2022 Sydney 2 Hobart. 2h for Tatts

[The Dark Knight]

Final result here

Audi Centre Sydney Blue Water Pointscore 22/23

bwps.cycaracing.com

A couple of the minor placing switched around from my earlier post

 

[Roleur]

So what is with Mistral's result above and in the final standings, can she be that much faster? She is a Lombard 34, not that I know anything about that particular boat, but not a 100 footer or anything.

TH boats took the top 3 overall, so I don't think it was anything about Mistral being faster, just being the right speed for the conditions, sailing well, and having a decent rating. Good showing for TH boats though. It seems like it is becoming more and more common for TH to win races overall. Makes me wonder what all those people on the fully crewed boats are for?

 

[huey 2]

Pierre Gal the sailmaker and a local crew built Mistral in Coffs Harbour, a special Lombard design that is already a winner in French / English races. When she was sold the crew who built her and were looking forward to sailing her, were left short by the owner sadly, as quite a controlled build to get her to spec.

French boat ; https://marclombard.com/mc-34/?lang=en

https://www.marsaudon-composites.com/en/mc34-patton/

Rupert Henry who had a Class 40 built in Australia by Innovation in Nowra now has two Lombard designs. Rupert unfortunately had structural problem in the C40 Eora during this years Route Du Rhum after getting through the initial storms in a good placing...So will be interesting to see his input in the Hobart this year with Mistral..

 

[duncan (the other one)]

What fascinates me is the disparity between ORCi (evolution of IMS/number crunched) and IRC (secret squirrel) results.

Those Frenchies sure know how to punch the IRC formula.

 

[DickDastardly]

What fascinates me is the disparity between ORCi (evolution of IMS/number crunched) and IRC (secret squirrel) results.

Those Frenchies sure know how to punch the IRC formula.

Not all that different really Dunc. Clearly a small boat race and most of the TH of course fit that mould, so they are largely up there on handicap under both systems. My sentimental fave boat SailEx doing well under both. But yes, the French know their way that formula surprisingly well.

May also be that the course suited the TH boats, I'd imagine there will be such courses but I've not looked at the detail of the TH vs Full Crew equation.

 

[DickDastardly]

TH boats took the top 3 overall, so I don't think it was anything about Mistral being faster, just being the right speed for the conditions, sailing well, and having a decent rating. Good showing for TH boats though. It seems like it is becoming more and more common for TH to win races overall. Makes me wonder what all those people on the fully crewed boats are for?

Rupert was a good sailor to start with and given recent experience will be at the top of his game to date. I'm waiting for the jungle drums around Rushcutters Bay to start beating the "TH unfair advantage" song...

 

[The Dark Knight]

Rupert was a good sailor to start with and given recent experience will be at the top of his game to date. I'm waiting for the jungle drums around Rushcutters Bay to start beating the "TH unfair advantage" song...

Doesn't IRC have a full crewed and 2H handicap with the 2H being more advantageous? Which was used for this race?

 

[PIL66 - XL2]

Firstly the conditions as said were perfect for that size boat and being light air meant that carrying extra crew was not enough of an advantage
Direction and strength was such that there was a minimum of gear changes.
AND... Not only is Rupert a very good sailor but he has more recent miles lately than anyone and can afford a fully optimized boat for the job..... All these things have clearly added up to a well deserved win..... happy for him

 

[duncan (the other one)]

Not all that different really Dunc. Clearly a small boat race and most of the TH of course fit that mould, so they are largely up there on handicap under both systems. My sentimental fave boat SailEx doing well under both. But yes, the French know their way that formula surprisingly well.

May also be that the course suited the TH boats, I'd imagine there will be such courses but I've not looked at the detail of the TH vs Full Crew equation.

Definitely a small-ish boat race, but the IRC/ORCi disparity on Mistral vs. say the J boats is quite marked.

eg:
Mistral (Lombard) 1.063 / 1.1796 (+11%)
Transcendence (sunfast 3300) 1.024 / 1.0925 (+7%)
Disko (J/99) 1.014 / 1.076 (+6%)


I think the TH did well because

1. they're all in this size range. Bigger boats hit the residual SE on the way back and had to tack.
2. it was short (24hr), so fatigue not a big issue
3. it was a drag race. Minimal tacking (one tack at the island) or gybing (two gybes into the harbour).
4. Most of it was tight reaching (up and back) - assy rigged boat nirvana

As PIL says - all props to Rupert / Greg. I'm sure Rupert's applying a step-change in discipline and performance due to his recent European campaign.

 

[duncan (the other one)]

Doesn't IRC have a full crewed and 2H handicap with the 2H being more advantageous? Which was used for this race?

Yes. 2H if they had it. Now called a more generic 'secondary cert', which can be 2H if you want - though I'm not sure how the IRC 'crew number' changes (if at all) ?

https://ircrating.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Experimental-IRC-Rule-Change-secondary-cert-220801-GBR-FRA.pdf

 

[The Dark Knight]

Yes. 2H if they had it. Now called a more generic 'secondary cert', which can be 2H if you want - though I'm not sure how the IRC 'crew number' changes (if at all) ?

https://ircrating.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Experimental-IRC-Rule-Change-secondary-cert-220801-GBR-FRA.pdf

BTW I noiced that the ORC certs now have a "Custom scoring options for Australia" section

Mistral https://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/155744
Disko Trooper https://data.orc.org/public/WPub.dll/CC/175452

 

[DickDastardly]

Definitely a small-ish boat race, but the IRC/ORCi disparity on Mistral vs. say the J boats is quite marked.

eg:
Mistral (Lombard) 1.063 / 1.1796 (+11%)
Transcendence (sunfast 3300) 1.024 / 1.0925 (+7%)
Disko (J/99) 1.014 / 1.076 (+6%)

Yep - sure are big deltas there. Would be fascinating to run some analysis across boat types - esp series production numbers to see if there's any correlation between Frenchiness and IRC/ORCi delta ... if so some questions might need to be asked about levels of IRC rule transparency on either side of the channel. Don't have the time right now sadly

That said, if a designer and series produiction manufacturer orchestrated all their clients to run as many permutations of trial certificates as possible without breaking per-boat limits they would be able to devloeop some pretty good insights. That sort of collusion is probably not illegal, but could attracta Rule 69 I guess - if a single culprit could be identified

 

[SCARECROW]

That said, if a designer and series produiction manufacturer orchestrated all their clients to run as many permutations of trial certificates as possible without breaking per-boat limits they would be able to devloeop some pretty good insights.

Isn't that basically what Corby did about 15 years ago? Worked with a lot of small - middle sized projects doing refits and built up a database from the results and trial certs.

 

[LB 15]

“I feel like we’re doing a bit of an Ash Barty in a way."

 

[terrafirma]

So what is with Mistral's result above and in the final standings, can she be that much faster? She is a Lombard 34, not that I know anything about that particular boat, but not a 100 footer or anything.

Very fast boat for her size and rating given she is a cruiser racer and quite powerful for the conditions the boats had in the race. She represents the latest thinking in IRC also.

2018 Lombard 34 cruiser-racer

ORCi Division 4 winner in the 2019 Rolex Sydney-Hobart and 2nd in the highly competitive IRC Division 6 "Mistral" was the best performing 'small' boat in the entire fleet. It's the latest thinking in IRC racing and was proudly built here in Australia and is light, stiff and has speed with ease...

www.performanceboating.com.au

 

[huey 2]

From The Front Page
Nice Pic

double up

Last weekend’s 172nm Cabbage Tree Island race – the traditional offshore warm-up for the Sydney-Hobart – was a triumph for the new Two-Handed division and gave the purportedly-dominant TP52 brigade

sailinganarchy.com

 

[DickDastardly]

Very fast boat for her size and rating given she is a cruiser racer and quite powerful for the conditions the boats had in the race. She represents the latest thinking in IRC also.

2018 Lombard 34 cruiser-racer

ORCi Division 4 winner in the 2019 Rolex Sydney-Hobart and 2nd in the highly competitive IRC Division 6 "Mistral" was the best performing 'small' boat in the entire fleet. It's the latest thinking in IRC racing and was proudly built here in Australia and is light, stiff and has speed with ease...

www.performanceboating.com.au

This year's model IRC thinking is a bit more "Scow" but yes, this one is close to the mark. Apparently more recent IRC changes have reduced the advantage of bulbless keels.

 

[huey 2]

PIERRE GAL & MISTRAL Q&A

-Mistral has already delivered beyond your expectations just on Season 1 right?! Probably not beyond my expectations as I was pretty sure the boat would be fast, however as a small boat, the IRC handicaps have to be right, and you don't really know that for sure until you sail...so yes, I am...

www.wichard.com.au

 

[duncan (the other one)]

View attachment 557894 From The Front Page
Nice Pic

double up

Last weekend’s 172nm Cabbage Tree Island race – the traditional offshore warm-up for the Sydney-Hobart – was a triumph for the new Two-Handed division and gave the purportedly-dominant TP52 brigade

sailinganarchy.com

As much as I like David - he got this a bit wrong.

Anything faster than the DK46 were knocked out by running into the residual SE - you can see the TP's were tacking off Norah before the breeze backed E.

Everyone smaller had the benefit of E/NE for the whole return.

 

[huey 2]

Mistral wins two-hander Cabbage Tree Island Race clean sweep - Mysailing

Mistral is the first two-handed boat to win overall honours in one of the Cruising Yacht Club of Australia’s major races, with co-skippers Rupert Henry

www.mysailing.com.au