2022 Sydney To Hobart

[shanghaisailor]

I get what you mean. I have been on the end of such half-accusations and rumours. For example back in dinghy days my (very old) dinghy was given the credit for me beating people at the local club in my first season. So my boat was measured (when no-one else's was). Total legit (though very very heavy that was a handicap not a help). Even after that people thought I had some advantage until we swapped boats and I still won.

Later in offshore racing someone spread some rumours that we must have missed a mark in the night. The light on that mark had failed so they reckoned we had taken a shortcut. By good luck another yacht rounded so close we had to be careful whether they had water inside us so were able to verify that we had gone round it.

In both cases I/we were able to disprove the rumours, but that isn't always the case in our sport. And some people will always make up some excuse for being beaten.

So put up with a protest or shut up makes sense

You mean like the latest piece of crap from Anarchist David even though Sam Hayes clarified the measurement process BY AN ACCREDITED MEASURER and he still states there is "still considerable room for speculation". And that idiot from the UK, Mr Beale. Australian Sailing has a responsibility to sailing in Australia not some former national judge from the UK. OZ is no longer part of the empire old boy!

 

[Fiji Bitter]

OZ is no longer part of the empire old boy!

True, but they are still suffering the consequences.
Here's there AC squad for Barcelona:

 

[duncan (the other one)]

Australian Sailing has a responsibility to sailing in Australia not some former national judge from the UK.

Funny thing is, Australian Sailing should play no part in the decision process.

AS is the Rule Authority, not the Rating Authority.

9.1 Review of a boat’s rating may be requested at any time by the owner who should submit a review request through their Rule Authority to the Rating Authority.

9.2 Anyone who has a valid interest in a boat's certificate may also request a rating review from the Rating Authority, by submitting a review request through their Rule Authority to the Rating Authority. A fee may apply. The owner of the boat subject to review will be requested to file a reply as soon as possible.

9.3 The Rating Authority may also review a rating at any time.

9.4 A review shall be based on all the available evidence. Where necessary, rated data shall be re-measured by an authorised measurer. The decision of the Rating Authority on any review shall be final.

 

[shanghaisailor]

Funny thing is, Australian Sailing should play no part in the decision process.

AS is the Rule Authority, not the Rating Authority.

9.1 Review of a boat’s rating may be requested at any time by the owner who should submit a review request through their Rule Authority to the Rating Authority.

9.2 Anyone who has a valid interest in a boat's certificate may also request a rating review from the Rating Authority, by submitting a review request through their Rule Authority to the Rating Authority. A fee may apply. The owner of the boat subject to review will be requested to file a reply as soon as possible.

9.3 The Rating Authority may also review a rating at any time.

9.4 A review shall be based on all the available evidence. Where necessary, rated data shall be re-measured by an authorised measurer. The decision of the Rating Authority on any review shall be final.

Good point Duncan

 

[Livia]

Time for the really dum question.
Was the keel weight number from the designers or arrived out by keel immersion.
If it was the second it is difficult to see how differences are not within a margin of error of the method.

Next with IRC as it now stands, if you decrease the bulb weight shouldn’t the rating go down as stability has gone down relative to the boat weight.

Of course none of this justifies the position of the AS Rating office which take the view that it is not their job to verify data just send the form to IRC for a ridiculous fee.

Then again you would have to have some understanding of the rules you administer to do otherwise.

I doubt if anyone in the AS Rating office had the expertise to even do an ORCi inclination.
The AS rating office has held the view that even if the AS measurer fucks up it is the owners problem yet the input data then somehow secret and can’t be reviewed.

Funny, when the system was overseen by volunteers AS would require re-measure every boat which was part of an Australian team And that was done without undue fuss.

Back in the day, a lot of people thought the rating of Schecwan (Davidson 39) was wrong and they were right when on re measurement an error was found in the freeboards.

So anyway after holding JOG, CHS, IMS, ORCi, and IRC certificates over the years, I am happy to be done with all the bullshit and incompetence.

 

[DickDastardly]

So anyway after holding JOG, CHS, IMS, ORCi, and IRC certificates over the years, I am happy to be done with all the bullshit and incompetence.

I get that. But what does that mean for the sport? So we all sail PHS and be done with it? Do we need measurement based handicaps at all? If so, how do we sort these issues?

 

[Livia]

I get that. But what does that mean for the sport? So we all sail PHS and be done with it? Do we need measurement based handicaps at all? If so, how do we sort these issues?

Without integrity in the system we do something else with our time and money
Hard truth!

And it is not just IRC , how did AS ever let Mould 11 happen

Pic of my latest irc boat attached

But wait I need someone to measure the overhangs!

It has been weighed by the way but not by a method recognised by a rating office, but good enough the the Department of Transport.

 

[Fiji Bitter]

Is that hydrogen powered, it looks a bit like the ETNZ one.

Just joking,it actually looks very sweet, well done!

 

[Goodvibes]

I get that. But what does that mean for the sport? So we all sail PHS and be done with it? Do we need measurement based handicaps at all? If so, how do we sort these issues?

Well, it's pretty clear that many have tried to sort out how boats of different constructions can compete with each other, some of them could have even worked. But it is the governance that is the problem.

Imagine, just imagine that a boat getting ready for one of the worlds best known ocean races, is weighed a found to be over 200kg heavier to the certificate it has been using? Is such a thing even possible and if so, how? And what does that say about the system?

One thing that is baked into humans is that if there are no police, theft and crime will replace them. If you want a suggestion on how to fix this ridiculous reality? The winner is quarantined on arrival and audited. Quick, easy and completed by experts. If they fail to pass ... NEXT!

I can guarantee that every boat that arrives in Hobart will comply with it's certificate, because of the remote risk that they will be audited. Right now, why would you not cheat to get the Rolex? No one will ever know, 'everyone does it' so who is going to complain?

 

[DtM]

But you don't know the winner for days sometimes. Other than that (for perhaps the first time ever) I agree with you Randumb.

 

[Rotnest Express]

Without integrity in the system we do something else with our time and money
Hard truth!

And it is not just IRC , how did AS ever let Mould 11 happen

Pic of my latest irc boat attached

But wait I need someone to measure the overhangs!

It has been weighed by the way but not by a method recognised by a rating office, but good enough the the Department of Transport.

View attachment 570200

That looks a very sweet ride Livia.Superb lines.What is the brief history if you don’t mind?I have a bad case of ‘Boat Envy’.Very jealous.

 

[Livia]

Rottie, thanks glad you like it.
Original builder has done the odd IRC boat pictured below.
But an original 1950s Sydney Harbour Snapper boat purchased sound with a new engine but needing love and a year in the shed, done.
Tried to keep the work boat ethic and stuck to day boat simplicity.
So new deck doghouse and roof So it took a bit to get the look right.

 

[Livia]

Rottie, I can’t seem to attach a pic to a message so to hijack the thread here you go.

 

[The Dark Knight]

Rottie, I can’t seem to attach a pic to a message so to hijack the thread here you go.

View attachment 570232

What’s it rate?

 

[enigmatically2]

I get that. But what does that mean for the sport? So we all sail PHS and be done with it? Do we need measurement based handicaps at all? If so, how do we sort these issues?

One of the more straightforward options is for all serious events is to restrict it to things that can be easily checked (as per many short-handed events). So:
Monohull or multihull
LOA is under 30'; 40' etc (and yes I know imperial measurements might be ridiculous but they are convenient and have history

Yes it does mean no overall winner but its fair, checkable and produces exciting boats. Harsh on boats that are between those lengths, but in time people will just build to that (and no different to the transitions between handicaps in the past).

 

[(p)Irate]

Of course none of this justifies the position of the AS Rating office which take the view that it is not their job to verify data just send the form to IRC for a ridiculous fee.

I doubt if anyone in the AS Rating office had the expertise to even do an ORCi inclination.

And then you have one person from AS saying that if you have a one-design sports boat/trailable you don't need to get measured for CBH if a rating exists, while the AS Rating Office tells you that you do need to get measured.

 

[Goodvibes]

From the other thread discussing this

Get's odder and odder.

 

[[email protected]]

One of the more straightforward options is for all serious events is to restrict it to things that can be easily checked (as per many short-handed events). So:
Monohull or multihull
LOA is under 30'; 40' etc (and yes I know imperial measurements might be ridiculous but they are convenient and have history

Yes it does mean no overall winner but its fair, checkable and produces exciting boats. Harsh on boats that are between those lengths, but in time people will just build to that (and no different to the transitions between handicaps in the past).

For all the merit in this idea, designs would likely go the way of length restricted box rule classes like the Mini 650 (series) and Classe 40 - high form stability.... there's a whole discussion in another thread on that.

I don't have an answer.

 

[Jethrow]

and how long do you think the Beneteau 40 guy would hang around the sport racing level with the Classe 40?

 

[The Dark Knight]

LOL