DA-WOODY
Super Anarchist
I won't say someone could shit a more solid piece of woodwork
butt I'll post this
Jus Postin
butt I'll post this
Jus Postin
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65- by 32-foot catamaran 3200sqft of living space
- Thread starter U20guy2
- Start date
Timmys_Trick_Turkey
Super Anarchist
- 1,604
- 2
Examination of the brand on one of the plywood sheets shows it as having a code of 24/0, but it is also stamped NOT FOR WALLS. Other sheets have different brands.
Typical sheathing and Structural I sheathing have a two-number span rating (e.g., 24/0, 24/16,
32/16, 48/24, etc). For a two-number span rating, the number on the left identifies the span
rating (truss or rafter spacing) if the panel is used in a roof application and the number on the
right identifies the span rating (joist spacing) if the panel is used in a subfloor application. Panels
with the number zero on the right are not allowed to be used in subfloor applications.
http://www.tecotested.com/techtips/pdf/tt_gradestampps1ps2
So if the plywood is not for walls, and its not for subfloors, then its only use is trusses and roofing. Some of them are branded clearly as construction grade c-x.
It looks as though he has either bought a whole lot of miscellaneous sheets as a job lot, or collected a motley collection as leftovers from building jobs...
Why am I left with the feeling that a divorce settlement has meant that Rod had to empty out his shed .?
Typical sheathing and Structural I sheathing have a two-number span rating (e.g., 24/0, 24/16,
32/16, 48/24, etc). For a two-number span rating, the number on the left identifies the span
rating (truss or rafter spacing) if the panel is used in a roof application and the number on the
right identifies the span rating (joist spacing) if the panel is used in a subfloor application. Panels
with the number zero on the right are not allowed to be used in subfloor applications.
http://www.tecotested.com/techtips/pdf/tt_gradestampps1ps2
So if the plywood is not for walls, and its not for subfloors, then its only use is trusses and roofing. Some of them are branded clearly as construction grade c-x.
It looks as though he has either bought a whole lot of miscellaneous sheets as a job lot, or collected a motley collection as leftovers from building jobs...
Why am I left with the feeling that a divorce settlement has meant that Rod had to empty out his shed .?
dyslexic dog
Super Anarchist
I'm reading "sunburned country" Never knew how many things could kill you in Austrailia.
Pertinacious Tom
Importunate Member
wombat6025 said:
Like HR, at least she got up and did something, and we should all celebrate that.
Speaking of celebrating questionably useful acts, my dog managed to drool all the way over the top of her own nose yesterday.
floating dutchman
Super Anarchist
Most of what you say is spot on, but you do make a lot of assumptions.
Most obvious is about timber. 4 by 2's are not planed without drying in a kiln first, they are NOT planed wet, and wrapped up to dry.
Knot's are not always a week point in timber, wood is denser around the knots and can be a strong point. You have to run the dried, planed timber through a stress grader to find out, Here stress graded timber has die markings on it showing the stress-graders results (different colours).
MMM, none of HR's timbers are die-marked
Also a lot about what you said about water intrusion is probably 100% correct, but is also biased on you assumptions that nothing was water proofed before assembly.
If we are going to have a fair punt at how long this "yacht" will last, we need assessment’s biased on fact, not 'what TTT think's about it could have been built'
It's lasted days so far!
So are the bet's on week's, months or is someone going to go years?
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Steam Flyer
Sophisticated Yet Humble
OOoo boy, a guy who can't figure out basic carpentry is going to have a try at electrical wiring? I wonder how many stars? This is going to be good... probably very short (pardon the pun) but good.
"Why can't Mr Fork and Mrs Outlet be friends?"
HR shouldn't have washed it. A protective layer of dirt would help with longevity, plus everyone knows that one of the worst things you can do to a boat is to get it all wet.
FB- Doug
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billy backstay
Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
"Wiring is not a hobby - hire a licensed Electrician"
ramwel2010
Anarchist
- 658
- 0
Expanding foam (the kind HR would use) absorbs water like a sponge. It would only make things worse.
Structural foam meant for the marine environment and expanding foam are two different things. Ever see the expanding foam flotation in the floor of an old runabout? Always saturated with water. Structural foam is very expensive and intended to be encapsulated in a structural layup of epoxy and fibreglass or aramid cloth.
Neither structural foam, nor expanding foam, has any chance of saving this tragedy.
Structural foam meant for the marine environment and expanding foam are two different things. Ever see the expanding foam flotation in the floor of an old runabout? Always saturated with water. Structural foam is very expensive and intended to be encapsulated in a structural layup of epoxy and fibreglass or aramid cloth.
Neither structural foam, nor expanding foam, has any chance of saving this tragedy.
Timmys_Trick_Turkey
Super Anarchist
- 1,604
- 2
The painting with epoxy didnt occur until the hulls were assembled. See page 2 for further details. The mill identification number on the label photographed, is not one of the main American mills. It is a small, labour intensive operation: .
>1.2.1 Log sorting and barking
1.2.2 Log sawing or breakdown
1.2.3 Sorting and grading
1.2.4 Drying
1.2.5 Regrading and surfacing
Sawmilling is a less sophisticated activity of the mechanical forest industries. It implies a certain number of operations from handling and transportation of logs to timber drying, sorting and classification which require different types of energy. Whereas in developing countries most of the processes are highly mechanized and the energy requirements are met basically with the generation of a few kW to drive the main saws. The rest of the processes are carried out using animal power and low-cost manpower.
Nevertheless, independently of the nature of the processes and activities involved, all actions aimed to save energy require a detailed analysis of existing processes and possible solutions.
Figure 1 provides a layout of a typical plant and a description of the main processes to familiarize the reader.
1.2.1 Log sorting and barking
On arrival at the mill's storage yard, logs are sorted and stored according to species, diameter, length and end-use, etc. Sufficient quantities are stockpiled to ensure the sawmill's continuous operation, particularly during adverse weather conditions when log extraction and supply from the forests may be adversely affected.
Transportation and handling of logs vary from mill to mill and largely depend on the capacity of the sawmill operation and the size of the loss received. Manual and animal power, as may be used in small portable sawmill units, through to log-carrying front-end loaders and overhead cranes indicate the wide variety of handling equipment currently in use.
Figure 1. Sawmilling - A simplied process flow
Debarking of logs, whether it be undertaken manually or by mechanical debarkers, in the forests or at the mill site, is now becoming a generally adopted practice. Debarking is to safeguard saws and other equipment from undue wear and damage that would otherwise result from stones, metal and other such contraries embedded in the bark; debarking also facilitates the head sawyer to evaluate the timber. Log washers may also be used to remove any remaining sand or dirt that may adher to the logs' surface.
1.2.2 Log sawing or breakdown
Before the log is presented to the headrig for breakdown, it is cut to the longest permissible straight length with a cut-off saw, whereupon it is loaded onto the headsaw carriage and positioned in such a manner as to allow the operator to achieve a sawing pattern, which will result in the optimum production of sawntimber with the minimum of waste. The pattern of cut is largely determined by the dimension and condition of the log, as well as the market requirements for the widths and thicknesses of the lumber.
Sawing of the log is achieved by the use of a bandsaw or a circular saw with a second saw mounted vertically above the first in the event of sawing large diameter logs. A log carriage conveys the log through the headsaw on which the log may be clamped and turned, so as to enable it to be presented to the headsaw in order to achieve the best sawing pattern.
Following the headrig, further breakdown of slabs, flitches and cants takes place in the resaw, which enables the wood to be upgraded; thick slabs being sawn into planks and the flitches and cants sawn into planks and boards. The rough round edges of the pieces coming from the headrig and resaws are removed by either a circular saw or chipper edger so as to produce standardized widths as required.
On leaving the headrig, resaw or edger, the lumber is cut to standardized lengths, edges squared and defects removed by the use of one or more fixed or moveable trimming saws, whereupon the lumber proceeds to be sorted and graded.
1.2.3 Sorting and grading
The sawn and trimmed timber is sorted according to thickness, width, length, quality, grade and species depending on the market requirements; such an activity may be undertaken manually or, in the case of mills where low-cost labour is not available, by mechanized sorters. Grading is a means to segregate the lumber according to the overall quality, direction of grain, presence of knots and defects, as well as general appearance, etc.
To protect the sawntimber against attack from fungi and insects, as well as to inhibit the tendency of air-dried lumber to check and split, the ends may be brushed either manually or mechanically dipped in a suitably prepared chemical solution. Wax or paint is applied to the end-grain of lumber to be air-dried, either by brush or spraying, so as to act as a sealant in order to bring about a slower drying of the extremities and hence, give rise to a more uniform drying of the lumber.
1.2.4 Drying
Sawntimber that is not sold green is either air- or kiln-dried, thus improving its marketability. By drying and lowering the moisture content to an acceptable level its value is enhanced by virtue of the fact that the timber is dimensionally stabilized and its strength and colour improved; also a reduction in weight lowers transport costs.
Air drying involves the stacking of sawntimber in piles in the open or under sheds on suitably prepared ground, in such a manner that they are exposed to a good flow of air until such time that the required moisture content is attained.
Although air drying involves minimal capital and operating costs it does require a large amount of land, involves large inventories which constitute a fire risk, and the conditions and rate of drying are very much beyond the yard operator's control.
Kiln drying, on the other hand, enables the sawntimber to dry in a closed and controlled environment where temperature, air circulation and humidity may be regulated so as to achieve the most economical drying conditions without resulting in degrade. The two most common kilns are the batch and progressive type. The former dries the timber in chambers as a batch charge, whereas the latter dries the timber whilst it progresses through the length of the kiln on trucks.
As kiln-drying of sawntimber accounts for some 70-90 percent of the total energy consumed in the sawmilling process, it is now becoming a widely accepted practice in the sawmilling industry to use its residues as a fuel source, the energy value of which may even be surplus to the mill's requirements.
1.2.5 Regrading and surfacing
Before stacking the sawntimber for storage, it is normally inspected for any defects which may have resulted during the drying process, such as split-ends, loose knots, etc., which may be removed by trimming and therefore upgrading its value.
Further upgrading may be effected by surface planing with the use of rotary knife planers or abrasive belts, according to the needs of the market.
>1.2.1 Log sorting and barking
1.2.2 Log sawing or breakdown
1.2.3 Sorting and grading
1.2.4 Drying
1.2.5 Regrading and surfacing
Sawmilling is a less sophisticated activity of the mechanical forest industries. It implies a certain number of operations from handling and transportation of logs to timber drying, sorting and classification which require different types of energy. Whereas in developing countries most of the processes are highly mechanized and the energy requirements are met basically with the generation of a few kW to drive the main saws. The rest of the processes are carried out using animal power and low-cost manpower.
Nevertheless, independently of the nature of the processes and activities involved, all actions aimed to save energy require a detailed analysis of existing processes and possible solutions.
Figure 1 provides a layout of a typical plant and a description of the main processes to familiarize the reader.
1.2.1 Log sorting and barking
On arrival at the mill's storage yard, logs are sorted and stored according to species, diameter, length and end-use, etc. Sufficient quantities are stockpiled to ensure the sawmill's continuous operation, particularly during adverse weather conditions when log extraction and supply from the forests may be adversely affected.
Transportation and handling of logs vary from mill to mill and largely depend on the capacity of the sawmill operation and the size of the loss received. Manual and animal power, as may be used in small portable sawmill units, through to log-carrying front-end loaders and overhead cranes indicate the wide variety of handling equipment currently in use.
Figure 1. Sawmilling - A simplied process flow
Debarking of logs, whether it be undertaken manually or by mechanical debarkers, in the forests or at the mill site, is now becoming a generally adopted practice. Debarking is to safeguard saws and other equipment from undue wear and damage that would otherwise result from stones, metal and other such contraries embedded in the bark; debarking also facilitates the head sawyer to evaluate the timber. Log washers may also be used to remove any remaining sand or dirt that may adher to the logs' surface.
1.2.2 Log sawing or breakdown
Before the log is presented to the headrig for breakdown, it is cut to the longest permissible straight length with a cut-off saw, whereupon it is loaded onto the headsaw carriage and positioned in such a manner as to allow the operator to achieve a sawing pattern, which will result in the optimum production of sawntimber with the minimum of waste. The pattern of cut is largely determined by the dimension and condition of the log, as well as the market requirements for the widths and thicknesses of the lumber.
Sawing of the log is achieved by the use of a bandsaw or a circular saw with a second saw mounted vertically above the first in the event of sawing large diameter logs. A log carriage conveys the log through the headsaw on which the log may be clamped and turned, so as to enable it to be presented to the headsaw in order to achieve the best sawing pattern.
Following the headrig, further breakdown of slabs, flitches and cants takes place in the resaw, which enables the wood to be upgraded; thick slabs being sawn into planks and the flitches and cants sawn into planks and boards. The rough round edges of the pieces coming from the headrig and resaws are removed by either a circular saw or chipper edger so as to produce standardized widths as required.
On leaving the headrig, resaw or edger, the lumber is cut to standardized lengths, edges squared and defects removed by the use of one or more fixed or moveable trimming saws, whereupon the lumber proceeds to be sorted and graded.
1.2.3 Sorting and grading
The sawn and trimmed timber is sorted according to thickness, width, length, quality, grade and species depending on the market requirements; such an activity may be undertaken manually or, in the case of mills where low-cost labour is not available, by mechanized sorters. Grading is a means to segregate the lumber according to the overall quality, direction of grain, presence of knots and defects, as well as general appearance, etc.
To protect the sawntimber against attack from fungi and insects, as well as to inhibit the tendency of air-dried lumber to check and split, the ends may be brushed either manually or mechanically dipped in a suitably prepared chemical solution. Wax or paint is applied to the end-grain of lumber to be air-dried, either by brush or spraying, so as to act as a sealant in order to bring about a slower drying of the extremities and hence, give rise to a more uniform drying of the lumber.
1.2.4 Drying
Sawntimber that is not sold green is either air- or kiln-dried, thus improving its marketability. By drying and lowering the moisture content to an acceptable level its value is enhanced by virtue of the fact that the timber is dimensionally stabilized and its strength and colour improved; also a reduction in weight lowers transport costs.
Air drying involves the stacking of sawntimber in piles in the open or under sheds on suitably prepared ground, in such a manner that they are exposed to a good flow of air until such time that the required moisture content is attained.
Although air drying involves minimal capital and operating costs it does require a large amount of land, involves large inventories which constitute a fire risk, and the conditions and rate of drying are very much beyond the yard operator's control.
Kiln drying, on the other hand, enables the sawntimber to dry in a closed and controlled environment where temperature, air circulation and humidity may be regulated so as to achieve the most economical drying conditions without resulting in degrade. The two most common kilns are the batch and progressive type. The former dries the timber in chambers as a batch charge, whereas the latter dries the timber whilst it progresses through the length of the kiln on trucks.
As kiln-drying of sawntimber accounts for some 70-90 percent of the total energy consumed in the sawmilling process, it is now becoming a widely accepted practice in the sawmilling industry to use its residues as a fuel source, the energy value of which may even be surplus to the mill's requirements.
1.2.5 Regrading and surfacing
Before stacking the sawntimber for storage, it is normally inspected for any defects which may have resulted during the drying process, such as split-ends, loose knots, etc., which may be removed by trimming and therefore upgrading its value.
Further upgrading may be effected by surface planing with the use of rotary knife planers or abrasive belts, according to the needs of the market.
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FWIW
There is no structural classification stamp on ply for walls.
All the studs out here all kiln dried and stamped KD. If they are stored outside at the lumberyard or get wet at the boat building site then it kinda negates the KD part although still better than green wood. I haven't seen air dried lumber in a decade or 2. I haven't gone through all the old pics again but I do seem to remember that he was using stud grade 2X4s. While not a superior product it is not necessarily an inferior lumber either and are great at what they are designed to do which is used vertically in wall assembly and for light framing. All of your houses in the US have them. So do a lot of your offices, restaurants etc. We use the shit out of those. Everyone does. I worked for an outfit as a traveling building superintendent for years including northern California and those are used everywhere.
If they were certified for boatbuilding then they would have a BB stamp. Did anyone see a BB stamp?
That was a joke.
There is no structural classification stamp on ply for walls.
All the studs out here all kiln dried and stamped KD. If they are stored outside at the lumberyard or get wet at the boat building site then it kinda negates the KD part although still better than green wood. I haven't seen air dried lumber in a decade or 2. I haven't gone through all the old pics again but I do seem to remember that he was using stud grade 2X4s. While not a superior product it is not necessarily an inferior lumber either and are great at what they are designed to do which is used vertically in wall assembly and for light framing. All of your houses in the US have them. So do a lot of your offices, restaurants etc. We use the shit out of those. Everyone does. I worked for an outfit as a traveling building superintendent for years including northern California and those are used everywhere.
If they were certified for boatbuilding then they would have a BB stamp. Did anyone see a BB stamp?
That was a joke.
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What's the big deal?? I have done this many times!wombat6025 said:
Like HR, at least she got up and did something, and we should all celebrate that.
Speaking of celebrating questionably useful acts, my dog managed to drool all the way over the top of her own nose yesterday.
mikewof
mikewof
- 45,868
- 1,248
Kevlar Edge
Super Anarchist
The black is hot and that will zap you. The white is neutral and that might zap you. The green is ground and usually won't zap you unless you are having a bad day. Always test wires for zapiness with your tongue first. Then the black wire goes to the little prong side of the outlet and the white go to the big prong side. The green goes to the green screw. Stick paper clip in little prong side to make sure you got it right. So that's it for 110V. Is HR reading this?
billy backstay
Backstay, never bought a suit, never went to Vegas
Diarmuid
Super Anarchist
Fixed. The house sparrows have venomous fangs. That's why you never see an Australian w/out a beer in one hand. It's for personal defense.*nods*
βhyde
Super Anarchist
Monkey
Super Anarchist
- 11,254
- 2,871
We just desperately need to change the subject before Gobbles blows a gasket arguing about plywood!
And HR might not be a master electrician, but during his long haul trucking days, he did move a few trailer loads of wire. That counts.
doesitfloat
Anarchist
Well it’s been in the water a week now. Will it last another week? Trying to organize thoughts on how it will fall apart is getting difficult there are so many ways.
Most Likely:
It will slowly sink at its current dock. With bilge pumps now attached it seems likely the seams are leaking and the plywood is losing strength every minute water wicks its way through the hull sheets. There will be a last ditch effort to pull it out of the water. I think it is in the best interest of the marina to let him pull it out. My guess it will be cheaper to break it up on land and haul it away in a couple dumpsters. If it breaks apart in the water they will have to fish it out one piece at a time.
Most entertaining:
HR will think his sea shack is seaworthy and try and move it, maybe even sail it to another dock. I think his hull sheeting is at its strength limit sitting at the dock. Adding dynamic pressure from moving into the equation will open the seams right up flooding the hulls. The fact his vessel flexes and may very well fold like a taco won’t be an issue; because his hulls won’t remain buoyant long enough for the flexing to become an issue. I do hope he tries to sail with his home made sail. He would at least have a picture to remember it by. I don’t think it will actually sail get blown downwind is more like it.
Most Likely:
It will slowly sink at its current dock. With bilge pumps now attached it seems likely the seams are leaking and the plywood is losing strength every minute water wicks its way through the hull sheets. There will be a last ditch effort to pull it out of the water. I think it is in the best interest of the marina to let him pull it out. My guess it will be cheaper to break it up on land and haul it away in a couple dumpsters. If it breaks apart in the water they will have to fish it out one piece at a time.
Most entertaining:
HR will think his sea shack is seaworthy and try and move it, maybe even sail it to another dock. I think his hull sheeting is at its strength limit sitting at the dock. Adding dynamic pressure from moving into the equation will open the seams right up flooding the hulls. The fact his vessel flexes and may very well fold like a taco won’t be an issue; because his hulls won’t remain buoyant long enough for the flexing to become an issue. I do hope he tries to sail with his home made sail. He would at least have a picture to remember it by. I don’t think it will actually sail get blown downwind is more like it.
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hard aground
Super Anarchist
I certainly hope it holds together long enough for there to be an attempt to sail. I need to see some video of that.
