70' Cruising Proa....Big Red Yacht

TwoBirds

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Has it ever occurred to you that not turning every thread on proas into a steaming shitfest with your used car salesman approach might be a good business strategy?

 

r.finn

Super Anarchist
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Has it ever occurred to you that not turning every thread on proas into a steaming shitfest with your used car salesman approach might be a good business strategy?
What I hate the most about Rob's approach is that he insists on quoting people out of context.  He is a thread burner like DL, and just like DL, the best approach is to ignore and especially not quote them. Neither know what they're talking about but are the first to plant their flag on a topic. For example, below is a video of the boat Rob marketed as an ocean capable race boat?  And he spends much of his time criticizing other Proa designers, who are actually sailing their boats, as in seaworthy!  Get your popcorn ready though, Rob has a pre-packaged victim response ready to be pasted here with some tweaks criticizing me and whoever else calls him on his bullshit.  Enjoy the show! 

https://player.vimeo.com/video/205876914?app_id=122963


 

TwoBirds

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What I hate about Robs approach is that it makes it difficult to stay excited about proas.

speaking of excited about proas, I love the way this guy thinks.



2b

 

Anotherclarkey

New member
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UK
On 9/14/2020 at 3:30 AM, TwoBirds said:

What I hate about Robs approach is that it makes it difficult to stay excited about proas.

speaking of excited about proas, I love the way this guy thinks.


I really like how Rael has moved forward with his ideas - very much looking forward to his 30'er. 

 

TwoBirds

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Gulf Islands
I really like how Rael has moved forward with his ideas - very much looking forward to his 30'er. 
I know eh? I'd love to get half as much done as he does, need more people like him working on proas, he doesn't post here anymore though.

I just built an AD scull and I'll be borrowing his adjustment system for sure.

Lol, he's got the boat building bug bad, it'll be interesting to see what he comes up with.

I haven't been able to find any sign one of Biekers proas been finished, but I don't think the design is more than a couple years old and it would take at least that long to home build one.

 
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ProaSailor

dreaming my life away...
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Pretty cool looking boat; were any ever completed?


I haven't been able to find any sign one of Biekers proas been finished, but I don't think the design is more than a couple years old and it would take at least that long to home build one.
The Bieker page I linked to is dated December 2012 - eight years ago.  I have no idea if one was ever completed.

An Update to our 32 foot Proa Design, December 30, 2012
http://biekerboats.blogspot.com/2012/12/an-update-to-our-32-foot-proa-design-in.html

 

Sidecar

…………………………
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Tasmania
Beat me to it......

There was one build blog, US I think, I can recall laminating up cross beams, but that blog seems to have disappeared.

Apparently, there is another build somewhere in Europe.

Similar thing with Madness design proas, at least 6 builds, and no news to be found? Not even the original after John Harris sold it?

 
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Curiosity got the best of me so I emailed the link on his page. While I still think a folding trimaran would work best for my needs I can't help but think how nice something like this would be for shorthanded distance racing....

 

Anotherclarkey

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UK
Curiosity got the best of me so I emailed the link on his page. While I still think a folding trimaran would work best for my needs I can't help but think how nice something like this would be for shorthanded distance racing....
It was originally designed to compete in the Jester Challenge wasn't it?

Getting back to the Big Red Yacht of the thread title, how much difference to we think getting rid of the sliding mast foot arrangement should make?  It seems to have got rid of a lot of complication (although they seem to need the jibs more for helm balance now).  I see why Rael Dobkins needs to move his rig since he has no boards or rudder in the main hull. 

 

KONeill

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John Harris was nice enough to loan me one of his kayak/tri boats for the first Watertribe race, years ago. I helped them put Mbuli together on the beach and watched it smoke off under bare "poles" (about 80 sq ft of wingmast, as I recall) at about ten knots across Tampa Bay.

I thought at the time that the only weakness I could see in the boat was the need to assemble it on the beach, which for a trailer boat is a huge pain in the ass, and the rudders. For a shallow water cruising boat, fixed daggerboard rudders like that just don't strike me as a good idea.

So they sailed across Tampa Bay, hit a shallow and broke a rudder, switched rudders so the working one was aft, sailed off, hit another shallow and broke the other rudder, beached it and went and had dinner. I was still enormously impressed with the boat, I just thought it needed some kind of side-hull mounted kick up rudder if it was going to sail around in shallow water like that.

 

TwoBirds

Member
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Gulf Islands
John Harris was nice enough to loan me one of his kayak/tri boats for the first Watertribe race, years ago. I helped them put Mbuli together on the beach and watched it smoke off under bare "poles" (about 80 sq ft of wingmast, as I recall) at about ten knots across Tampa Bay.

I thought at the time that the only weakness I could see in the boat was the need to assemble it on the beach, which for a trailer boat is a huge pain in the ass, and the rudders. For a shallow water cruising boat, fixed daggerboard rudders like that just don't strike me as a good idea.

So they sailed across Tampa Bay, hit a shallow and broke a rudder, switched rudders so the working one was aft, sailed off, hit another shallow and broke the other rudder, beached it and went and had dinner. I was still enormously impressed with the boat, I just thought it needed some kind of side-hull mounted kick up rudder if it was going to sail around in shallow water like that.
Was it just because of the wingmasts that they had to put it together on the beach?

 

Sidecar

…………………………
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Tasmania
Getting back to the Big Red Yacht of the thread title, how much difference to we think getting rid of the sliding mast foot arrangement should make?  It seems to have got rid of a lot of complication (although they seem to need the jibs more for helm balance now).  I see why Rael Dobkins needs to move his rig since he has no boards or rudder in the main hull. 
The sliding foot is supposed to keep a una rig balanced on a proa. The down sides are complex engineering, bow down trim and insufficient longitudinal spread of sail area. which is why, apart from extra sail area, they put on jibs.

Pacific proas have inherent weather helm. Which is why most successful proas are either sloop, schooner or versions of crab claw....

 
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[email protected]

Super Anarchist
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Also (from memory of a video years ago, too lazy to look for it again) although the mast step was mobile, the stays were about 3/4, so moving the foot forward moved the masthead back. It seemed a lot of effort for relatively little gain in moving CoE forward. 

 

Anotherclarkey

New member
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UK
Also (from memory of a video years ago, too lazy to look for it again) although the mast step was mobile, the stays were about 3/4, so moving the foot forward moved the masthead back. It seemed a lot of effort for relatively little gain in moving CoE forward. 
Yes, I remember thinking when it was first built that the idea was sound enough (even if it seemed to be asking a lot of the track) but the execution didn't provide enough shift in COE.

 

Future MOB

Member
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SoCal
Beat me to it......

There was one build blog, US I think, I can recall laminating up cross beams, but that blog seems to have disappeared.

Apparently, there is another build somewhere in Europe.

Similar thing with Madness design proas, at least 6 builds, and no news to be found? Not even the original after John Harris sold it?
I think this is the blog:

http://proa32.blogspot.com/

The build looked like it was really high quality. I would love to know what happened, if it is half built in an Oakland warehouse, any plans to finish?

 
A

Amati

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Here’s a Proa Sailing canoe - the idea was steering with the sail, switching the tack and clew when shunting ( which was ogival), swiveling seat (which was attached to a single ogival blade by line, and when I swiveled the seat, the foil rotated longitudinally the opposite way).  What I discovered was that proas need an ama.  But the sail was really powerful.  Scary actually....  the whole thing was kind of controllable, kind of...... :lol:   But putting ama/aka on it was A nightmare structurally and weight wise.  I still have the rig, sail and foils, so who knows?  The whole thing was a big leap of complexity- adding an ama that moved and stayed parallel was a bridge too far.  But !  I could sail it it with two hands on the sheets, and steering  with my legs- no running around required, or grabbing other lines, other than the  main halyard. Set up took forever, and pissed off fisherman, so I wound up standing in black goo which bubbled.. :blink:   not really an inland lake sailboat.  The sail conceptually came from Dipping lugs, except this one didn’t need to dip, and the c/e stayed centered.

image.jpeg

 
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