70' Cruising Proa....Big Red Yacht

[ProaSailor]

Aroha started to break up on that trip.

If it wasn't for the skill, seamanship and resourcefullnes of the skipper it may have turned out very differently.

This is a very old discussion.  Interesting what a boat name search on Google turns up:

Can’t be Aroha, its too far away, and; history;- Aroha- went offshore, from Coff AUS,to North Cape NZ , after 313nm had to hide behind Lord Howe island with rudder defects. The next 760nm the bow area broke up mid tasman sea, unable to withstand the the wave pounding , according to the skipper. this in mild offshore [max.43knots tws] conditions , and had to be nursed in carefully by a skillful fisherman/owner to prevent it from foundering, a case of under engineering. , according to the owner has; the bad habit of rounding up violently every few waves.

Denney Inquisition Part 2(b): Jzerro, that miserable dog
by Steven Callahan, May 10, 2008
http://www.pacificproa.com/articles/denney_inquisition_part_2b_jzerro_that_miserable_dog.html

 

[Russell Brown]

Lord Howe is where Francis Chichester rebuilt his Gypsy Moth airplane on the first ever trans-Tasman flight. Anyone who hasn't read "The Lonely Sea and Sky" is missing an amazing read on early flying and navigation. Rick Willoughby is the worlds expert in pedal drive systems for boats and was a huge help to me in designing my system for the G-32. No idea what his sailing experience is, but I think he designed his proa. My crossing of the Tasman (on a proa) was wild too and mostly upwind, but took 6 days and was a great trip, especially seeing the long white cloud.

Is it okay for people to sell their ideas and designs on this forum? Where is the line drawn? 

 

[Russell Brown]

This is a very old discussion.  Interesting what a boat name search on Google turns up:





Denney Inquisition Part 2(b): Jzerro, that miserable dog
by Steven Callahan, May 10, 2008
http://www.pacificproa.com/articles/denney_inquisition_part_2b_jzerro_that_miserable_dog.html

Jesus, I never read "Jzerro, that miserable dog". It's quite a read. I know that whole thing drove Steve batshit crazy, but it's important for historical context.

 

[TwoBirds]

it is a good read, pity all the links on the right are dead, I'd like to read the rest of those articles.

 

[harryproa]

Ha, that’s funny.

Man (edit: Rick Willoughby) with no sailing experience critiques sail boat for free lunch.

This is despicable and absolutely untrue.  

Russ, you should be ashamed of yourself for not pointing out in strong terms that Rick would not take a bribe or tell lies.   

Joe ("Truth is important" ) O as well for liking it.

So should Rob Z and anyone else who knows Rick.

I will respond to the brown trolls that followed Octopus' post when I have nothing better to do.  
 

Rob Denney

 

[ProaSailor]

it is a good read, pity all the links on the right are dead, I'd like to read the rest of those articles.

I hadn't realized that Yahoo! shut down the old forum, creating those dead links.  I checked the "Wayback Machine" but apparently none of those pages are archived.  Then I looked at my own archives and found I had saved some of them.  So I modified the links on this page alone to show the Yahoo! pages I saved:

Reply to Denney's critiques of Brown et al
by Steven Callahan, Apr 2, 2008
http://pacificproa.com/articles/steven_callahan_reply_rob_denney.html

I'll modify them ASAP to remove the Yahoo! logo and other extraneous bits.

 

[ProaSailor]

Jesus, I never read "Jzerro, that miserable dog". It's quite a read. I know that whole thing drove Steve batshit crazy, but it's important for historical context.

That was the second part ('Part 2(b)') of what started here a month earlier:

Denney Inquisition Part 2: Jzerro, that miserable dog
by Steven Callahan, Apr 14, 2008
http://pacificproa.com/articles/20275.htm

 

[JanetC Gougeon32]

Well,

This took an interesting turn.  I wish I could find that Dirkling post about the Elementary in the proa Congress race.  I'm 99% certain I didn't imagine it. 

I don't think anyone called Rick a liar,  but presenting another guy's opinion in your own posts is basically hearsay and borderline anecdotal.  

I think Steve's own response to Rob's criticism clearly illustrates who's trolling who. 

 

[TwoBirds]

This is despicable and absolutely untrue.  

Russ, you should be ashamed of yourself for not pointing out in strong terms that Rick would not take a bribe or tell lies.   

Joe ("Truth is important" ) O as well for liking it.

So should Rob Z and anyone else who knows Rick.

I will respond to the brown trolls that followed Octopus' post when I have nothing better to do.  
 

Rob Denney

So no other sea passages then, no surprise there

 

[TwoBirds]

Well,

This took an interesting turn.  I wish I could find that Dirkling post about the Elementary in the proa Congress race.  I'm 99% certain I didn't imagine it. 

I don't think anyone called Rick a liar,  but presenting another guy's opinion in your own posts is basically hearsay and borderline anecdotal.  

I think Steve's own response to Rob's criticism clearly illustrates who's trolling who. 

And who the "Brown Troll" really is.

 

[MRS OCTOPUS]

This is despicable and absolutely untrue.  

Russ, you should be ashamed of yourself for not pointing out in strong terms that Rick would not take a bribe or tell lies.   

Joe ("Truth is important" ) O as well for liking it.

So should Rob Z and anyone else who knows Rick.

I will respond to the brown trolls that followed Octopus' post when I have nothing better to do.  
 

Rob Denney

Jeesus Rob,  settle down.

Adding your words to my snipped quotes is absolutely despicable.

Get it in perspective, I asked for an outline of Ricks sailing experience after you  dragged his name into the discussion. You provided NOTHING, stating you had no idea what difference that makes.

I posted a tounge in cheek quip to point out the idiocy of your reply in the context of your earlier posts.

You added the  rest.

SHAME ON YOU.

I have never met Rick but have followed his exploits with  human powered boats.

A very clever and talented man and no disrespect to him  was implied or intended.

I'm tapping out.

 

[TwoBirds]

Well,

This took an interesting turn.  I wish I could find that Dirkling post about the Elementary in the proa Congress race.  I'm 99% certain I didn't imagine it. 

I don't think anyone called Rick a liar,  but presenting another guy's opinion in your own posts is basically hearsay and borderline anecdotal.  

I think Steve's own response to Rob's criticism clearly illustrates who's trolling who. 

I can't find it either, in fact I can't find much of anything about any of robs boats that doesn't tie directly back to rob other than a few pieces on Blind Date that have nothing to dowith how she sails, must say I'm a bit puzzled, If people like these boats as much as rob claims why is he the only one talking about them?

Do these people that rob claims have endorsed his boats know that they have done so?

Jeesus Rob,  settle down.

Adding your words to my snipped quotes is absolutely despicable.

Get it in perspective, I asked for an outline of Ricks sailing experience after you  dragged his name into the discussion. You provided NOTHING, stating you had no idea what difference that makes.

I posted a tounge in cheek quip to point out the idiocy of your reply in the context of your earlier posts.

You added the  rest.

SHAME ON YOU.

I have never met Rick but have followed his exploits with  human powered boats.

A very clever and talented man and no disrespect to him  was implied or intended.

I'm tapping out.

Rob does seem to have a knack for chasing off people who ask hard questions without actually answering, can't say as I blame them, why put up with the aggravation over a silly argument when rob is so obviously willing to fight as dirty as he has too to win.

Except it's not a silly argument, rob is selling untested designs based on an experimental hullform on the premise that they are blue water capable and his whole sales technique could best be described as trolling for suckers.

 

[Wess]

Never has any one design of boat or variations thereof, generate more anger from its own proponents than a proa LOL. 

Proa threads; happily keeping the angry nutters contained and easily identified since... forever! 

Fun read and lots of laughs but I am scared and out of here. Y’all take crazy and angry to a whole new level! 

 

[TwoBirds]

Never has any one design of boat or variations thereof, generate more anger from its own proponents than a proa LOL. 

Proa threads; happily keeping the angry nutters contained and easily identified since... forever! 

Fun read and lots of laughs but I am scared and out of here. Y’all take crazy and angry to a whole new level! 

Actually, proa threads generally go quite smoothly until rob shows up, there were very few arguments  proafiles simply because rob was banned from the beginning

I've seen some pretty good knock down drag outs over tris vrs cats or mono vrs muti more than a few times.

 

[PIL66 - XL2]

Actually, proa threads generally go quite smoothly until rob shows up, there were very few arguments  proafiles simply because rob was banned from the beginning

I've seen some pretty good knock down drag outs over tris vrs cats or mono vrs muti more than a few times.

Actually, i respectfully disagree ..... Proa threads are generally colorful due to the strange and varied personalities that like this style of boat.

Multi people by mono standards were weirdos in the past because we were alternative but that's changed as we are now mainstream. Proa people have taken that crown and this thread is a good example.

Now i'm not a proa fan as I believe cats and tris tick all the boxes and i can find no examples of Proas that have any advantages over cats and tris for cruising and racing anywhere but that's me.....BTW I feel the same about unstayed rigs.

BUT... Good luck to you all for enjoying the ocean and sailing. 

I believe the hate here in both camps is making some look stupid and is certainly not doing your craft any favors. if i was contemplating a build, i'd run the other way reading this train wreck. 

It would be great to just follow and celebrate @r.finn's epic voyage in one of your craft. I certainly will follow his trip. It's also, IMHO, the closest example of a proa that is actually efficient and semi practical ....  Best of luck to him. He has and will do more for your cause than anyone before.
Sorry for the interruption. Carry on the hate...... 
 

 

[TwoBirds]

Wess is absolutely right, proa fans are angry, why the hell wouldn't we be? Rob has been relentlessly trolling us for over twenty years, he needs people to talk about harryproa in order to sell it, anybody with enough braincells to keep each other company and a basic understanding of hull speed realizes the concept is inherently flawed so no one is talking about it.

So Rob intentionally provokes personal attacks on the theory that any publicity is good publicity, if you go through this thread you'll see that rob blows up the thread and disappears until the thread peeters out or settles down, then shows up and blows it up again, maximum reward for minimum effort.

You don't have to take my word for it, rob has said it himself, he loves the personal attacks because they generate hits on his website



Before you judge all proa enthusiast take 20 minutes and read  Steven Callahan articles linked to in ProaSailers post below, get an idea of the shit and abuse we've been putting up with from rob for over 2 decades, and please stop blaming all proa enthusiasts for robs bad behavior.


  On 1/6/2021 at 6:43 AM, ProaSailor said:
I hadn't realized that Yahoo! shut down the old forum, creating those dead links.  I checked the "Wayback Machine" but apparently none of those pages are archived.  Then I looked at my own archives and found I had saved some of them.  So I modified the links on this page alone to show the Yahoo! pages I saved:

Reply to Denney's critiques of Brown et al
by Steven Callahan, Apr 2, 2008
http://pacificproa.com/articles/steven_callahan_reply_rob_denney.html

I'll modify them ASAP to remove the Yahoo! logo and other extraneous bits.


In fact a case could be made for robs actions over the years violating the anti stalking section of the forum rules.

20 years of robs bullshit and no end in sight...

 

[cynophobe]

You proa guys make the average anarchy posters look like saints. Here's an actual comment about the Big Red Boat,Gary has sold the boat. 

 

[Wess]

You proa guys make the average anarchy posters look like saints. Here's an actual comment about the Big Red Boat,Gary has sold the boat. 

View attachment 419625

An actual post about an actual boat LOL.  That and following Ryan is what is interesting to me re proas.  And so its clear I am not picking on one side or the other.  As far as I am concerned both "champions" are nuts.  I am all for joking and trolling but these folks seem to be serious and angry.  I would not buy a boat from or do business with Harry or Russell which is sad on a personal level as I used to respect and look up to one of them.  Both of them have posted enough seriously inane stuff to scare me away.  Life is too short to deal with folks that angry and trapped in a box.  Oh and wow... that IS red! 

 

[Russell Brown]

In what way do you have to deal with me, Wess and why would I care if you respect me? From my perspective you are a shit-stirrer and just want this fight to continue.

 

[Wess]

Never said you should care and doubt either of us do.  Nor do I care if you continue your fight w Rob or not.  Makes no difference to me.  Carry on.