2018 Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race: The Race Committee has lodged a protest against Wild Oats XI

There hasn't been a hearing on WOXI's lack of AIS transmissions, so saying cheating has been proven is incorrect.  In order to prove it, facts have to be found by a protest committee.

Did all the other boats whose AIS didn't transmit cheat too?  Why aren't you calling them out?  Seems hypocritical to me; though we would like to think that we can hold WOXI to a higher standard given the profile of their program, they still put their foulies on the same way the rest of us do, so unintentional shit can happen to them the same as the other boats who didn't transmit.  

They were cheating if they knew they had to transmit AIS and intentionally did not do so.  If you believe that to be the case, provide some evidence.
That is what I thought.  All we know for sure is the bias of the poster.  It's hard (but not impossible) to imagine a viable explanation that exonerates WOXI but because the protest was never tested we will not know any facts found.  WOXI will be condemned with certainty in the online Court of Sailing Anarchy even though the whole (true?) story is unknown and her crew also never having a chance at vindication in a Protest Hearing.

I was struck by the irony of how some of those here could be so certain of intentional treachery, who indignantly held up the RRS and even named the rules transgressed suddenly, in the same breath, in the middle of a sentence were not longer willing to acknowledge the Rules when they disagreed with their narrative.

I feel a bit bad for WOXI.  They sailed a tough race and demonstrated again how great an all rounder that old boat is.  But for this Line Honours win they will live under a cloud because the issue was not resolved.  

 

LionIsland

Member
371
94
Pittwater
Honestly!! What a crock of shit. You “it was such bad sportsmanship” wankers need to let go of your mummy’s hand one day. 

Like most other sports I don’t give a fig who wins I just like to see good competition and high level skills on display. 

Since when has long distance (especially at night)  racing been about knowing what your competitors are doing or where they are going?

To be up in arms and getting your knickers in a knot as to whether or not a non- tracker  piece of safety-at-sea equipment (the boats have compulsory trackers fitted for the purposes of entertaining the public and possibly safety) seems to me to be a total waste of effort.

Mind you, it’s been a great controversy which like all controversies is great publicity. Eg 2013 AC, last year’s S2H and to be morbidly frank ‘79 fastnet and 98 s2h were all things that brought huge attention from a wider audience than would normally not give two hoots about boating. Without the drama the historical context and the enormity of the event is subdued for most  people.

But anyways, back to your (collective) apparent MR/WOXI hating, one sails according to what one thinks is the quickest way to get there. It’s not a video/ computer game. It’s boats getting to the finish as quick as possible and making decisions based on guessing/ working out the conditions. If they’d gone out the back door you’d be heaping shit on them for that, no doubt.  

Apparently they (WOXI) took a risk of taking a slightly different route to the east (according to the trackers that all could see) which may or may not have given them an advantage.

The other boats had just as much chance to do that or whatever else without following someone else but by making their own decisions. I’m sure up til recently sailors weren’t choosing their routes according to other boats routes. 

What next? Obliged to tell the fleet what sails you’ve hoisted? Or telling them what Mum has served for dinner? 

 

Christian

Super Anarchist
Most folks here have no clue.  Any direct transmissions between yachts concerning anything, including "hey, your AIS is off" is prohibited. Absolutely 100% Wrong as long as it is UNSOLICITED. Super big races like S2H require satellite trackers for media purposes which are only transmitters, not receivers. That is relevant HOW?

The AIS system is primarily a collision avoidance  maritime scheme and Class-B systems normally deployed on pleasure yachts is a boat to boat scheme, only good to 10-15 miles, which is a major plus if your competition is in that range.  Hell,  I've lost sight of my competitors @ 2-5 mile ranges at night;  it's sweet to see them concerning range, their SOG & COG to 0.2kn @ 30° for free.

The *safety* aspect of MOB AIS systems is bogus. That's a pretty stupid statement. In a MOB 'sitch you can activate the AIS MOB within seconds, even if you're not transmitting. Yeah - if you actually notice the fucker going into the piss - otherwise he is fucked unless his AIS MOB also has a DSS that has been linked to the boat's VHF

Odd that the S2H rules require it to be on and transmitting 24/7;  I've not been in a coastal race where that was required and have immediately shut off my AIS on such races so my competition can't see me except by eye.  So S2H required it to be on for the entire race;  fair enough and Wild Oats broke an SI by not doing so.  Flick 'em,  Or maybe a slightly lesser penalty - but at least some penalty is warranted

 

Cal20sailor

Super Anarchist
12,866
3,351
Detroit
Honestly!! What a crock of shit. You “it was such bad sportsmanship” wankers need to let go of your mummy’s hand one day. 

Like most other sports I don’t give a fig who wins I just like to see good competition and high level skills on display. 

Since when has long distance (especially at night)  racing been about knowing what your competitors are doing or where they are going?

To be up in arms and getting your knickers in a knot as to whether or not a non- tracker  piece of safety-at-sea equipment (the boats have compulsory trackers fitted for the purposes of entertaining the public and possibly safety) seems to me to be a total waste of effort.

Mind you, it’s been a great controversy which like all controversies is great publicity. Eg 2013 AC, last year’s S2H and to be morbidly frank ‘79 fastnet and 98 s2h were all things that brought huge attention from a wider audience than would normally not give two hoots about boating. Without the drama the historical context and the enormity of the event is subdued for most  people.

But anyways, back to your (collective) apparent MR/WOXI hating, one sails according to what one thinks is the quickest way to get there. It’s not a video/ computer game. It’s boats getting to the finish as quick as possible and making decisions based on guessing/ working out the conditions. If they’d gone out the back door you’d be heaping shit on them for that, no doubt.  

Apparently they (WOXI) took a risk of taking a slightly different route to the east (according to the trackers that all could see) which may or may not have given them an advantage.

The other boats had just as much chance to do that or whatever else without following someone else but by making their own decisions. I’m sure up til recently sailors weren’t choosing their routes according to other boats routes. 

What next? Obliged to tell the fleet what sails you’ve hoisted? Or telling them what Mum has served for dinner? 
Thank God we (US) don't have to accept you as one of our own, we're full up on dumbshit assholes.  They did not follow the rules!  Slice and dice it anyway that makes you feel like bubba is giving it to you from behind, but they did not follow the rules and should have been tossed, unlike MR's salad that you plan to toss later.  

 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
Honestly!! What a crock of shit. You “it was such bad sportsmanship” wankers need to let go of your mummy’s hand one day. 

Like most other sports I don’t give a fig who wins I just like to see good competition and high level skills on display. 

Since when has long distance (especially at night)  racing been about knowing what your competitors are doing or where they are going?

To be up in arms and getting your knickers in a knot as to whether or not a non- tracker  piece of safety-at-sea equipment (the boats have compulsory trackers fitted for the purposes of entertaining the public and possibly safety) seems to me to be a total waste of effort.effort.....

What next? Obliged to tell the fleet what sails you’ve hoisted? Or telling them what Mum has served for dinner? 
Mate you are a fuckin breath of fresh air.

Who needs rules..bunch of nancy boy, fuckin homo's all probably called Cyril, Bascombe or some other cunt unpronounancible name  I reakon. I'm with you mate.. gun goes off, first home alive and that's it.

BTW do you reakon we should make seatbelts compulsory next year?




 
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All boats who didn’t comply, should retire, yes. 
And what is that number up to now?  What about the boats that dropped out for a couple of hours and then came back on - and didn't even know?  Have you ever used one of these things?  When it comes to consistently reliable they are the opposite of the German Railway system.

I think this has proven that the Race Committee should reconsider processes how AIS technology is integrated into their race instructions.   

 

mad

Super Anarchist
And what is that number up to now?  What about the boats that dropped out for a couple of hours and then came back on - and didn't even know?  Have you ever used one of these things?  When it comes to consistently reliable they are the opposite of the German Railway system.

I think this has proven that the Race Committee should reconsider processes how AIS technology is integrated into their race instructions.   
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46506374

Germany: Train strike hits millions of passengers


Or maybe not. 

 

Moonduster

Super Anarchist
4,823
231
Almost every point on both sides of this thread loses all credibility because the argument is couched in terms of cheating. The question of cheating gets to intent and no one here will ever understand the intent of those involved. Fortunately the RRS are composed and presented in such a manner that intent need never be considered.

Instead of cheating, at issue here is the very different question of non-compliance. The manner of non-compliance is immaterial - sails that won't measure in, missing emergency water rations, oversights on entry forms, broken required equipment, sailing the wrong course - the list goes on and on and on. All that matters is that the SIs, RRS and OSR comprise the requirements and the yachts are each required to comply.

On the question of compliance, the evidence seems to be clear. Yes, a jury hearing would be convenient for all involved. However, it does not matter why the required equipment was not working, only that is did not work.

If we drop the cheating non-sequitur, every argument goes in favor of the 2nd place yacht. Let me repeat that - I'm happy to agree that the winning yacht did not cheat and still believe wholeheartedly that they must RAF.

And yes, if this also implies that a few dozen other yachts must RAF, so be it.

 

Third Reef

Member
120
18
Bass Strait
 The race outcome wasn't decided by an AIS being on or off....Protests are not generally about cheating but rule infringements. Usually these aren't deliberate but then you'd have to go sailing to know that so BJ 's decision not to protest is  OK. Clearly he didn't think it was cheating and neither did any other competitor because no one protested.
I agree with this. What I find  annoying is how pedantic the organisers are with all the pre-race safety preparation and then during and after the race they just say all this stuff is not important. Poor race management and poor leadership IMO.

3R (armchair sailor #2)

 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
I think this has proven that the Race Committee should reconsider processes how AIS technology is integrated into their race instructions.
A couple of bullet points to enlighten the masses with reference to existing RRS and SI??

 
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Cal20sailor

Super Anarchist
12,866
3,351
Detroit
I think this has proven that the Race Committee should reconsider processes how AIS technology is integrated into their race instructions.   
You're about 18 months late.  Absolutely no winners from this outcome. Oats looks stupid/crooked and the race looks neutered.  Shame as it is the premiere ocean race in the world.  New blood seems called for.  I'm 61 and realistically will never sail the race, but for those that do, show respect.  The race is bigger than any boat or any record.

 

BooBoo

Anarchist
670
54
Auckland NZ
Just seen this facebook post from one of the crew on wild oats. 

Saddened by the fact a few of my old mates would have thought we would use our AIS system onboard to our advantage by turning it off during the great race.
The fact is the system got fried when our onboard cameraman went live at the start, we had no idea at all during the race till we finished .
The Wild Oats team is one of the best loyalist teams I have sailed with in my whole sailing career .


 

Kung Faux

New member
33
0
Because they are not dicks, and probably want to get to the bar asap. It's over, no one lodged a valid protest and no one finishing now would care. 

There are rules for protests too. I wish WOXI had done the right thing, and I'm not sure they did but it's up to the competitors to protest if WOXI doesn't retire. And there is no reason they should retire as they have clearly stated that they thought they were transmitting. Richo's statement at the dock is not conclusive because he was asked about a tracker.. not AIS. Investigative journalism is not in that person's future. 

PS- I am happy for the result but no fan of any boat. I thought it was a great race.
So it's up to the competitors to protest, but then if they ever do...they're dicks??..#logical

 

staysail

Super Anarchist
2,131
334
And what is that number up to now?  What about the boats that dropped out for a couple of hours and then came back on - and didn't even know?  Have you ever used one of these things?  When it comes to consistently reliable they are the opposite of the German Railway system.

I think this has proven that the Race Committee should reconsider processes how AIS technology is integrated into their race instructions.   
Have you tried a German train recently!  and yes, it was asking for trouble requiring AIS transmission to be compulsory.  But that is no excuse for walking away with first prize when you know you didn't abide by the rules, even if it was accidental. How desperate does a skipper have to be to do that?

And all these guys blaming other competitors for not protesting! That is really rich.

 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
I think this has proven that the Race Committee should reconsider processes how AIS technology is integrated into their race instructions.  


You're about 18 months late.  Absolutely no winners from this outcome. 
Recondider processes..18 months late..blahblah? What does that all mean? 

You guys type away but actually don't say anything?

 

jack_sparrow

Super Anarchist
37,393
5,094
Just seen this facebook post from one of the crew on wild oats. 

Saddened by the fact a few of my old mates would have thought we would use our AIS system onboard to our advantage by turning it off during the great race.
The fact is the system got fried when our onboard cameraman went live at the start, we had no idea at all during the race till we finished .
The Wild Oats team is one of the best loyalist teams I have sailed with in my whole sailing career .
Absolute contrived horseshit. That is contained in media releases coming out of mission control ever since the protest announcement. It (the wording/wording) was released to sailing publications over 12 hours ago.

Join the dots. First we didn't need to have it on. Then it was it was on but we didn't know it was off. Now it is we knew it was broke in Sydney Harbour but forgot to tell anyone.

This is like a train smash in slow motion.

 
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d'ranger

Super Anarchist
29,224
4,318
I like trackers for several reasons. I like the AIS receiver for safety reasons. I don't see the purpose of the transmitter, as in how does that make the race safer? It's not like a 1/2 race, there are crew awake and hopefully looking around.  Next up - program all the data into the AI system connected to all the powered systems and just sit there and enjoy the race.

And I never tire of jack sparrow whining. 

 

DFL1010

Anarchist
898
59
Cornwall
Just seen this facebook post from one of the crew on wild oats. 

Saddened by the fact a few of my old mates would have thought we would use our AIS system onboard to our advantage by turning it off during the great race.
The fact is the system got fried when our onboard cameraman went live at the start, we had no idea at all during the race till we finished .
The Wild Oats team is one of the best loyalist teams I have sailed with in my whole sailing career .
Not entirely sure this is as exculpatory as was intended.

 

random

Super Anarchist
6,057
365
I think this has proven that the Race Committee should reconsider processes how AIS technology is integrated into their race instructions.   
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