89er

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,097
1,417
Sydney mostly
Chewing the fat in the boat with Winglets on, not quite good enough I know Stanno.

image.png

Plugs are loaded onto the trailer in the back ground.

A better shot of the catastrope.    As I type this they are north of Newcastle, and should be in Brisbane by late afternoon/

image.png

The painter also arrived and confirmed late June start, mid July finish, its all happening, as long as the sun stays out we will be just fine.

                             jB

 

WCB

Super Anarchist
4,262
781
Park City, UT
Chewing the fat in the boat with Winglets on, not quite good enough I know Stanno.

View attachment 510406

Plugs are loaded onto the trailer in the back ground.

A better shot of the catastrope.    As I type this they are north of Newcastle, and should be in Brisbane by late afternoon/

View attachment 510407

The painter also arrived and confirmed late June start, mid July finish, its all happening, as long as the sun stays out we will be just fine.

                             jB
That is a hell of a trailer setup.  

 

Tball

New member
2
1
Qld
Chewing the fat in the boat with Winglets on, not quite good enough I know Stanno.

View attachment 510406

Plugs are loaded onto the trailer in the back ground.

A better shot of the catastrope.    As I type this they are north of Newcastle, and should be in Brisbane by late afternoon/

View attachment 510407

The painter also arrived and confirmed late June start, mid July finish, its all happening, as long as the sun stays out we will be just fine.

                             jB
Surprised they didn't end up in the news - Normally a trip to sydney ends up with police or the papers :)   

 

Steve Clark

Super Anarchist
Can't remember when, probably post 2012 because that the year Dad died, and Bruce Kirby was mortified that he had not meet dad, so I was the next best thing (apparently, or he was just sucking up to me).   Bill Crane set up a great lunch, 3 hrs in some little hamlet in RI, then I ened up with Steve (Clark), stayed the night at the ranch (Steve's house) and we drove with at least 2 IC's in tow from Newport RI up into Canada and on to Ottowa to race in a weekend event, a very young Dave was with us, talking shit (Steve and I were, Dave was probably thinking "2 stupid old bastards").    They ofcourse flogged me, but that was always going to happen.   The last time I sailed a IC was one of Uffa Fox's original boats, something like 3,000 brass screws all lovinging removed and the pannels all came off, where repaired and replaced, this was somewhere near Manchester in the UK on a river, the guy (heavily into Rolex thermo plastic) could not bring himself to sail it, and insisted that I did, which I did, not sure it was ever sailed again, but the late great Ian Bruce was with me and very very envious.

In 1959 my parents had a choice, emigrate from NZ to Sydney or LA, Dad like LA, Mum liked Sydney, Mum won.    But I often think that if I had ended up in LA and the Bethwaites had ended up in "Merica" what would have been the downstream consequences.    IC's would have been in the somewhere.

                           jB
Specifically:

You sailed Red Shift, which was Willy's Nethercot. ( Now called ICOD_)  The  trip involved Oliver and David.  If I recall the boats, Oliver would have been sailing one of the Josie sisters ( called Uncle Walter just to be clear) and David would have been sailing Alice, my first IC which was built in 1948 and rebuilt art least 5 times by me.  The final time without the old IC mid length rise of floor and with a lower weight, although not down to the new class minimum.  I was probably sailing Wonk, which was the first boat I built to the new development rule.   Given all this, it would have humiliated us not to humiliate you.

I usually regulate the lift off the board by what the helm feels like.  If the weather helm goes away, you are overproducing side force, and unloading the leeward side of the bow (which usually does 15-20% of the work)i n so doing the CLR moves aft, so you either reduce board area or rake the rig or both.  On the C Class,with asymmetrical dagger boards, you could actually get pretty significant lee helm if you went too fast with too much board down. Kind of shocking when you first experience it.  I played with the feathering boards as Julian describes them, but once the minimum weight went down. I have been trying to get the last half Kg out of the dagger boards in order to get closer to minimum weight.  So just focusing on light enough and strong enough

My current IC board design is attached,  It is not as small as it could be because I have a prejudice for boards that are somewhat forgiving during starts and other stack ups when tactics preclude sailing optimally  The Selig/ Donovan section is a low Reynolds Number section that was very good during the IACC V5 tests before scaling.  Those models operated at IC Reynolds numbers in the tank. Bill Beaver put some ICs in the big towing tank at the Naval Academy several years ago and discovered that ICs hate even the smallest amount of yaw ( AKA leeway) the drag penalty was left of the decimal point  This inspired us to build a bunch of gybing boards which failed to deliver so we must have been doing it wrong somehow.

I haven't completely given up trying to get fast in the IC again, but the steady tic tic tic of Time the Avenger makes it less and less likely to happen.

SHC

View attachment sd8020-2 Dagger Board.pdf

 
Last edited by a moderator:

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,097
1,417
Sydney mostly
Specifically:

You sailed Red Shift, which was Willy's Nethercot. ( Now called ICOD_)  The  trip involved Oliver and David.  If I recall the boats, Oliver would have been sailing one of the Josie sisters ( called Uncle Walter just to be clear) and David would have been sailing Alice, my first IC which was built in 1948 and rebuilt art least 5 times by me.  The final time without the old IC mid length rise of floor and with a lower weight, although not down to the new class minimum.  I was probably sailing Wonk, which was the first boat I built to the new development rule.   Given all this, it would have humiliated us not to humiliate you.

I usually regulate the lift off the board by what the helm feels like.  If the weather helm goes away, you are overproducing side force, and unloading the leeward side of the bow (which usually does 15-20% of the work)i n so doing the CLR moves aft, so you either reduce board area or rake the rig or both.  On the C Class,with asymmetrical dagger boards, you could actually get pretty significant lee helm if you went too fast with too much board down. Kind of shocking when you first experience it.  I played with the feathering boards as Julian describes them, but once the minimum weight went down. I have been trying to get the last half Kg out of the dagger boards in order to get closer to minimum weight.  So just focusing on light enough and strong enough

My current IC board design is attached,  It is not as small as it could be because I have a prejudice for boards that are somewhat forgiving during starts and other stack ups when tactics preclude sailing optimally  The Selig/ Donovan section is a low Reynolds Number section that was very good during the IACC V5 tests before scaling.  Those models operated at IC Reynolds numbers in the tank. Bill Beaver put some ICs in the big towing tank at the Naval Academy several years ago and discovered that ICs hate even the smallest amount of yaw ( AKA leeway) the drag penalty was left of the decimal point  This inspired us to build a bunch of gybing boards which failed to deliver so we must have been doing it wrong somehow.

I haven't completely given up trying to get fast in the IC again, but the steady tic tic tic of Time the Avenger makes it less and less likely to happen.

SHC

View attachment 511842
Steve, just very happy to go sailing with mates and talk shit!

Thankyou for putting up with me.

 

Sidecar

…………………………
3,017
1,395
Tasmania
My current IC board design is attached,  It is not as small as it could be because I have a prejudice for boards that are somewhat forgiving during starts and other stack ups when tactics preclude sailing optimally  The Selig/ Donovan section is a low Reynolds Number section that was very good during the IACC V5 tests before scaling. 
Similar to this one?

http://airfoiltools.com/airfoil/details?airfoil=sd8020-il

 
Last edited by a moderator:

G30ff0

New member
11
4
Sydney
Specifically:

You sailed Red Shift, which was Willy's Nethercot. ( Now called ICOD_)  The  trip involved Oliver and David.  If I recall the boats, Oliver would have been sailing one of the Josie sisters ( called Uncle Walter just to be clear) and David would have been sailing Alice, my first IC which was built in 1948 and rebuilt art least 5 times by me.  The final time without the old IC mid length rise of floor and with a lower weight, although not down to the new class minimum.  I was probably sailing Wonk, which was the first boat I built to the new development rule.   Given all this, it would have humiliated us not to humiliate you.

I usually regulate the lift off the board by what the helm feels like.  If the weather helm goes away, you are overproducing side force, and unloading the leeward side of the bow (which usually does 15-20% of the work)i n so doing the CLR moves aft, so you either reduce board area or rake the rig or both.  On the C Class,with asymmetrical dagger boards, you could actually get pretty significant lee helm if you went too fast with too much board down. Kind of shocking when you first experience it.  I played with the feathering boards as Julian describes them, but once the minimum weight went down. I have been trying to get the last half Kg out of the dagger boards in order to get closer to minimum weight.  So just focusing on light enough and strong enough

My current IC board design is attached,  It is not as small as it could be because I have a prejudice for boards that are somewhat forgiving during starts and other stack ups when tactics preclude sailing optimally  The Selig/ Donovan section is a low Reynolds Number section that was very good during the IACC V5 tests before scaling.  Those models operated at IC Reynolds numbers in the tank. Bill Beaver put some ICs in the big towing tank at the Naval Academy several years ago and discovered that ICs hate even the smallest amount of yaw ( AKA leeway) the drag penalty was left of the decimal point  This inspired us to build a bunch of gybing boards which failed to deliver so we must have been doing it wrong somehow.

I haven't completely given up trying to get fast in the IC again, but the steady tic tic tic of Time the Avenger makes it less and less likely to happen.

SHC

View attachment 511842
Thanks for all this Steve, this is the Dagger board profile I actually use (out of the mould’s from Scotts Machete). I was guessing at boats you guys had around at the time!

 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,097
1,417
Sydney mostly
There are a few of you who are asking what is happening.

The really biggy is that a family wedding has migrated over the dates for Magnetic Island so that has sort of put an end to my plans for Magnetic, and the boys don't feel comfortable taking a near brand new boat that far and sailing it without me, so that has put an end to that plan.

The other thing is I am swamped with 49er stuff, you probably have heard some of the dramas that besets all introductions of new equipment into the Olympic arena and it’s heightened even further by the shortness between now and Paris, so that has quite understandably dragged my attention elsewhere.

Plus I am being pursued very hard to take on one additional project beyond my existing commitment that they really should shoot me because I have been tardy.

Then I have to go to Milan, Copenhagen, Aarhus, then some commitments in nth Europe before The Hague and home out of Amsterdam late June and into early July.

This is mostly 49er/FX related, there is a open meeting and the AGM in Aarhus, but I will have 3 days off with friends in Copenhagen before that watching 29er Euros, so it’s 90-95% work related and with less that 3 weeks before I board the kerosene canary and plenty of bits to get done, the 89er has had to take a back seat.    And it’s bloody cold here at the moment also.

That being said, made up some foot rails yesterday, I now know where they are going, the sails are about to be shipped to Australia and the mast lands in Brisbane mid next week.   I should pick it up about the 14th.

The boat is on schedule to go to the painter later this month for the 3 weeks while I’m OS. That means just about all the construction stuff is done, there should be very little epoxying happening after it comes back and it will go straight to its spot in Rushcutters Bay on it’s return which should happen around the 20th of July.

Probably test sailing mid-August, ready for the 1st Super 30 races in September.

 

allweather

Member
409
82
baltic
you probably have heard some of the dramas that besets all introductions of new equipment into the Olympic arena
Got to admit I've been (blissfully?) ignorant aside of the things you've mentioned here in passing...

Anyway, thanks for the heads up regarding your very busy schedule and rough plans for the 89er. Had been wondering what your progress was while enacting radio silence. Looking forward to mid august then!

 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,097
1,417
Sydney mostly
This is a S8 or a Sports8, and yes, they took Vivace, faired it, and pulled some moulds of and made a number of S8's which are my hull shape. Great boats, really tough as the consultant NA approx doubled the laminates.

Think Conquesterdor and French KISS would be sister ships.

jB
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,097
1,417
Sydney mostly
So an update on whats happening.

Got up at 3am last Sat morning, drove to Brisbane via Bago (Wauchope) and got to Southport Yacht Club around 12ish, unloaded the foil moulds to Dave Lambourne who is going to make a set of foils for his boat while I "do Europe" and then made my way back down Surfers to Nobbies for pre wedding drinks.
Wedding was Monday, lots of fun, big night, I did not get "pissed" as 5am I drove back to SYD (without the mast).

Plan is to drive back up to Brisbane on Saturday morning (4 days time) with the boat in tow, and then over the next 10 days it will get painted.
Bring the mast back down on Sunday on my return, Monday week, I'm off to Italy, and Denmark with a brief stop in The Hague,
When I get back from Europe, (14th July) another drive to Brissy and pick it up, bring her back down here and start the fit out process and I will also bring the foil moulds back along with me and start the foil making process.

Sails are here in my house, all bricked up, all 36kgs of them (Main, 2 Jibs and a Assy).

See how we go. I am continually being asked about foils and now David is asking very pointed queastions so I am doing him a PP, which I will then explain to him in person and share with you.

So 3 frantic days, getting the Pt winglet to match the side and then a road trip. I'm getting quite excited.
 

allweather

Member
409
82
baltic
Painting can proceed in that condition or will Phibbsie need to do some prep work yet?
You already did a lot of sanding, but not really something to judge from the picture.
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,097
1,417
Sydney mostly
Coming back down the east coast with the mast on the roof. C-Tech (NZ), for what I could pull out in the car and look at on the way down, done a briliant job,
1655625295687.png

Spreader arm, and it very sexy.
1655625357868.png

And a pretty good weight, this is over length, so 600-650gm spreaders wont be un-heard of.
1655625450266.png

The catastrophy on top of the car during one of many, very heavy downpours on the way down the coast (in Ballina right as we were leaving).
1655625556009.png

But 2 mins before it was perfcet (Ballina) where we stopped for breakfast, some may recognise it as Rambler's hang-out, which it was, spur of the moment decision by GT, he had no been back to Ballina for 15 years, so a improptue detour and great coffee and some breaky.

Back home now, tomorrow GT is on his way over here (after yet another Picalo) to have a good look at the mast, and plot the next moves.

Re painting the boat, Phibbies was pretty happy with what he saw, he recons within 10 day it will be slurried, long-boarded, primed and painted. 95% of the whole boat is within +/-0.5mm of acurate, 3% is within +/-2mm and sure a few spots at +/-3mm. Darren Phibbs is a bit of a genius at this, he did trilogy for us many years ago, so I am very hopeful that he will make me look famous.

Hard task, but with his skill set, very possible. I probably won't see the boat again until late July, but plenty to do rigging the mast, travelling to Europe and making up to the wife.

Send you som photos of the mast tomorrow, jB
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,097
1,417
Sydney mostly
Promissed photos of the mast, so here goes.
Mast lengths.jpg

So the mast is 10.920m LOA, 2 peice, its 110mm (exc track) f-n-Aft, 78mm sideways.
Lower mast is 5m effectively (exc sleeve) top mast is 6m approx, taper starts 2.5m down.
Mast lengths.jpg


Sleeve is very nice, may not bother to glue it, so we can trail it inside the boat.
Sleeve and mast head.jpg


All up weight is 15.75kgs as you see it. which includes the butt doubler.

We plugged the mast together and no wobble, hence, I may try and not glue it, huge benifits, no bugs, less damage etc etc if we can fold it up and put it inside the hull while towing.

Designing some moulds to make spreader ends, just finalising how we will attach the spreaders, very likely have them detachable (again for trailing), some nice mast head ideas.

One that I think is pretty clever, been playing aroud with Constrictors, and may use it as a halyard lock for the main. It allows a pretty small diamater halyard (M4) doubled up for the last 500mm so your out about M6 and that will grab really well in a M6 Constrictor. Pull a trip line and it comes down without much fuss. I have done a lot of bench testing, and it seems to work, but time will tell.
Thinking being is doubled up M4 SK99 has a BS of 4 tone, not likely to see that on a headboard and far prefer not to have it coming down the inside of a mast, then the weight of some M6 - M8 Technora even with 2:1, over 11m of rope to creep/streach/elongate.

Will keep you posted,

jB
 

Schnick

Super Anarchist
2,625
68
Vancouver, BC
We put a constrictor inside the masthead of our last rig on the 6-meter. Within a year we were putting someone up the rig every time we dropped the main. Not ideal! I think you need to anticipate some trial and error with halyard sized and bungy components.

Agree it SHOULD work.
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,097
1,417
Sydney mostly
Re the cost, the 2 bare tubes are about $NZD10k ex the factory in Auckland (NZ), I have paid another approx. $AUD1k in GST on arrival in Brisbane, but I was super lucky in that I piggy backed on a container load of VX1's, so Mackay's (who are my 2nd biggest licensee) strapped the mast up into the corner of the container so logistic costs, packing, duties etc etc were minimal. The actual design of the mast (ei's and all that) I was also very lucky in that Andrew (sail designer) and Tim (mast desiger) worked hand in glove, so I only had to overview.

Re the Constrictor, I have been doing a lot of bench tests, and they are all positive. Your right WRT diameters, very important, and I will have the added luxury that this masts will be coming out of the boat 7-8 times a year (each time we trail to a new venue) so maintenance should be far less painfull. But thankyou for your input, greatly appreciated!
 
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