70' Cruising Proa....Big Red Yacht

[Amati]

If it doesn't go both directions it's not a proa.

You had to build a full size prototype to figure that out?  What did you expect would happen when the sail wasn't holding up your weight anymore?  Did you add the ama?

 Yes it sailed both directions- the seat stayed on one side 

canoes (with sliding seats)  that are 30” wide areNotoriously tippy Anyway.  I can sail a narrow sailing canoe- I thought I’d give this a try
 

tried the ama, but it was not feasible given the internal structure and the seat needed to swivel to move the foil and weight longitudinally to be part of the steering system, so linkage would have been involved- the whole thing was supposed to be a sit down pros windsurfer- very minimalistic- ha!

 

[ProaSailor]

Yes it goes both directions- the seat stays on one side 

I though one end was square but looking closer, I see that both ends are square!?  I know we've discussed this craft before but wow, it's weird.

How about strapping a big beach ball (or exercise ball) under that seat?  I can't imagine your thinking process that led to having no ama?

 

[Amati]

I though one end was square but looking closer, I see that both ends are square!?  I know we've discussed this craft before but wow, it's weird.

How about strapping a big beach ball (or exercise ball) under that seat?  I can't imagine your thinking process that led to having no ama?

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Scow!  The seat was Foam- it floated

 

[Amati]

 

[mathystuff]

Here’s a Proa Sailing canoe

Square rigged monoproa scow crazy thing.

I love it.

 

[ProaSailor]

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The critical difference is that without a mast in the way, he can move his weight to the middle of the hull - and that hull is considerably wider, so has more stability.

The seat was Foam- it floated

Bet that didn't help much, eh?

"Archimedes' principle states that the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces."  (c. 246 BC)

 

[Amati]

The critical difference is that without a mast in the way, he can move his weight to the middle of the hull - and that hull is considerably wider, so has more stability.

Bet that didn't help much, eh?

"Archimedes' principle states that the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces."

I really thought my problem would be death rolls.  :lol:  And the one time I did do a death role, I almost pulled off a water start, almost, before I rolled off the seat.  (I really needed footstraps) And even though the top yard weighed next to nothing (Like 14 oz), there is something to the notion of foot pounds....

and the mast was offset to leeward, so I could get my butt in the middle of the hull when I needed to balance things, but it was awkward to steer.  A sweep kind of worked for steering, but I really didn’t have anywhere to balance it, so I just dipped it in when I needed it.

 

[Amati]

Actually, we were going more for the planform, below, and the sail I had would get more bowed when actually sailing than in the pic above.  
 

I have to say I never thought a proa sailor would think any of my experiments wierd.  I feel like I’ve arrived!
 

Since ProaSailor was confused why I would include my canoe proa with the ex Gaia, I thought I should explain it was because they both physically moved the center of effort of the mainsail around when shunting. I think some of the proa community have given that up, for obvious reasons- it gets complex!  Did the owner of Gaia change the foil configuration when we fixed the mast foot?

 

[Laurent]

Actually, we were going more for the planform, below, and the sail I had would get more bowed when actually sailing than in the pic above.  
 

I have to say I never thought a proa sailor would think any of my experiments wierd.  I feel like I’ve arrived!
 

Since ProaSailor was confused why I would include my canoe proa with the ex Gaia, I thought I should explain it was because they both physically moved the center of effort of the mainsail around when shunting. I think some of the proa community have given that up, for obvious reasons- it gets complex!  Did the owner of Gaia change the foil configuration when we fixed the mast foot?

View attachment 392854

It gets complex???

No shit...

 

[patzefran]

View attachment 392806

Convert to a sliding seat and you got a low performance International canoe !

 

[KONeill]

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How does that steering work? It looks like the aft mast is in the way of the tiller. Is it a push/pull stick on a yoke?

 

[Amati]

How does that steering work? It looks like the aft mast is in the way of the tiller. Is it a push/pull stick on a yoke?

Yup- the tiller rotates on that vertical tube

 

[Amati]

Convert to a sliding seat and you got a low performance International canoe !

That was the plan- it was was a cheap and cheerful proof of concept kind of thing...

 

[harryproa]

Sorry for the delayed reply, I have been busy building a tender (glass and flax, 210 kgs/460 lbs).
 
Sidecar,
The jib on the windward shroud makes handling it much easier than having it on the bows.  It would be good to see some sailing data with and without it, when you get an opportunity.
 
Kevin,
It is not just shallow water proas that should have kick up rudders and boards.  Having them on any proa (or multihull, for that matter) is lighter, cheaper and one less thing to worry about.  It also saves a heap of work and drama when the inevitable happens with whales, logs, rocks etc.  The faster the boat, the less sense fixed appendages make.
 

Another kite sailing (and foiling) proa video. 

https://player.vimeo.com/video/127926604?app_id=122963

 

[TwoBirds]

And he decides to continue stepping all over his own dick by killing yet another proa thread, surprise surprise.

 

[Happy]

And he decides to continue stepping all over his own dick by killing yet another proa thread, surprise surprise.

I don't really understand the animosity. Rob never misses an opportunity to promote his ideas, and he doesn't mind an argument. So what? Original thinkers usually rub people the wrong way. I prefer to focus on the boats.

I've been following the Harryproa evolution from the beginning, back when the Aussie multihull magazine was printed in black and white on cheap grey newsprint, and the internet was only for scientists.  I like the concept for a light, simple cruising boat. Not as pretty as a Pacific proa, probably not as fast, but more comfort and more ease of operation.

Unstayed weathercocking rigs make excellent sense for less skilled and less racy owners. My main worries are infusing full-length parts. Rob reckons it's as easy as sitting down to piss, but he's done it a thousand times.

The other thing that Harryproa sailing videos show is a wet ride. If I was considering building one, I would definitely want spray rails and slightly higher bows.

 

[TwoBirds]

the problem is that people who've forgotten more than rob will ever know about proas quit posting as soon as he starts  because they're sick and tired of his abuse.

 

[bigmarv]

the problem is that people who've forgotten more than rob will ever know about proas quit posting as soon as he starts  because they're sick and tired of his abuse.

People posting on this toxic misogynistic website call what he writes "abuse"?  Lol.

Having read a bit of the banter, my impression is that he stays on point and non-abusive, which cannot be said for a bunch of those who respond to him or describe him.  His boats may or may not work well (no idea, me), but a bunch of what he says is obviously right and never answered except with rudeness or silence.  Case in point is the risk of backing a stayed rig when it's basically unsupported on one side.  the wind never backs suddenly and strongly when cruising a PC from your desk maybe, and probably won't with experts constantly vigilant.  Long distances, short crew, normal people, it happens.

His thoughts about infusion are useful and his experiments interesting. To a bystander the overreaction to his posts just seems weird and a bit babyish.

 

[Amati]

?

 

[Amati]

Oops!  There.....

cheers!