2022 Sydney To Hobart

[Schakel]

So the in the top 100 footers the reengineered Comache proved fastest.
Doesn't say anything but is a indication:

Watching the Solas Big Boat Challenge and Andoo Comanche is smoking the fleet with Law Connect doing well too. Wild Oats in 4th position she seems to have slowed down or perhaps had issues with Black Jack overtaking her. Protest flat onboard BJ so lets see what happens?

"Appears Oats had no reaching sail for most of the race"

An inshore race.
Boat speed.
But how will good old WOXI behave in heavy seas?
We'll see.

 

[DickDastardly]

Yeah it blew me away how they beat the RP100's to the Gold Coast race in around 6-7 knots. They were never that quick in those conditions and it was like something had changed since Jim's ownership? I know Winning hooked up with Big Fella and it all went from there, perhaps there had been suggestions on what to do under Jim's ownership but it never happened because Jim knew deep down he'd be selling the boat.? Under Winning and Big Fella they seem to have made huge gains and perhaps Oats is just having some bad luck ATM but since Big Fella's departure they seem to have lost something? Can't right them off with Stan Honey and Murray Jones jumping on board so I guess we'll watch and see.

I suspect the European team ruinning it under Mitch Booth (well known Dutchman) made some light air gains too.

 

[DickDastardly]

Continual development by the best in the business. Look at loose luffed sails as one example. Even in 2014/2015 a brand new Comanche under North Sails Ken Read had loose luffed kite. Now even BJ doesn’t carry one. So if a super skinny BJ is slower going deep (TWA) with a loose luffed kite than it is with many pole’d out tight luffed “jibs” … than goes to show you how much it’s changed for designers, sailmakers etc just in the last 8yrs since C launched. Let alone what they have learnt since the twenty year old designs of the RP’s.

Sorta surprised BJ and WOXI aren't running loose luffed kites as they have so much less RM than Comanche. When the skinny boats hoist the Zeroes (2.5 x jib area) and hoist the canards you'd have to imagine they'd have serious lee helm if they're well balanced sailing upwind. So, arced up under Zero without the canard they'd slide sideways downwind (extra drag) and be continually trying to bear off. Seems in that configuration a loose luffed kite may be a feasible option.

 

[Frogman56]

DD et al,
Here is where the war front is at for maxi downwind, just using 12 TWA as a single point sample where all the boats are at 100% RM utilisation.

1. TWA is around 145, boatspeed ~ or > 1.5 x TWS
2. AWA forward of TWA by > 100 degrees
3. Therefore, AWA +/- 40 degrees

And note also that, in this example, AWS and TWS are approximately equal. Nice attached three slot flow etc. And remember, they dont care about rating, so the ~ 55% mid-girth zero is the go to.

Configuration wise, Black Jack, with new rig but no great increase in RM tells us part of the story - rig bigger to get downwind, but now reefing to get upwind in ~ 12 TWS!

There is more detail about the daggers and how the dynamics of the longitudinal aero CE operates. In some ways, the contest is about max SA/RM for a 100 foot skiff ...

Frog

 

[PIL66 - XL2]

Couple of points on Comanche
Jim made big changes that saw better performance
Gone are the loose luff sails and new zeros were made...
J1 went to furling (no torsion lines Doyle) this allowed better upwind and super fast gear changes.
Pumps were removed allowing for way less crew and much faster gear changes.....
Those alone had to have made the biggest difference
The new Ruski owner didn't do anything that I can tell.... Then comes Hermon. I am no longer in the know so not sure they have changed much other than crew.... and I can't see how the Big fella can make any speed difference over all
In previous Hobarts Comanche was way ahead in almost all breezes but this is not obvious due to the shut down of breeze at the end and both BJ and WO came back fast in that 0-5 range
I think Comanche's speed seems the same relevant to Law Connect... but.....

 

[Mid]

Go The Indian

you good thing

 

[SCANAS]

Sorta surprised BJ and WOXI aren't running loose luffed kites as they have so much less RM than Comanche. When the skinny boats hoist the Zeroes (2.5 x jib area) and hoist the canards you'd have to imagine they'd have serious lee helm if they're well balanced sailing upwind. So, arced up under Zero without the canard they'd slide sideways downwind (extra drag) and be continually trying to bear off. Seems in that configuration a loose luffed kite may be a feasible option.

WOXI may still have one but BJ doesn’t use them anymore. Mr Bradford had a good video about it last year.

- They can fly & sheet multiple sails via the strut because the outside sail is rated as a jib

- The three sails add up to a kite m2

- Sailing at and above windspeed moves apparent forward

BJ’s zero sheets via strut so clew is at mast, whereas I remember Scally had those huge posts in the aft corners about 700mm off the deck to increase their sheeting theoretically past the back of the boat! Certainly different & interesting ideas. I would think there would be case for loose luffed (perhaps light air running) on the RP’s, but I’m sure BJ & Mr Bradford are 1000x smarter than me.

 

[Y88]

What about Launceston to Hobart and West Coaster?

 

[mccroc]

Thinking about the port/starboard incident that got Comanche DSQ. No one would have thought that Comanche could win a protest - haven't read the SIs, but why not do turns - or are they too big? Also why not RET - better for points.

 

[[email protected]]

What about Launceston to Hobart and West Coaster?

What about them? There's a M2H thread already. L2H probably not gonna get a lot of attention beyond those directly connected with the race, and those people aren't as likely to speculate wildly on every tactical maneuver.... and I don't think there's ever been a sunfish incident in the L2H.

 

[trt131]

Also why not RET - better for points.

Same points. Number of entries plus one.

 

[bigrpowr]

Thinking about the port/starboard incident that got Comanche DSQ. No one would have thought that Comanche could win a protest - haven't read the SIs, but why not do turns - or are they too big? Also why not RET - better for points.

it looked to me like they were gonna tack and then didn't. big C probably thought so too. way too much to stop at that point.

 

[mccroc]

Same points. Number of entries plus one.

I was thinking of RRS A5.3 in which RET gets one more than number of starters. In this case it probably doesn't apply, and everyone started anyway.

 

[DickDastardly]

WOXI may still have one but BJ doesn’t use them anymore. Mr Bradford had a good video about it last year.

- They can fly & sheet multiple sails via the strut because the outside sail is rated as a jib

- The three sails add up to a kite m2

- Sailing at and above windspeed moves apparent forward

BJ’s zero sheets via strut so clew is at mast, whereas I remember Scally had those huge posts in the aft corners about 700mm off the deck to increase their sheeting theoretically past the back of the boat! Certainly different & interesting ideas. I would think there would be case for loose luffed (perhaps light air running) on the RP’s, but I’m sure BJ & Mr Bradford are 1000x smarter than me.

You’re clearly right. I must ask
Mark.

 

[SCANAS]

Anyone have a staysail to suit BENE 40 we could borrow for the race?

 

[duncan (the other one)]

Genoa/JT or spinnaker? (I have neither for you I'm afraid).

You might be able to get by with your storm jib for a genoa staysail.

 

[Sidecar]

Anyone have a staysail to suit BENE 40 we could borrow for the race?

To save the guessing:

Luff:? Foot:? Leech: ?

Used Jibs

www.sailexchange.com.au

 

[Gorn FRANTIC!!]

Anyone have a staysail to suit BENE 40 we could borrow for the race?

No. Hope this helps.

 

[SCANAS]

To save the guessing:

Luff:? Foot:? Leech: ?

Used Jibs

www.sailexchange.com.au

Thanks. They have a couple of close matches but to buy owner would rather get a laminate / membrane one made to fit. We borrowed one off a FARR44 but that was a touch too big, so cruiser racer 40’r or 35’r race boat dimensions.

Roughly
Luff 12-14m
Leech 10-12m
Foot 3-3.5m

 

[Stanno]

A big thank you to the Andoo Comanche and Wild Oats teams for their kind hospitality with a bunch of Hunters Hill Sailing Club kids at sailing camp today before the wild storms hit ... the kids were absolutely stoked to be able to go aboard both yachts and check things out, and some great inspiration was had!! We know how short time is for all the S2H teams at this time of year, and to indulge the kids was just brilliant. Sail well teams - you've set some youngsters on a lifetime path of sailing!!