260 Mass Shootings 160 Days, When Will it be Too Much?

Clove Hitch

Halyard licker
10,197
1,497
around and about
@Mark_K I'm so glad when my school was shot up the cops did the opposite of what the clowns in Ulvade did. That's why we ended up with one critical and several minor wounded instead of a bunch of dead.

Unclear why you hitched your wagon to demonstrably incompetent and feckless police. They went against their own manual, common sense and a ton of other stuff-- the Chief on scene with no radio and "didn't know" he was in charge? These are the guys you are making excuses for? Yikes.
 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
@Mark_K I'm so glad when my school was shot up the cops did the opposite of what the clowns in Ulvade did. That's why we ended up with one critical and several minor wounded instead of a bunch of dead.

Unclear why you hitched your wagon to demonstrably incompetent and feckless police. They went against their own manual, common sense and a ton of other stuff-- the Chief on scene with no radio and "didn't know" he was in charge? These are the guys you are making excuses for? Yikes.
I'm pointing out how abysmal the reporting by the national news has been on this aspect is all. Not defending the police. If saying we must wait for more info before judging the the police in this offends you that's to me a your-issue not a me-issue. It's just plain common sense. Fifth and last time I'm responding to your insistence that I'm just defending police. You're just being a jerk about it now.

Btw.. please forward or provide a link to their training manual for active shooter situations. I tried to find it but couldn't.
 

giegs

Anarchist
577
288
Arid
I had posted a copy way up thread, but it was with a burner link now expired.

Title of the doc is "Texas Commision on Law Enforcement: Active Shooter Response for School-Based Law Enforcement"
 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
I had posted a copy way up thread, but it was with a burner link now expired.

Title of the doc is "Texas Commision on Law Enforcement: Active Shooter Response for School-Based Law Enforcement"
Found it, and that's the ticket. Not 100% sure that's what that town used but it's highly likely it was. Leads to a word doc that has this:

An event that starts as an active shooter event can easily morph into a hostage crisis and vice versa. The patrol response and search tactics for dealing with active shooters and hostage/barricade situations are starkly different.

And a lot of other stuff. Some here have difficulty imagining there can be anything but an immediate need to rush the shooter in all cases, even quote this manual as saying so. Stems from a misinterpretation of the Columbine inspired changes. In that one they didn't even try to enter the fucking building and contain the guy. That is what changed. However the possibility the situation can morph into a barricade situation is covered.
 
Last edited:

Fakenews

Super Anarchist
13,522
1,766
Found it, and that's the ticket. Not 100% sure that's what that town used but it's highly likely it was. Leads to a word doc that has this:

An event that starts as an active shooter event can easily morph into a hostage crisis and vice versa. The patrol response and search tactics for dealing with active shooters and hostage/barricade situations are starkly different.

And a lot of other stuff. Some here have difficulty imagining there can be anything but an immediate need to rush the shooter in all cases, even quote this manual as saying so. Stems from a misinterpretation of the Columbine inspired changes. In that one they didn't even try to enter the fucking building and contain the guy. That is what changed. However the possibility the situation can morph into a barricade situation is covered.
More spin from Mark. He imagines that taking more than an hour to breach an unlocked door while children are getting shot is reasonable because going in recklessly with out ALL the info would put their (the cops) lives at risk.

Remember according to Mark we have to put ourselves in their shoes. They didn’t want to get shot and sitting tight was the best way to do so.
 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
More spin from Mark. He imagines that taking more than an hour to breach an unlocked door while children are getting shot is reasonable because going in recklessly with out ALL the info would put their (the cops) lives at risk.

Remember according to Mark we have to put ourselves in their shoes. They didn’t want to get shot and sitting tight was the best way to do so.

I'll give ya this much, if there were officers outside that door listening to a lot of gunfire happening within and they didn't even try to open the door there's no forgiving that.
 

Fakenews

Super Anarchist
13,522
1,766
I'll give ya this much, if there were officers outside that door listening to a lot of gunfire happening within and they didn't even try to open the door there's no forgiving that.
Ah itt would be bad if there was A LOT of gunfire. Some gunfire not so much. No gunfire? Sit tight wait him out, those kids bleeding out just needed to hang on a bit longer.
 

Fakenews

Super Anarchist
13,522
1,766
To be fair to some of the cops they knew not going in was wrong. They knew kids were dying.
https://www.rawstory.com/uvalde-texas/?traffic_source=Connatix

The officers in the hallway of Robb Elementary wanted to get inside classrooms 111 and 112 — immediately. One officer’s daughter was inside. Another officer had gotten a call from his wife, a teacher, who told him she was bleeding to death.

Two closed doors and a wall stood between them and an 18-year-old with an AR-15 who had opened fire on children and teachers inside the connected classrooms. A Halligan bar — an ax-like forcible-entry tool used by firefighters to get through locked doors — was available. Ballistic shields were arriving on the scene. So was plenty of firepower, including at least two rifles. Some officers were itching to move.

One such officer, a special agent at the Texas Department of Public Safety, had arrived around 20 minutes after the shooting started. He immediately asked: Are there still kids in the classrooms?

“If there is, then they just need to go in,” the agent said.

But instead until CBP sacked up they play the “I’m not going in you goi In!“ game
 

Clove Hitch

Halyard licker
10,197
1,497
around and about
I'll give ya this much, if there were officers outside that door listening to a lot of gunfire happening within and they didn't even try to open the door there's no forgiving that.
What if there were kids on the other side of the door asking 911 dispatch where the police were and pleading for help?
 

Fakenews

Super Anarchist
13,522
1,766
With a barricade situation call that's up to the OIC who has the overall picture. Officers doing containment would be unaware of those calls unless informed, and they would probably not be informed unless it came along with an order to go in.
what if the OIC wasn’t in charge of anything?
 

Blue Crab

benthivore
15,388
2,388
Outer Banks
1655852133125.png
 

Clove Hitch

Halyard licker
10,197
1,497
around and about
With a barricade situation call that's up to the OIC who has the overall picture. Officers doing containment would be unaware of those calls unless informed, and they would probably not be informed unless it came along with an order to go in.

There is audio of the feckless cops being told they have kids on the other side of the door on the phone. Do you realize, at this point- that you are the only one speculating at this point and those of us criticizing the police response are dealing in facts? What is the Uvalde PD to you? It's just odd to see you take a fact free flyer and then double down.

 

Mark_K

Super Anarchist
There is audio of the feckless cops being told they have kids on the other side of the door on the phone. Do you realize, at this point- that you are the only one speculating at this point and those of us criticizing the police response are dealing in facts? What is the Uvalde PD to you? It's just odd to see you take a fact free flyer and then double down.


I got as far as "We don't know at what point in the 78 minutes this happened" and knew you aren't serious.

Might have happened right before they did go in.
 

Clove Hitch

Halyard licker
10,197
1,497
around and about
What makes youj so sure?
The journalism up-thread that states cops received 911 call from kids inside pleading for help 40 mins after shooting started. And the feckless local PD still refused to breach. It took Border Patrol ignoring the order to stand down to take the shooter out.

You might want to read a bit more before continuing to make excuses. The reality to every "reasonable excuse scenario" you offer has turned out to be far worse- more cowardly- more incompetent with mistakes that baffle other LE- but not you.
 
Top