yes it has been beefed up] as opposed to others she beat that are built for ocean racing is well deserved.

QA winning would have put yacht racing back 30 years plus!. Please also note QA's hull is lighter than a standard boat, the cabin/deck is not a S&S mould, it is lighter and shorter. The rig is also non standard

Do you mean the rating/handicap of QA is not correct?

 

[jonah]

The rule 44.2 for penalty turns is quite clear:

After getting well clear of other boats as soon after the incident as possible, a boat takes a One-Turn or Two-Turns Penalty by promptly making the required number of turns in the same direction, each turn including one tack and one gybe.

Getting well clear as soon as possible does not suggest sailing around a few marks. In the situation described, just after the start, one must turn back, maneuver through the other boats and perform one's turns, which is no larger a challenge than if one were OCS. If that is beyond the skipper's ability then perhaps the regatta is beyond the skipper's ability?

I suggest you read the amendments in the SI's. 2 turns applies for infringements in the harbour. The turns must be made before the sea marks. If you pass the sea marks with exonorating yourself then a scoring penalty applies. You ,just also inform JBW of your turns & lodge it on the declaration. Rules need to be read in conjunction with the NOR & SI's. If that is beyond the poster's ability then perhaps the topic is beyond the posters ability

 

[wickham]

Old rule in the sailing instruction was no alternative penalty inside the harbour to discourage stupidity inside the harbour.

That seems to have been changed.

Also bigger issue with rags 52, if you cause serious damage ie other yacht retires you don,t get to exonerate with alternative penalty so should be a dsq.

Where is the jury findings?

 

[SCANAS]

Thank God or someone that Balance won!

For a boat to win this race that was built for regatta racing [yes it has been beefed up] as opposed to others she beat that are built for ocean racing is well deserved.

QA winning would have put yacht racing back 30 years plus!. Please also note QA's hull is lighter than a standard boat, the cabin/deck is not a S&S mould, it is lighter and shorter. The rig is also non standard

QA gets about 5 trophies so they did well. Do they get a Rolex?

3RD IRC OVERALL

2ND IRC DIV 4

1ST ORCI OVERALL

1ST ORCI DIV 3

1ST CORINTHIAN CREW

 

[SCANAS]

Old rule in the sailing instruction was no alternative penalty inside the harbour to discourage stupidity inside the harbour.

That seems to have been changed.

Also bigger issue with rags 52, if you cause serious damage ie other yacht retires you don,t get to exonerate with alternative penalty so should be a dsq.

Where is the jury findings?

Is there a definition about serious damage?

 

[paulewill]

Old rule in the sailing instruction was no alternative penalty inside the harbour to discourage stupidity inside the harbour.

That seems to have been changed.

Also bigger issue with rags 52, if you cause serious damage ie other yacht retires you don,t get to exonerate with alternative penalty so should be a dsq.

Where is the jury findings?

+1

 

[ojfd]

Where is the jury findings?

On the page 2 of the protest form. :lol:

Only PC and parties to the protest have copies. There's no requirement in the Rules to report these to the general public.

 

[craigjv]

re Another Fiasco.. YB tracker and S2H Tracker both showed them crossing the line and in the harbour before Patrice 6, yet the standings keep showing them as still not finished with 0.3nm to go- did they miss a mark or something? Or just a tracker glitch?

 

[jack_sparrow]

....have you just drunk a jug of dumbshit juice Scanas.

There has been some extraordinary skill displayed by some of these guys, it isn't just a lottery and what motivates them ......well maybe you should ask around.

True re skill and motivation but...if Scanas doesn't have a point why have you guys spent three pages microanalysing every weather station up and down the Derwent? BOM doesn't have a skill-o-meter last time I looked.

Are your parents siblings?

 

[huey 2]

Teased machine

Middle Sea Race earlier this year

 

[OW3]

I think the penalty inside the harbour needs to be looked at.

Even being OCS, I reckon there should be a penalty outside the heads or points penalty or time penalty etc. Can you imagine turning back 100ft of supermaxi into 2 starting lines coming towards you, its insane. You are locked into a corridor because of the spectator fleet, so it's not like you can just doodle around off to the side of the course.

 

[ojfd]

Is there a definition about serious damage?

There's nothing in the Rules, but there are some hints in ISAF RRS Q&A's

Q&A 2010-31

Damage means physical harm caused in such a way as to impair the boat’s value, usefulness, or

normal function

 

[SCANAS]

Cheers OJFD

 

[RKoch]

QA is losing ground...unless they get a big puff to scoot them over the line Leon is going to slip in to 2nd.

Penalty...doing 720 turns in the harbor with 100+ boats starting in confined water that's also crowded with spectator boats sounds like a disaster in the making. My suggestion would be an amendment to the rules stating that the penalty turns for a foul commited in the harbor may be done ASAP after clearing the seabouy.

Don't have to place your boat in danger to do the penalty, embarrasing another boat will get you another penalty, running into fixed obstructions won't help anyone either - way I see it you do the penalty at the first available safe time - if that means sailing past the next mark in restricted water that gives you enough clear water to do your penalty without interfering with any other racing vessel before completing your mark rounding then you can at least go to the protest room with a reasonable argument. If you don't try at all then you have nothing to do but take the punishment - which is always far harsher than the original penalty.

I agree, but sometimes competitors and (especially) PCs have a view of ASAP meaning immediately.I upset a couple of competitors at a CofC race one time. I snagged the anchor line of the windward mark, which dragged the mark into me and also kicked up the rudder. Boat careened off downwind, I was hanging over the stern unhooking the anchor line and then push the rudder back down before even considering getting out of the way and doing a penalty turn. A couple people couldn't even wait for that 20 or 30 seconds to elapse. Meh. I just think that if it was spelled out in the S2H SIs, then people wouldn't get their panties in a wad. Obviously if there's damage then a different situation gets addressed.

It is the duty of all vessels to avoid a collision at all times - regardless of right of way. Blindly charging at a boat in trouble while screaming at them is just begging to share it fourfold... Damage is contact, contact is addressed by the penalty sections in the SI's. Damage causing a boat to withdraw is external to that process but will be dealt with privately and legally if need be - but it is seperate to racing. If someone is just punting boats off the course all over the place without any care race direction has ample chance to rub them out. Comes back to my first point, why not do the penalty at the earliest opportunity and get on with racing with a clear concience. Asap means just that, as soon as possible/practicable - can't bugger up other boats races to take a penalty, SI's normally state doing a penalty in clear water or off course and if that's a few miles down a narrow channel then so be it. Another 600 and something miles to go after that wasn't there...

There are three separate starting lines, different marks the different classes use to equalize the different starting lines, and a harbor full of spectator boats. You don't seem to grasp the fact that a yacht doing penalty turns for a minor infraction is going to possibly cause a much more serious situation for other yachts, or a spectator boat crowding in for a closer look not expecting a yacht to start turning circles. A 'sin box' (as it was tagged up thread) just outside the seabouy is a logical and safe location for yachts to do their turns for infractions committed inside the harbor.

 

[OW3]

.

Oscar i think you could, out in the Sound just before the first turning mark

Yes, you probably could. But would you really want to?

 

[Cats Rule]

Anyone in Aus selling jpk yachts right now?

Join the queue! The yard is already inundated with orders after 2 Fastnett wins in a row, second hand boats are not hanging around in Europe...

For all the Irc haters just have a look at Gery, 2nd in this, 1st overall in Fastnett 2015, 4th overall and class win in 2013 Fastnett in a different boat. If you sail well you generally feature in the top.

 

[GybeSet]

actually Oscar you are correct in the event of OCS

SIs want you to restart or 30% penalty

that could be hazardous