2022 Sydney To Hobart

[Spoonie]

So a starboard tack boat can run another boat aground?

If they are on opposite tacks with the stbd boat heading into a lee shore then it is not the starboard boat running anyone aground.

The port tack boat no longer has a continuous obstruction it needs to manoeuvre to avoid. It has basically no rights. It does however have options. It can stall the boat, duck the stbd boat, or tack.

If it chooses to tack, it now has an obstruction to avoid, but the boat required to give room only has to do so if it is able (and hailed for room to tack) So if you tack under a stream of stbd tackers, and coordination of that stream means they can't get clear in time, yes they can run you right into that lee shore.

Room to tack is just that, room to tack and nothing more.

There is nothing in the rules that says you have to predict what will happen next, only what is happening now. The only obstruction the port tack boat has to avoid in the now, is the stbd tack boat.

 

[The Dark Knight]

All you guys whinge like old moles about the coverage and commentary but you still watch it🤔🤔🤔
If you don’t like it turn it off, you aren’t forced to watch or listen to it.

There has barely been any whinging about ch 7 compared with past years. The drama with the 100's distracted us

 

[dchs89]

Question for someone more educated Is WO11 problem when they did the mods the moved the mast forward and now she can't put up the sail area as Loyal/Law Connect and Comanche?

The mods actually place the mast further back in the boat. At certain angles of sail the narrow hull can't put down the same power regardless of the sail area.

 

[GybeSet]

Definitely looked like he wasn't used to driving that thing.

'looked like' he gave room promptly unlike the others, and steered out of a tight spot, would you have carried on? To what end would that have resulted

 

[bat]

Agreed. He had tacked and was actually below close hauled course at 31:13 on the official replay.

Given we can here his voice continuously on the coverage:

1) C had completed its tack and was on port with BJ to windward.
2) there was no audible room to tack hail from C to BJ (or to anyone?)
3) BJ to windward was able to tack and continue sailing towards the continuous obstruction, so there was room to do so.

Comanche went toe to toe with chris nicholson and squark and got spat out the back.

IMHO there is an interesting look on the big mans face afterwards while the yelling is going on.

Probably a few tactical options for Comanche there but would have meant thinking more than one move ahead .

Worth another look perhaps.
C tacks to give room for obstruction to BJ
C cannot avoid (duck) Whisper with LC to windward.
C protests W who then has to protest LC.
C had nowhere to go And if they can prove they couldn’t duck both W and LC then LC will get flicked if they were asked for room and didn’t respond…..or BJ flicked if found to had room to tack back to stb and didn’t for C.

BJ will be in trouble at rounding if C can prove they tacked to avoid and hitting mark as result.

 

[Ease the sheet.]

If they are on opposite tacks with the stbd boat heading into a lee shore then it is not the starboard boat running anyone aground.

The port tack boat no longer has a continuous obstruction it needs to manoeuvre to avoid. It has basically no rights. It does however have options. It can stall the boat, duck the stbd boat, or tack.

If it chooses to tack, it now has an obstruction to avoid, but the boat required to give room only has to do so if it is able (and hailed for room to tack) So if you tack under a stream of stbd tackers, and coordination of that stream means they can't get clear in time, yes they can run you right into that lee shore.

Room to tack is just that, room to tack and nothing more.

There is nothing in the rules that says you have to predict what will happen next, only what is happening now. The only obstruction the port tack boat has to avoid in the now, is the stbd tack boat.

Rewatch the start.

Boats racing up the western side on starboard tack.
Boat furthest out approaches boundary and calls for water. Boats inside respond by tacking and giving room to outside boot which tacks away from the obstruction.

Happens every year.

Watch.

 

[GybeSet]

Worth another look perhaps.
C tacks to give room for obstruction to BJ
C cannot avoid (duck) Whisper with LC to windward.
C protests W who then has to protest LC.
C had nowhere to go And if they can prove they couldn’t duck both W and LC then LC will get flicked if they were asked for room and didn’t respond…..or BJ flicked if found to had room to tack back to stb and didn’t for C.

BJ will be in trouble at rounding if C can prove they tacked to avoid and hitting mark as result.

With you bat, variables are AC did duck after luffing, did they call the windward boats in time for them to respond, I'm not sure they protested(?flag?), maybe
Also BJ did not tack asap (rule says 'if possible') after AC responded, as she's obliged to do , certainly she was pinned by W and LC, who surely must respond as Andoo did.

I don't see that you can be selective who you call room to, all or none

 

[bat]

With you bat, variables are AC did duck after luffing, did they call the windward boats in time for them to respond, I'm not sure they protested(?flag?), maybe
Also BJ did not tack asap (rule says 'if possible') after AC responded, as she's obliged to do , certainly she was pinned by W and LC, who surely must respond as Andoo did.

I don't see that you can be selective who you call room to, all or none

Appeared to be both LC and W that C was calling a protest on. The timing of any call asking for room to tack would be debated. Given the talent on both W and LC you’d be surprised if W didn’t see this unfolding and be calling LC for room to tack.
C, in a bad position did everything right to avoid contact, then took a turn (s a precaution)for hitting the top mark in avoiding another ‘possible‘ incident. Not a great start for them going low line and boundary, but a little more self preservation than others around them to dust off and get on with things.

 

[mad]

I'm sure he will be crushed to hear your opinion on the matter.

😂😂

 

[Spoonie]

'looked like' he gave room promptly unlike the others, and steered out of a tight spot, would you have carried on? To what end would that have resulted

I *know* I have a very different helming style to that skipper. Then again I've never driven a 100fer so who t.f. knows.

I'll say it again, it looks like to me he wasn't used to driving that thing because he did and said several things on that leg that wreaked of "I'm not comfortable with the boundaries and behaviours of this boat"

Like nearly carting the top mark off into oblivion...

But that's just my opinion. Why do you care?

 

[mad]

Big Fella is probably just as experienced and Richo used to yell at him, too… it’s good to be The King?

How’s Richo’s hair looking this year?

 

[Spoonie]

Worth another look perhaps.

I did, several times, and in slow motion

There is not enough clarity in the footage to really know anything for certain.

We know AC completed her tack and sailed forward. We know BJ tacked back on to stbd and kept sailing so there was room to do so while avoiding the boundary

W/LC are only obliged to give room to tack if they are hailed.

I would suggest AC just sailed on themselves into a pickle.

 

[Spoonie]

Rewatch the start.

Boats racing up the western side on starboard tack.
Boat furthest out approaches boundary and calls for water. Boats inside respond by tacking and giving room to outside boot which tacks away from the obstruction.

Happens every year.

Watch.

Rule 20. Room to tack at an obstruction.

Is room to tack and avoid a boat on the same tack as you approach an obstruction. Yes there can be a Domino effect (rrs20.3). Yes it happens regularly in the S2H start.

It is not inferred automatically; you have to hail 'room to tack'.

Your request to room to tack having been met, you now are obliged to avoid starboard tackers like the rest of us. Including, but not limited to, tacking back into the obstruction.

The rule is called room to tack, not room to avoid the fleet unhindered as I sail off a lee shore.

Rule 19 (room to pass an obstruction) does not apply to boats on different tacks.

All in all, heading to a lee shore on stbd with the fleet bearing down on you, is not a risk free endeavour.

 

[GybeSet]

I *know* I have a very different helming style to that skipper. Then again I've never driven a 100fer so who t.f. knows.

I'll say it again, it looks like to me he wasn't used to driving that thing because he did and said several things on that leg that wreaked of "I'm not comfortable with the boundaries and behaviours of this boat"

Like nearly carting the top mark off into oblivion...

But that's just my opinion. Why do you care?

If he was called for room he had to change course, option 'you tack' n/a
What was your plan?

Used to it? Who knows.
Won Cabbage Tree
Won Tollgate Islands
Won Big Boat Challenge
Won every race steered at Hammo

Shit happens mate, Brocky killed driving a Commodore, was he used to that?

 

[Spoonie]

Given the talent on both W and LC you’d be surprised if W didn’t see this unfolding and be calling LC for room to tack.

LC was calling starboard, it was in their lo Livestream. AC was not an obstruction to W so why would they call for room to tack?

AC had room to tack from Bj because they did it, and while she probably didn't have room to duck, she would have had room to tack back on to starboard again.

BJ and AC finding themselves pinned against a lee border was not W or LC's problem.

 

[GybeSet]

Appeared to be both LC and W that C was calling a protest on. The timing of any call asking for room to tack would be debated. Given the talent on both W and LC you’d be surprised if W didn’t see this unfolding and be calling LC for room to tack.
C, in a bad position did everything right to avoid contact, then took a turn (s a precaution)for hitting the top mark in avoiding another ‘possible‘ incident. Not a great start for them going low line and boundary, but a little more self preservation than others around them to dust off and get on with things.

Mostly yeah, just seen no call for room from AC.
Whisper can't call until she has obstruction issues, or is called from below, entirely possible.
She actually bore away to give BJ room

 

[GybeSet]

LC was calling starboard, it was in their lo Livestream. AC was not an obstruction to W so why would they call for room to tack?

AC had room to tack from Bj because they did it, and while she probably didn't have room to duck, she would have had room to tack back on to starboard again.

BJ and AC finding themselves pinned against a lee border was not W or LC's problem.

Calling starboard on who?
No-one ahead on Port

 

[Spoonie]

If he was called for room he had to change course, option 'you tack' n/a
What was your plan?

Used to it? Not so sure
Won Cabbage Tree
Won Tollgate Islands
Won Big Boat Challenge
Won every race steered at Hammo

I actually don't know what you are talking about, or care.

In my opinion, he did not steer that boat on that start with confidence. There were a bunch of things that suggest he wasn't confident of that boats boundaries and behaviours in close proximity to others under pressure.

What I would have done differently is hypothetical strawman rubbish. I wasn't there to make those decisions and I've never driven a 100er. Maybe I would have done the same thing, maybe I would have done something different.

Noting I have a very different helm style to someone should not be controversial.

 

[Spoonie]

Calling starboard on who?

AC and BJ

 

[jackolantern]

I rewatched the feed. Only one change to my original takes:

In incident 2, I’d argue Comanche was Not overlapped with BJ at the zone. However, When Blackjack tacked inside the Zone ahead of a starboard tacker they opened themself up to a world of hurt. “I chose to start my tack early and hit the mark rather than hitting BJ” will be a phrase used by C in the protest room…. to great effect.

Also I’ll add a take: the WOXI spins were for crossing LC when LC were tacking to avoid a Starboard tacker in BJ. LC had to THROW the bow through and still *barely* missed clipping the stern of WOXI. Murray J was right, Richo just wanted to be first out of the heads and he pushed it too hard.