260 Mass Shootings 160 Days, When Will it be Too Much?

Burning Man

Super Anarchist
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Back to the desert
Like I said, if you're afraid, do something else. No one forces you to drive the empty highway, loaded with middle-eastern dudes ready to kill you.

There is a huge difference between being afraid and being prepared. That's like saying if you're scared of your airplane catching on fire, don't carry a fire extinguisher - just stop flying. Right?
 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
That's 100% fair. I think the facts will eventually come out. The early predictions are usually wrong.

And you are correct, I (we) do not know their TTPs or their orders. But I seriously struggle to understand how all those armed and armored cops could stand around that long knowing there was a shitbag inside killing kids. And at least one cop allegedly went in and saved his own kid.

I don't in any way suggest rushing in headlong and blind at the first gunshot. But the growing body of evadents in previous mass shooting lessons learned is: time is of the essence in these situations. That the CBP team finally said "Fuck it" and went in anyway and ended it will likely not look good for the locals.

I don't think the investigation is not going to go well for them. I'm happy to be wrong, but in this case - I don't think so.
The barricade situation call means the OIC did not think killing was still going on and they had him contained. A decision to evac the kids from adjacent rooms before starting the fire fight.
 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
Hoo boy @Mark K isnt going to like this assessment from the head of Texas’s DPS

At the top of his remarks before the Texas Senate Committee, the director of the Texas Department of Public Safety said there was "compelling evidence" the law enforcement response to the Uvalde shooting was a failure.

Director Steven McCraw noted it had been 28 days since the shooting, and there remains much to be done before the investigation is completed and presented to the district attorney.
He wasn't on the scene and spoke from the hip. How is his 3 minute claim holding up?

Cops like him, at the state level, are frequently more politician than officer. Safety tip: Never get between a politician and a microphone.
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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But is that what happened?
It was either executed according to plan, in which case the plans were fucked, showing the incompetence of leadership.
Or it was execution regardless of plans, in which case the execution was fucked, showing the incompetence of leadership.
 

Raz'r

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The barricade situation call means the OIC did not think killing was still going on and they had him contained. A decision to evac the kids from adjacent rooms before starting the fire fight.
the corollary was, to let the teachers and kids in the classroom bleed out.
 

Raz'r

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Yes, but assault rifle + close range + little kids + the example of Sandy Hook, would you assume there were a lot of wounded in there?
how can you not? how many would it be worthwhile to attempt to save?

Why even bother HAVING police if they let kids die like this?
 

Blue Crab

benthivore
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It's been 28 days. Is there anything in Uvalde, Tx (pop 16K with Hispanics @ 13K) more pressing than sorting this out?

One thing that stinks is laying all this on Chief Arrendondo. He's an apparent fuckup for sure but the Uv cops on scene that let this continue on and on and on and on because they lacked the okay or any direction at all are no different than all the cops standing around watching the cop killing George Floyd.

Lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way.

My take is you don't apply for a cop job in Uvalde, TX if you're on the way up in your career. All those "officers" swore to do their duty [the writing tickets and shit] until their duty [to protect] became apparent. They lied. They should all be jailed. They're likely all judgement proof but at min, they should be required to pay all their salary money from Uv PD back. All of them.

Could anyone here hire any of these guys for anything beyond day labor?
 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
how can you not? how many would it be worthwhile to attempt to save?

Why even bother HAVING police if they let kids die like this?
How many wounded kids came out of Sandy Hook? This is not a job for pearl clutchers. You have to make tough calls, be willing to choose between bad options, it may be all you have.

Police? Who else is going to evac the rest of the school, contain and take out the perp? National Guard isn't set up for quick reaction. Might be a day before they assemble and show up.
 

Raz'r

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How many wounded kids came out of Sandy Hook? This is not a job for pearl clutchers. You have to make tough calls, be willing to choose between bad options, it may be all you have.

Police? Who else is going to evac the rest of the school, contain and take out the perp? National Guard isn't set up for quick reaction. Might be a day before they assemble and show up.
Yet, in this case, the border control was there in less than an hour and decided to do something about it.
 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
It's been 28 days. Is there anything in Uvalde, Tx (pop 16K with Hispanics @ 13K) more pressing than sorting this out?

One thing that stinks is laying all this on Chief Arrendondo. He's an apparent fuckup for sure but the Uv cops on scene that let this continue on and on and on and on because they lacked the okay or any direction at all are no different than all the cops standing around watching the cop killing George Floyd.

Lead, follow, or get the fuck out of the way.

My take is you don't apply for a cop job in Uvalde, TX if you're on the way up in your career. All those "officers" swore to do their duty [the writing tickets and shit] until their duty [to protect] became apparent. They lied. They should all be jailed. They're likely all judgement proof but at min, they should be required to pay all their salary money from Uv PD back. All of them.

Could anyone here hire any of these guys for anything beyond day labor?

The vast majority of the nation has come to the same conclusion. Thanks to CNN, FOX and co, and prior to the investigation, we all KNOW the only acceptable determinations of it is they were cowards and/or grossly incompetent.


And we wonder why they've lawyered-up...
 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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The vast majority of the nation has come to the same conclusion. Thanks to CNN, FOX and co, and prior to the investigation, we all KNOW the only acceptable determinations of it is they were cowards and/or grossly incompetent.


And we wonder why they've lawyered-up...
Of course, they lawyered up. There's no need to wonder why.
 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
When the dying, injured 4th graders called 911 ... yes.
The investigation will show when the barricade-situation call was made and when those calls came in. But I will say that even with those calls, it might still have been the right call not to move immediately. If the evac had a lot of kids exposed nearby, you might justifiably choose to let it finish, if it won't take much time, before starting a fire fight near them.
 

Blue Crab

benthivore
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The investigation will show when the barricade-situation call was made and when those calls came in. But I will say that even with those calls, it might still have been the right call not to move immediately. If the evac had a lot of kids exposed nearby, you might justifiably choose to let it finish, if it won't take much time, before starting a fire fight near them.
Life is about results or reasons why not.
 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
Life is about results or reasons why not.
Sometimes that's indeed the case. We loves us our scapegoats.

The Italians sentenced a bunch of people to prison time for failing to predict an earthquake.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.11640

At the end of a 13-month trial, six scientists and one government official have been found guilty of manslaughter and sentenced to six years in prison. The verdict was based on how they assessed and communicated risk before the earthquake that hit the city of L'Aquila on 6 April 2009, killing 309 people (see 'Scientists on trial: At Fault?').
 

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