2018 Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race: The Race Committee has lodged a protest against Wild Oats XI

savoir

Super Anarchist
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What would actually be required for a protest to be valid in a case where a boat finishing days after WOXI files a protest? Certainly they have no allowed means to inform WOXI until they are at the harbour and even then it may take some time to reach the crew.

What about the protest flag? Is this something they must find out while still racing and thus need to have a protest flag up before finishing? I don't think so. Flag is required only for "an

incident

in the racing area that she

wa

s involved in or s

aw". It is not even required when protesting about not sailing the course.

Would it even be possible to make a valid protest after seeing the protest by RC in the harbour and then filing an own protest based on that within the six hours from finishing?


Of course it would. The last boat to finish has every right to file a protest and 6 hours from finishing within which to do it.

Don't hold your breath.

On top of that the RC has unlimited time to file a rule 69 protest based around a false declaration by WO.

 
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Joakim

Super Anarchist
1,471
105
Finland
Of course it would. The last boat to finish has every right to file a protest and 6 hours from finishing within which to do it.

Don't hold your breath.
Of course they have their right to file a protest, but that doesn't necessary mean it will be valid. E.g. if they had seen a boat touch a start mark, it would be only valid if they hailed protest (if within hailing distance) and had the protest flag up for the whole race. I'm just wondering is not transmitting AIS something you are allowed to find out after you have finished.

 

savoir

Super Anarchist
4,914
201
Ok, so I've bit my tongue for the past couple of days but there is so much ignorant crap flying around that I can't stand it for a second longer.


On behalf of myself and all the other dumbfuckers here on SA I extend my gratitude .

How lucky are we boys and girls to have MelbourneA31 both in our presence AND dispensing his wisdom at the same time ?

 
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staysail

Super Anarchist
2,131
334
It is not an important tool to help locate boats, it is an anti collision device.  i think you are getting mixed up with the tracker.
If you really don't know that AIS is now an invaluable boat locating tool in offshore yacht racing you should not be posting on this forum.

 

olaf hart

Super Anarchist
Yeah I will have to grant all that, & admit it was somewhat of a dick post, however earlier this evening I went upstairs to talk to a neighbor lady who visits my wife once a week (to be frank sh'e actually proselyting but I let it slide, because tolerance & all that) like myself she is a non sailor but when I explained this situation to her she was as outraged as I & some on this thread are, I guess the point here is depending on how one's filter is set, this is bullshit.

Don Halvorson

And yes it pisses me off to no end that I have to share 1st names with POTUS. 
It could be worse, your last name could be Trunt....

 

savoir

Super Anarchist
4,914
201
Of course they have their right to file a protest, but that doesn't necessary mean it will be valid. E.g. if they had seen a boat touch a start mark, it would be only valid if they hailed protest (if within hailing distance) and had the protest flag up for the whole race. I'm just wondering is not transmitting AIS something you are allowed to find out after you have finished.


Fuck me Joakim, maybe you should quit SA and get back to feeding the reindeer. Before you go could you fix the layout of that earlier post of yours., ? It was a total pain in the arse to read.

Why on earth would the poor shmucks on the smaller boats pay attention to the WO AIS transmission when it was 100 miles and more ahead ?

 

savoir

Super Anarchist
4,914
201
hoppy said:
So how does work if there is no one on the bridge??? Please please explain!!!!! LOL

I'd rather have a naviguesser keeping an eye on the tankers rather than hoping the tankers spot me.


No one on the bridge ? That isn't tankers that's the US navy. 

 

Joakim

Super Anarchist
1,471
105
Finland
Fuck me Joakim, maybe you should quit SA and get back to feeding the reindeer. Before you go could you fix the layout of that earlier post of yours., ? It was a total pain in the arse to read.

Why on earth would the poor shmucks on the smaller boats pay attention to the WO AIS transmission when it was 100 miles and more ahead ?
Sorry about that layout. I cut and pasted from the RRS pdf. Thought I fixed it before sending, but doesn't appear so. Now it's too late since you quoted it without fixing it.

I'm just wondering how the RRS would work, if they would protest. I'm not expecting them to protest. They may have looked at marinetraffic, this forum or the RC protest at S2H site. So they may know that WOXI wasn't trasmitting AIS even before they finish and surely they will know at the harbour within six hours.

 

mad

Super Anarchist
It is shameful that there are so many on this forum that desperately wanted WO DSQed and are really butthurt that it didn't happen.  Now they are attacking the Oatley family without knowing them and their values.  Bob would be upset, but upset at the loathsome sledgers' on this site suggesting the family were cheats, particularly those from outside of Australia who only know of the family by what is written by faceless idiots on a sailing website.  I guarantee none of those people would have balls to say those statements to their face or even by email and sign your real name.
I wouldn’t put much money on that one, plenty of people would be happy to point out the situation to them. 

 

Se7en

Super Anarchist
1,352
522
Melbourne
The only collisions I’ve heard of in a Hobart race is at the start and AIS wouldn’t have helped.

and during the race there are more crew on deck than a super tanker. Collision avoidance not a major problem really 
Collision avoidance is not a big problem after the start I agree.

But I have had some big cargo vessels change course to avoid us 10 miles or so away when racing - I recall a couple in Bass Strait. It is rather nice to not have to worry about avoiding big ships when  you are trying to race. 

Yes, we would not have bumped into them. But having them spot us on AIS and go around meant we didn't need to take avoiding action and hence lose time.

 

savoir

Super Anarchist
4,914
201
Sorry about that layout. I cut and pasted from the RRS pdf. Thought I fixed it before sending, but doesn't appear so. Now it's too late since you quoted it without fixing it.

I'm just wondering how the RRS would work, if they would protest. I'm not expecting them to protest. They may have looked at marinetraffic, this forum or the RC protest at S2H site. So they may know that WOXI wasn't trasmitting AIS even before they finish and surely they will know at the harbour within six hours.


It would be most unlikely for any of the smaller boats to be carrying internet capabilities beyond a weather service.

On top of that there would be no reason for any of them to monitor the AIS transmission of any of the maxis.

Now don't you forget to keep feeding those reindeer. A visit to Rovaniemi is on my bucket list and I also want to buy a Marrtiini knife while I'm there. Some things must be earned..

 

mad

Super Anarchist
No-one on the bridge is basically a hanging offense. Any master/captain with his ship such would never work again, once he got out of the pokey. 

This doesn't mean AIS is a foolproof way of not being run over by a some immense vessel, people forget how constrained they are in ability to navigate, especially close to shore. So you can't be stupid. But in open ocean, letting ships have some idea you are around might avoid a sad little newspaper notice a few weeks after you fail to return home.
Seen way more than one empty bridge over years, so I doubt the hanging offence. And seen bridges with people on that were no better either! 

 
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paps49

Super Anarchist
8,932
309
Adelaide Australia
Ok, so I've bit my tongue for the past couple of days but there is so much ignorant crap flying around that I can't stand it for a second longer.

The RRS run over the four year cycle of the Olympic Games and the Special Regs attached to the back of them comes into force from July so that you don't have a change to the Special Regs half way through the sailing season in Australia.

The Special Regs that came into force in July 2013 were reviewed in late 2011. A decision was made to replace an imperfect piece of equipment being a radar reflector with a far superior piece of technology called an AIS. The fitting of AIS was mandated for Cat 1 Races from 2015 to allow a phase in period and recommended for Cat 2 races.

Prior to 2015, if you wanted to track your competitors, who all had mandated radar reflectors, the purpose of which was to make them more visible to commercial shipping, you could fit a radar to your racing yacht, as did most of the Whitbread 60's. With some knowledge of relative motion and a plotting sheet you could determine the course and speed of your competitors or any other traffic by plotting them.

AIS is part of the Global Maritime Distress and Safety System and was considered a worthwhile addition to yachts racing in Cat 1 and Cat 2 races. I notice that in the Sydney to Hobart Notices to Competitors that AIS Man Overboard devices are being promoted. Again, another worthwhile piece of safety equipment because a yacht cannot receive a PLB signal without advice from a shoreside receiver. Clearly you cannot track a MOB if your AIS is switched off!

The side effect that AIS could be used as a tactical tool was discussed and discounted due to the far greater benefits for SOLAS and collision avoidance with commercial traffic. Yachts are horrendously poor radar targets.

To say that AIS is only a requirement this year is wrong, it has been in force for the last three editions of the Sydney to Hobart. the Special Regs only require it to be operational, the S.I's require it to be functioning at all times. I would expect that whoever did the Safety Audit of WOXI would have determined that the equipment was functioning correctly.

BTW VHF DSC and MF/HF DSC were also added to the Special Regs in that same review.
Word.

 

paps49

Super Anarchist
8,932
309
Adelaide Australia
hoppy said:
Maybe my wording was bad, but if you have a regular AIS watch then the racers will avoid collisions with commercial ships

I believe that an AIS RX/TX should be mandatory for the race boats (and cruisers offshore) but transmission should be optional, for when conditions dictate. 

AIS receiving should always be on, for MOB and to keep an eye on shipping.
I repeat Hoppy, move away from the keyboard.

 




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