260 Mass Shootings 160 Days, When Will it be Too Much?

[Not for nothing]

What would you think if firemen stopped going into fiery buildings where people were trapped just because it looked too dangerous? I guess you think that police are only good for giving out speeding tickets

View attachment 512122

But don't do 60 in a 55,

They can only go after soft targets

OK sometimes hard targets; Police officer catches copulating couple, picks them up at dock, deposits both in jail (msn.com)

 

[βhyde]

For those that missed it: it:  https://www.secretservice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2021-03/USSS Averting Targeted School Violence.2021.03.pdf

I'm waiting for the USSS reports:

Averting Targeted Grocery Store Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Concert Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Night Club Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Theater Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Church Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Synagog Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Work Place Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Mosque Violence.pdf

Then we should have a much better idea of how to completely lock down society, making it more free, so that we can enjoy the benefits of an armed population.

 

[Burning Man]

I'm waiting for the USSS reports:

Averting Targeted Grocery Store Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Concert Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Night Club Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Theater Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Church Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Synagog Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Work Place Violence.pdf

Averting Targeted Mosque Violence.pdf

Then we should have a much better idea of how to completely lock down society, making it more free, so that we can enjoy the benefits of an armed population.

You probably didn't even bother to read it, huh?

 

[Burning Man]

Not looking good for the cops:





 






View in browser | nytimes.com

 









BREAKING NEWS






Border Patrol agents arrived far earlier than disclosed, but the Uvalde police initially kept them from entering the school, two officials said.





Friday, May 27, 2022 12:13 PM ET





Agents from Border Patrol and Immigration and Customs Enforcement arrived at some point between 12 p.m. and 12:10 p.m., according to the officials — far earlier than previously known. But they did not breach the adjoining classrooms of the school where the gunman had locked himself in until a little before 1 p.m.





Read the latest

 

[badlatitude]

 

[Sol Rosenberg]

See..... I told you (whoever it was) that mental health issues about the scumbag would eventually come out.  There is ALWAYS a history of stuff like this.  People don't just snap overnight and go from being a model citizen to someone who shoots your grandmother and then 19 elementary kids in the same day.  

Not a big stretch. It would seem to take a certain mental state to kill a room full of children. Throw in the pressures of being a teenage intel and there were red flags. Gov. Abbott and his FU, I Got Mine gov’t doesn’t have a good record on mental health either. 
However, despite our shitty record on dealing with mental health in the US, we are not an outlier on mental health, like we are on gun violence. 

 

 

[Steam Flyer]

Your sarcasm aside, I think there could be effective ways to add known mental health issues to the BGC system.  But like anything - GIGO. 

I'll say it again - every one of these mass shooters of late had well know track records of mental health issues - whether it be clinical or online behavior.  The issue is no one is speaking up.  And when people DO speak up, the authorities do nothing with it.  The parkland shitstain was an obvious case.  We have got to educate people to "See something, say something".  

Everyone needs to read the Secret Service report I posted here a couple of days ago regarding interventions and protections against school shootings.  But it's addressing root causes and getting at the source - and that's just too hard for your elk to do.  So moar gun bans are the only answer.

Sounds like you're advocating for "red flag" laws. This is a very sore subject, but IMHO seems to be subject to wider agreement than other forms of "gun bans" (which is what it is).

- DSK

 

[Lark]

I'm sort of in the category of "Civilians don't really need Body armor".  I don't know of anyone other than the tacticool who walk around with plate carriers and Kevlar helmets on a day to day basis.  I personally would make that stuff a lot harder to get.  The only civilians wearing body armor these days are the mass shooters who know they're going to get engaged by the PO-Leece.  I wouldn't have an issue if this stuff were treated like an NFA item.  

Doesn’t it seem backward to outlaw a defensive article, but not limit the weapons it protects against?   That seems the exact opposite of Hamilton’s citizen soldiers needing to protect themselves from a failed democracy.   
 

FWIW your earlier proposal of needing a permit (presumably, to avoid waiting periods), which requires a background check, and needing to be 21 does seem like a starting point.   I still want to reduce rate of fire, so there is at least a chance to defend or escape.   It seems to be a matter of when, not if, a slaughter happens in your neighborhood.  
 

edit.   Further reduce rate of fire.  We already heavily regulate hand held machine guns, so they must not be small arms-even if they fire pistol ammo. 

 

[d'ranger]

Turns out the manufacturer of the gun(s) used in Uvalde decided to cancel their booth at the NRA. The one listed is $2,000 and advertised as the perfect home defense weapon. They also give deeply to politicians, all Republicans. 

Give it up for Daniel Defense of Georgia! You know you want one. or 2 or enough for the entire family.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/politics/texas/article/uvalde-rifle-maker-17203036.php

 

[Jules]

It's their job?

Is there some kind of union agreement regarding the maximum number of times you risk your life for your $25 / hour?

My personal choice is fucking zero times per hour and if I was to be a cop I'd hope the society I was working for wanted to tip the scales in my favour for that.

Oh hell yeah!  Fuck those innocent little kids!  You're not being paid enough to risk your life for them!   Your family must be proud.

 

[giegs]

The danger of being an officer is generally exaggerated.

#22 on this list using BLS data. The fatal injury rate for officers (14 per 100,000 workers) is the same as for maintenance workers and only 12% of loggers.

 

[Burning Man]

Sounds like you're advocating for "red flag" laws. This is a very sore subject, but IMHO seems to be subject to wider agreement than other forms of "gun bans" (which is what it is).

- DSK

Are you new here?  Or only like to hear the sound of your own voice?  I have advocated LOUDLY for RF laws here on numerous occasions.  

 

[Fakenews]

Sounds like you're advocating for "red flag" laws. This is a very sore subject, but IMHO seems to be subject to wider agreement than other forms of "gun bans" (which is what it is).

- DSK

One red flag should be the purchase of large amounts of ammo.  Ideally over 25 rounds but certainly over 100.  This lunatic had over 1000 rounds.  One thousand rounds of ammo purchased should get you a visit from law enforcement every time.  Don’t think Jeffie would like that kind of red flag law.

 

[Mark_K]

... And should we all forget that dear old "Alex" was killed by a pistol shot by Aaron Burr, in a fit of blustering bravado?

 Stupid mother fucker thought that guns were the answer..... Well.... They were, and the answer was "NO!".

Minor historical correction: In the custom of dueling in force at the time the one who is challenged selects the weapons. Alex was the one challenged, and probably selected pistols because that was the customary choice at the time, but he selected them nonetheless. 

  He didn't have to though, George Washington deflected several challenges by selecting sabres, with the dual to be fought with each person remaining on their side of a small tidal stream about 3 ft wide. Every challenger withdrew the challenge, and George was exceptionally tall and had very long arms. 

 Perhaps the most appropriate deflection of a challenge was between two politicians. The challenged opted for shovels loaded with pig shit at five paces. This could be the customary way to settle affairs of honor today. We just need to make it happen.  

 

[Burning Man]

Doesn’t it seem backward to outlaw a defensive article, but not limit the weapons it protects against?   That seems the exact opposite of Hamilton’s citizen soldiers needing to protect themselves from a failed democracy.   
 

FWIW your earlier proposal of needing a permit (presumably, to avoid waiting periods), which requires a background check, and needing to be 21 does seem like a starting point.   I still want to reduce rate of fire, so there is at least a chance to defend or escape.   It seems to be a matter of when, not if, a slaughter happens in your neighborhood.  
 

edit.   Further reduce rate of fire.  We already heavily regulate hand held machine guns, so they must not be small arms-even if they fire pistol ammo. 

Sorry, I don't buy the "rate of fire" argument.  The rate of fire of an AR-15 is exactly the same rate of fire of any other semi-auto weapon - whether it be handgun, rifle or shotty.  Its one round for every trigger pull.  There is NOTHING speshul or unique about an AR-15 in this regard.  

Furthermore, some of the highest body counts in US mass shooting history have been with "ordinary" gunz.  The VA Tech shooter killed 32 using a basic 9mm handgun as well as some dogball handguns with normal mag capacity.  10 rounders for the .22DBs and 15 rounders for the 9mm.  The TX Clock tower shooter primarily used a Rem 700 bolt action rifle with a 3 shot internal mag capacity and he whacked 18 from long ranges.  Campo Elías Delgado killed 29 in a restaurant in Columbia with a 6-shot .32 revolver.  I would even argue that high rate of fire likely SAVES lives because the shooter is not taking careful aim and instead spraying bullets.  You might get a lot of injuries, but not the same body count.  Its a written in blood common Army doctrine that high rates of fire are more for suppression than actually trying to kill anyone.  It wastes ammo and is not effective fire.  I know several Special Forces operators and they all consistently say single shot semi-auto aimed fire is the preferred method of taking down someone or lots of folks in a crowded space like if they had to kick a door down and do an entry.  A perfect example is the sick fuck shooter in Aurora, CO who had an entire theater full of people captive and had a 100 round drum mag on his AR-15 and only got 12.  A deliberate, well trained and disciplined shooter would have tripled or quadrupled that body count. 

And I don't say that to be macabre or take any delight in saying that, but them be the facts.  It's why I wonder if alls y'all calling for a "training requirement" really understands what you're asking for.  Do we really want to make these sick fucks BETTER and more efficient at killing?  I don't think so.  Be careful what you ask for.  

 

[Fakenews]

Minor historical correction: In the custom of dueling in force at the time the one who is challenged selects the weapons. Alex was the one challenged, and probably selected pistols because that was the customary choice at the time, but he selected them nonetheless. 

  He didn't have to though, George Washington deflected several challenges by selecting sabres, with the dual to be fought with each person remaining on their side of a small tidal stream about 3 ft wide. Every challenger withdrew the challenge, and George was exceptionally tall and had very long arms. 

 Perhaps the most appropriate deflection of a challenge was between two politicians. The challenged opted for shovels loaded with pig shit at five paces. This could be the customary way to settle affairs of honor today. We just need to make it happen.  

We could make the weapon truly terrifying.  Pies at one pace apart.  Biden vs Trump.

 

[Burning Man]

One red flag should be the purchase of large ampounts of ammo.  Ideally over 25 rounds but certainly over 100.  This lunatic had over 1000 rounds.  One thousand rounds of ammo purchased should get you a visit from law enforcement every time.  Don’t think Jeffie would like that kind of red flag law.

Fuck awf, Gaytor boi.  I go through 1000 rounds in a weekend if I'm training for or competing in a match.  

is someone with 10K rounds in their garage more dangerous than someone with 100?  How hard do you think it would be to haul 10K rounds into a school building?  Maybe if you got all the kids and teachers to help you carry in the boxes first......  

 

[Burning Man]

Perhaps the most appropriate deflection of a challenge was between two politicians. The challenged opted for shovels loaded with pig shit at five paces. This could be the customary way to settle affairs of honor today. We just need to make it happen.  

Are you kidding???  The current politicians would LOVE to wallow in pig shit!  They like it.

 

[Mark_K]

BS - its firefighters jobs to go into burning buildings to save people - even at great risk to themselves - for about the same pay as cops.  

Imagine if the first responders at the WTC on 9/11/2001 waited outside until they could fully assess the danger.

Look, I fully understand the massive desire to come home to your family every night.  But if you're not willing to actually "Protect and Serve", then you're in the wrong fucking job.  And it doesn't mean that you rush in doing a bayonet charge.  But they fucking TRAIN for this exact scenario.  There are ways to enter a building in these scenarios that still affords you some level of protection.  Especially against a lone gunman.  And If he's waiting to ambush you as you come through the front door, he's not in the classroom killing kids.  Think about that.  

Firefighters assess the situation and sometimes decide rushing in would be a suicidal act and don't, and with an awareness there may be people inside. Same applies to cops. 

 There was one guy in charge, and he was at the nexus of the information chains, and none of the troops at the pointy end are.  It's a military protocol, everybody is TRAINED to obey orders 99.9% of the time.  

 

[Fakenews]

Fuck awf, Gaytor boi.  I go through 1000 rounds in a weekend if I'm training for or competing in a match.  

is someone with 10K rounds in their garage more dangerous than someone with 100?  How hard do you think it would be to haul 10K rounds into a school building?  Maybe if you got all the kids and teachers to help you carry in the boxes first......  

You should definitely get a visit right after Tedious Tom.  The person with 1,000 rounds is writ large much more dangerous than the one with 100.  His mental illness has reached an alarming state.  

As for lagging around 1000 rounds?  Well I know it would be a struggle for you as a smaller dude but it wasn’t too daunting for the 18year old. He carried more than the average US soldier 315 rounds in one back pack.  He could have hit 1K if he had a duffel bag.  As it is he had 60 magazines with him.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/uvalde-shooting-more-ammunition-than-us-soldiers-carry-rounds-into-combat/

Edit.  According to the article he brought 1,600 rounds though he left a bunch outside.