2022 Sydney To Hobart

terrafirma

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I reckon LawConnect would really benefit from Comanche-style daggerboards angled the other way - they provide lift as will as side force on Comanche. IIRC LC is a fair bit heavier than Comanche too.
Yes it did seem it was heavier by the way it responded to the puffs vs Comanche. It seemed the slowest boat to react yo the wind veins but if it had steady pressure it was good. It makes Comanche look light and tippy IMO.
 

bigrpowr

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The 805
the R/P's did not look very good. for a multitude of reasons i'm sure. LC sure did seem a good bit more sorted than the past, but really can't beat Comanche in any condition.
 

DickDastardly

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Maybe Dick..... LC assy boards still create a lot of lift....
Not in the upwards direction the way they're canted. Look at the angle of The Indian's immersed board when it's heeled over at 30 degrees. IMOCA / VOR 65 design concept in action. LC's boards look purely designed to reduce leeway - they had theirs up downwind, Indian had hers down.
 

terrafirma

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2 or 3 tonnes heaver by my estimation.
Makes you wonder other than sail changes/bowspirit etc LC is the original boat that went belly up after losing it's keel near Fastnet rock, wonder if they could lighten the boat and do anything else such as dagger board changes suggested above to improve the performance. For the spend though and given it's beating the RP100's LC is the budget buy for success although as you say will struggle to beat Comanche no matter.
 

Haligonian Winterr

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Makes you wonder other than sail changes/bowspirit etc LC is the original boat that went belly up after losing it's keel near Fastnet rock, wonder if they could lighten the boat and do anything else such as dagger board changes suggested above to improve the performance. For the spend though and given it's beating the RP100's LC is the budget buy for success although as you say will struggle to beat Comanche no matter.
She's been put on a diet but there's only so much carbon you can cut out before there's not enough carbon left to go sailing.

Daggerboard upgrade would be helpful but interior geometry/engineering is quite complicated relative to keel structure if you want to move the board cases.
 

SCANAS

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so Oats has been knock off the pedestal and the Big Indian has taken her place ?
That usually happens with the benefit of 9yrs development between boats. Next challenger must be due in 2023, not sure anyone has the $40 million required to take it forward again though.
 
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jackolantern

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Is the next 100' supermaxi not just a foiling IMOCA60 on steroids? Comanche was originally playing around with the idea of lifting foils back in the design phase in 2014 before winding up with straight boards - likely due to the tech not being mature enough. Gotta imagine that with two rounds of Vendee Globe development since then that the technology and thinking have grown by leaps and bounds.

The IMOCA "Apivia" was only a hair behind Rambler 88 in the 2021 fastnet, only 50-60 miles behind Skorpios, and beat the JuanK 70 that was Mar Mostro over the finish line by 50 miles.... and that was a 60 footer. I imagine with the knowledge someone like VPLP has by now you could built a facsimile of a big IMOCA and just blow everything that exists out of the water.

Might not even need to go to 100 feet to do it. 80? 85?

$40m is I think a bit shy, but yes. Something like that.
 
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Roleur

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Do you think Comanche sailing at higher heel angles is a new mode, to get more lift from the leeward board? I know it was discussed above how the boards work, I'm just wondering if they are utilizing that detail more now than before.
 

DickDastardly

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Makes you wonder other than sail changes/bowspirit etc LC is the original boat that went belly up after losing it's keel near Fastnet rock, wonder if they could lighten the boat and do anything else such as dagger board changes suggested above to improve the performance. For the spend though and given it's beating the RP100's LC is the budget buy for success although as you say will struggle to beat Comanche no matter.
Probably easier and more cost-effective just to develop a new hull/appendage package under the existing deck, rig and systems. E.g. Scallywag 100 is a new hull/appendage package grafted on to the deck of a previous Greg Elliott designed maxi. CQS is also built under the deck of a previous boat.

LawConnect was Juan K's first Maxi IIRC, the next one, Rambler 88, is much more like Comanche in concept and is a serious rocketship on scratch and handicap.
 

DickDastardly

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Do you think Comanche sailing at higher heel angles is a new mode, to get more lift from the leeward board? I know it was discussed above how the boards work, I'm just wondering if they are utilizing that detail more now than before.
It has always sailed at big heel angles by design, but the last couple of campaigns running the boat seem to have succeeded in improving its lighter airs disadvantage compared to the skinny boats - but they're still quicker in the light.
 

winch man

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Australia
It has always sailed at big heel angles by design, but the last couple of campaigns running the boat seem to have succeeded in improving its lighter airs disadvantage compared to the skinny boats - but they're still quicker in the light.
I seem to remember an interview with a crewmember a few years ago where they said that they've worked out that when in pretty much anything other than close hauled if they back off the keel cant to around 85-90% and fully utilise the water ballast to make up some of the difference in righting moment there's quite a noticeable in both top speed and average speed. This might be due to increased lift and therefore drag at full cant due to the inclined keel pin angle? If so then maybe they get all the lift they need from the daggerboards, and the keel at at full cant is providing an element of drag? Happy to be corrected if wrong
 

PIL66 - XL2

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Not in the upwards direction the way they're canted. Look at the angle of The Indian's immersed board when it's heeled over at 30 degrees. IMOCA / VOR 65 design concept in action. LC's boards look purely designed to reduce leeway - they had theirs up downwind, Indian had hers down.
You are absolutely correct DD.... good point.... I think Stefan / Beau Geste use a board downwind as well
 
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DickDastardly

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I seem to remember an interview with a crewmember a few years ago where they said that they've worked out that when in pretty much anything other than close hauled if they back off the keel cant to around 85-90% and fully utilise the water ballast to make up some of the difference in righting moment there's quite a noticeable in both top speed and average speed. This might be due to increased lift and therefore drag at full cant due to the inclined keel pin angle? If so then maybe they get all the lift they need from the daggerboards, and the keel at at full cant is providing an element of drag? Happy to be corrected if wrong
That's very possibly right. I know in the VOR65s the crews eventually found a "sweet spot" cant angle that was less than maximum that achieved an optimal tradoff between lift and righting moment.
 

terrafirma

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It has always sailed at big heel angles by design, but the last couple of campaigns running the boat seem to have succeeded in improving its lighter airs disadvantage compared to the skinny boats - but they're still quicker in the light.
Yeah it blew me away how they beat the RP100's to the Gold Coast race in around 6-7 knots. They were never that quick in those conditions and it was like something had changed since Jim's ownership? I know Winning hooked up with Big Fella and it all went from there, perhaps there had been suggestions on what to do under Jim's ownership but it never happened because Jim knew deep down he'd be selling the boat.? Under Winning and Big Fella they seem to have made huge gains and perhaps Oats is just having some bad luck ATM but since Big Fella's departure they seem to have lost something? Can't right them off with Stan Honey and Murray Jones jumping on board so I guess we'll watch and see.
 

SCANAS

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Continual development by the best in the business. Look at loose luffed sails as one example. Even in 2014/2015 a brand new Comanche under North Sails Ken Read had loose luffed kite. Now even BJ doesn’t carry one. So if a super skinny BJ is slower going deep (TWA) with a loose luffed kite than it is with many pole’d out tight luffed “jibs” … than goes to show you how much it’s changed for designers, sailmakers etc just in the last 8yrs since C launched. Let alone what they have learnt since the twenty year old designs of the RP’s.
 
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