2022 Moth Worlds

bat

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except for the Mach 2 in 8th
I stand corrected😉

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I could be wrong but I saw a picture of Harry Melges in a Mach 2 a day or two ago. Maybe he switched and that was an old pic.

He got a Bieker in the fall and took his Bieker to Worlds. I believe he had a Mach 2 before that and now a buddy in Wisconsin sails it.

Im hearing very mixed reviews on the Exploder. Some people say they are great, others that the boats need some more refining. Its going to be really interesting to see a mix up of multiple Aerocets, Biekers and Exploders in England next summer. DFS probably would of won in a Bieker, but to see Aerocets go 1/3/7 makes you wonder if the platform is a step up, or if its a foil thing.
 
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17mika

Anarchist
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Milan, Italy
my 2c
He got a Bieker in the fall and took his Bieker to Worlds. I believe he had a Mach 2 before that and now a buddy in Wisconsin sails it.

Im hearing very mixed reviews on the Exploder. Some people say they are great, others that the boats need some more refining. Its going to be really interesting to see a mix up of multiple Aerocets, Biekers and Exploders in England next summer. DFS probably would of won in a Bieker, but to see Aerocets go 1/3/7 makes you wonder if the platform is a step up, or if its a foil thing.
I think there is no big difference in performance between aerocets and biekers really. foils of aerocets are not better than biekers and that's a fact I would say. One thing that would really be interesting to know of biekers is about foil verticals. this summer I heard about the trend of people going with short verticals. I have not asked really to people in arg but looking at photos I think people is going short (short bieker verticals are basically similar to all other boats verticals)

re exploders I heard of some foil breakage issues in arg, so not fully dialled in yet.

it's a pity ruggi could not come, so we hsve not seen where manta stands. some boats there had liftoff issues in the waves, definitely that hull has low buoyancy so heavy people could struggle in that. I guess I will see next feb when I hit the water.
 
my 2c

I think there is no big difference in performance between aerocets and biekers really. foils of aerocets are not better than biekers and that's a fact I would say. One thing that would really be interesting to know of biekers is about foil verticals. this summer I heard about the trend of people going with short verticals. I have not asked really to people in arg but looking at photos I think people is going short (short bieker verticals are basically similar to all other boats verticals)

re exploders I heard of some foil breakage issues in arg, so not fully dialled in yet.

it's a pity ruggi could not come, so we hsve not seen where manta stands. some boats there had liftoff issues in the waves, definitely that hull has low buoyancy so heavy people could struggle in that. I guess I will see next feb when I hit the water.

I think Worlds will be huge again after the AC and Olympics in 2024, hopefully they are December 2024. Be really cool to see the starting lines stacked with the whose who again. Not knocking the fleet in Arg, but a lot of guys and girls couldnt make it.

I hear only good things from the guys who have gotten Explodes already, but then I ask around and just hear they have lots of trouble. Hard to tell?

I ordered my Bieker with the short v3 verticals. They are the same length as the current Mach 2 long verticals and Exocet foils. Same ones that Slingsby used in Guardia worlds in 2021. I think it mostly comes down to preference. The longer ones you have to be more precise with your tacks and gybes because the arc the boat travels is further. There is also an argument about if the longer ones really are faster or not. Im really excited to watch worlds in 2023, hopefully its a tight battle for the top between Explodes, Mavricks, Aerocets, Swifts, and Biekers. My boat should arrive right about then, so fingers crossed Im not really depressed that it cant keep up any more...
 

17mika

Anarchist
965
233
Milan, Italy
Has Mach2 given up on the competition completely, to focus on the waszp?
I have not spoken to amac recently, so no first hand info, but it definitely looks like so.

regarding short/long foils. I am getting a long foil boat in 2 months. let's hope it doesn't get too difficult. we will see.
 
I have not spoken to amac recently, so no first hand info, but it definitely looks like so.

regarding short/long foils. I am getting a long foil boat in 2 months. let's hope it doesn't get too difficult. we will see.

AMac would need to move the mast stump back 100mm, design new wings for the new boat, and possible come up with new horizontals and verticals? I think you also would need to move the centerboard trunk forward, but dont quote me on that. At that point it would be a Mach 3, a complete new boat. On the other hand, Waszps are selling 500ish boats a year, the class is exploding, and its getting tons of people into foiling. AMac has said he would like to see builder trophies in the Moth class at big regattas, rewarding people who bring Mach 2s, Exocets, etc. I thought about completely tearing down my Mach 2, moving the the mast stump, but idk.

17Mika, youll have to let me know how the long foils go. I get to make adjustments to my order up to sometime in May, so Im curios how you like the long verticals. Im pretty set with the v3 short verticals, but I am torn on the hard tramps. I keep hearing people are going back to soft tramps because their knees hurt, and its a (small) weight penalty. Not getting them also saves me a good chunk of money, which matters.
 

barney

Member
398
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At that point it would be a Mach 3, a complete new boat.
Sure, that's one way to look at it. On the other hand Nathan did pretty good on the very sock Mach 2 at Garda with a KA sail that has bean so long out of fashion. Before that TB went also very well with an older gen M2. I don't doubt there are significant speed differences but I think they are vastly exaggerated by the top guys moving to newer boats all the time. Hard to comment on this worlds though as it had the worst coverage ever.
 
Sure, that's one way to look at it. On the other hand Nathan did pretty good on the very sock Mach 2 at Garda with a KA sail that has bean so long out of fashion. Before that TB went also very well with an older gen M2. I don't doubt there are significant speed differences but I think they are vastly exaggerated by the top guys moving to newer boats all the time. Hard to comment on this worlds though as it had the worst coverage ever.

Most people are in agreement the reason Nathan did so well is his boat handling of a Mach 2 is way better than just about anyone else’s, no matter the boat. But, he wasn’t as fast.

The masts on the new board are 50mm to 100mm further back from the bow than the Mach 2 mast. Moving the center of effort aft changes things I don’t 100% understand except it’s faster.

The tramps/wings also are more aerodynamic on the new boats. No matter what you do a Mach 2 isn’t getting to 21kts up wind. Too much wind resistance. Even the Exocets aren’t there.

Boat speed matters, but it’s boat handling that makes most of the difference. Yes the top guys are gold medalists, but to get close from what I understand you need to not touch down/crash on >75% of your tacks and all of your gybes. If you can foil tack/gybe/crash less, you’ll be at the front end of the fleet no matter the boat. Then the boat matters.

I did order a Bieker. My Mach 2 needs a lot of love and at this point in my head it makes sense to get a new boat instead of adding a bow sprit, getting a new mast/boom, getting new foils, and the wing bars with out the compression struts. Will I be able to keep up? Probably not, but I’ll have no excuses.
 

barney

Member
398
15
I agree completely.

Mast is probably moved back to compensate the lee helm caused by the additional windward heel coming from the higher racks.
 
I agree completely.

Mast is probably moved back to compensate the lee helm caused by the additional windward heel coming from the higher racks.
Luka Damic talked about the masts moving back in a MothCast a year or two (or three?) back. Lee helm, windward heel, center of effort/drive I think were all part of it.

Moth Cast has been awesome to learn about the boats, fleet, and history. Wish they hadn’t stopped/paused but the pandemic screwed a lot of things up.
 

17mika

Anarchist
965
233
Milan, Italy
Anyone have any comments on the competitiveness and/or geometry of the Thin Air vs the newer designs?
I think speedwise thinair has been pretty ok. not sure really comparable to aerocet/biekers, but not slow either. I remember eddie bridle doing some pretty good results.

I know from when boat was first out there (the first thinnair with 2 "n") there were definitely some quality issues, but I do not anything about the quality of the "thinair v2" boats.

Michele
 




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