89er

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,247
1,803
Sydney mostly
Longy, there are locking brummels and sliding brummels, even though I know how to do even a blind locking brummel, I tend to use sliding ones because a) they tend not to slide, and b) they do load up the actual splice rather than the brummel, and that has to be a good thing. Anyway, regardless of that, I will continue to load up my splices and test them to 3 x operating load, and if I get breakages, I will refine my process and that may mean going to locking stitches, but until then, I'm happy with what I am doing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Saw this photo few days back, it's now my screen saver, it's displace the young girl in Copenhagen on a screaming reach in a 29er, both great shots. Love what they do with what I did.
If anyone thought there was no evolution in basic sailing then think again, even no foils, these kids are having fun and that's what its all about.
Makes the 3Di sails and all that work worthwhile.

1665296151537.png


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Last few days have not been idle, boat is progressing further but the big movement has been making the fin.

Started probably 10 days ago, we laid up the laminate,
1665296651582.png

We decided to do it old school, so laid up the 2 1/2ve, wet, so each layer went down and was fully wet-ed out.
Initial layer was a sacrificial 100gm Glass, over the entire surface, then
2 x 330gm Basalt Twill 0/90° over the whole surface
1 x 330gm Basalt Twill 45/45° probably coming 1/2 way down the LE, tapering back probably 300mm down at the TE.
Then 9 x 300gm Basalt Unie 0 -> 10° So these unies are staggered in length.
You can see one of the off-axis ones, and they reduce in thickness and length as the layers increase.
But each layer was individually wet-ed out and "stretched" so to speak into the laminate.
We added extra load sheeding "triangles" you can easily see the one on the TE, also right at the top on the LE.
Then peel ply, Perforated plastic, and 2 x 600gm layer of CSM (as bleed cloth), then 80% vacuum.
1.4kgs of laminate (per side) and approx 1.25kgs of epoxy (per side)
First side took about 2 hrs, 2nd took 50 mins.

The mould at the top is over length in-case I need a longer board.

1665297320657.png


TE reinforcement and a internal layer of Twill just to hold the hold thing together.
This shot was taken yesterday prior to bonding all the peel ply has been removed and it has been sanding .

About 6 days ago we blew a core, 2nd attempt was good, 3kgs of Pu H160 expanding foam.

Prior to blowing the core, day laid in a stuck down with masking tape all the LE wraps, The spar laminate and the extra bits
Covered it all with "Oven Bake Grease paper" and then blew the core, you have about 90sec from mixing to a full blow.
We used ratchet straps to hold the mould together, see the last photo.

1665297617307.png


This is the core just prior to bonding the 2 1/2ves, down the bottom is the Bulb anchor.
Similar lift bar at the top, again strapped in with Unies.
That will get 2 wraps of Unie to hold it in place, those are M10 MT bolts into 20mm SS bar.

1665298486992.png


TE relief, you can see the imprint from the other side in the Blown core.

1665298563010.png


Darcy and Alex (behind) laying up the spar, LE joining wrap is also down, Using bog as foam filler then resin to wet out the Glass bi-axial.
Looking towards the tip, one layer the whole way, you can see the 2nd layer starting, and there is a 3rd +/-350mm of the keel line.
All at 45/45°,


1665298428585.png


So this is the basic layup, black is the outer layers of Twill.
Redish/brown is the unies, it's approx 4mm thick at the keel.
Then the inner black zig-zag is the spar lay-up that you see happening above.
Bit over 1.25m² in the spar laminate, each blade at the keel is 1.2mm thick, it's significant.

1665298974631.png


Moulds in the "curing position" LE down, the clamps are only there to hold the moulds together while maneuvering into "curing position".
We then start at the tip, and wind up the tension, on the ratchet straps, move upwards toward the top so the resin/slurry (quite thin) is moved upward both toward the TE and toward the top.
We did heat it to 65-70c and held that for 6 hrs.

When clamping for the Pu Blown, mould was horzontal and we drop the tip 10°, so the blow started at the tip and blew upwards.

1665299187631.png


GT holding the finished fin, 11kgs and even though it was less than 18hrs old, we did a 200kg tip bounce.
It moved maybe 20mm, bloody stiff. I probably have over-killed once again.

We have now detailed the board, done some filling, there will be extra cap and tip laminates.
Then the plan is to do the full ISO 220% loading before I get on the plane. (Which is 1 week tomorrow)

Rudder moulds come back this week, may get the laminate in before I go.
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,247
1,803
Sydney mostly
That photo, 4-5 levels of artistry in that.
Sure the initial design.
The refinement of that design and initial sailors allowing that, now it's far harder, everyone has their quirks that they don't want to loose.
The sail design, the initial sail development , Anders Lewander, then Maka now the designers at Norths, Ben, Mark and Paul to name a few.
The sailors learning to sail it and being comfortable if they push it that hard a) it won't break and b) they won't get hurt.
And then of-course the photographer, the positioning of the sun, the framing of the photo, I assume it was a drone, but all 5 elements had to come together.

As I commented I grabbed this of the fB page. There were about 10 shots.

I have seen this 4-5 times, (49ers jumping off waves)
Initially in Taiwan, when Mark Turnbul jumped a frigates wake.
There was the Austrian guys which is now part of a rope manufactures ad.

But this one is particularly surreal. I did photography at design school, so I have a inclining of how hard it is!

Go look at

Shuttersail.com - Robert Hajduk Sailing & SeaScape Photography​

If you want to see some other of his work,

& Robert, love your work/talent. Hope we meet one day.

jB
 

barney

Member
398
15
View attachment 544525
Bright orange is the Jib downhaul, on the deck, also 8:1, rational is if you want to move the jib up 20mm you ease the downhaul 160mm and pull the jib halyard (blue) 160mm, do it in a tack or ease the fine tune jib sheet (blue and white, 4:1) 200mm.
Curious about moving the jib up from the deck. Wouldn't it loose the end plate effect? Is that a compromise that you have to make to have a self-tacking jib instead of a standard jib car?
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,247
1,803
Sydney mostly
Curious about moving the jib up from the deck. Wouldn't it loose the end plate effect? Is that a compromise that you have to make to have a self-tacking jib instead of a standard jib car?
Hi Barney, 3-4 things here.

1) There is a boundary layer on the waters surface and even looking at images of extreme wind it never gets lower than about 3/4m (750-800mm) so even if I pop the jib 100mm above the deck, the bottom of my jib will still be operating in this slower moving air than the area 200-300mm above and that will in-itself end plate the jib-foot.

2) Having a jib foot scrunched up on the for-deck is far worse than having it set correctly 100mm above the fore-deck. Again, you need only look at where the 49er fly their jibs (they can and do move them up and down the wire to alter jib sheet angle, as well as the clew board) to see that they all opt for a well proportioned setting were the jib is flying cleanly

3) I do have a lot of options WRT my clew board so I can position my jib so it will be sitting most of the time, 20-25mm above the fore-deck and the leakage on 20-25mm is minimal &

The 4)-th thing is as the wind speed increases, far better to pull the tack of the jib down (to get rid of those crinkles) than wind the halyard up. And I say that for 3 reasons.

i) Far easier to pull down in the direction of the force, the crew can do it from the gunwale, not going into the cockpit and cranking it up.

ii) side issue from that is you don't have to ease the jib sheet to do it, and it can be eased as easily as pulled on &

iii) pulling the jib down has the added benefit of flattening the jib-sheeting angle, if you are increasing luff tension, then flatting the jib sheeting angle is very likely a benefit also.
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,247
1,803
Sydney mostly
Hi, I'm back! Europe was wet, driving at absurd speeds (110-120km) because the Italians were doing 20km more in driving rain, aquaplanning often, makes you glad to be back in the sanity of Sydney.
Also wet in Switzerland, but Germany was piture card perfect and Abu Dhabi was hot, plus the conf was on the F1 circuit so need a breath of fresh air, was punctuated but Ferraris driven by wantabies winding the motors out while double suffeling!

Bussiness wise, Germany was great, probably a newish, rather interesting commision is in the offering, it has a lot of potential, the mechanic's could be complex as in were and how, but give me 6 months.
Switzerland was 99% family stuff, Julia, the Nice(in-law) and the Grand Nices whom I had never meet due to Covid. Missed the Nepew by a day in Abu Dhabi, so a reason to return in Febuary.
Italy was 160 29ers, so pressing the flesh, 3 49er coaches came up and press the flesh also, also hang out with Paolo in Garda, then again in AD.
Abu Dhabi was WS confrence, and all is well on the western front, some really interesting iniciatives WRT re-cycling and building more green boats, more so increasing there working life, plus Basalt and PET and infusion.
Some even greater iniciatives here in Australia with re-cycling, 3D printing concret facards using re-cycled FRP as a medium. Many $m's contracts already happening in places like Singapore, and here in Sydney. Having a working lunch Friday about the possibilities.

89er wise, went and looked at the boat, don't think anyone has tried to peek at it, it's as it was.

Right now, doing mast and rudder.

Spreaders were all carboned up yesterday, bonding to the Ti bases before I left, just about to detail them. Each spreader arm has ended up at 374 & 345 gms so total a tad over 1.2 kgs for all 4 spreader arms.

This morning we sucked down the rudder laminates.
1667278126103.png

Under vacuum in the Australian oven/sun

1667278191479.png

Rough position of the pivot, I am using a 13mm OD x 12.2mm ID brass tube.
If you look at the lower end, I have a M12 Ti rudder pin up the inside, perfcet clearance.

1667278504512.png

Final happy snap, you can see the reinforcment build up.
There would be 4 x 370gm Basalt twill + 10 x 300gm Basalt unie at the crease point.
Almost 4.5mm of reinforcment (x approx 120mm wide) so about 540mm² per side.

Tomorrow if the weather stays good, we will blow a core. Friday or Saturday make/bond the rudder inc the spar and capturing the pivot.
All happens in one process, I will be very happy if it all happen that smothly!

jB
 

antiussentiment

New member
16
14
Perth
MDF is a boat building material??
I built this little 2.4m tender for our keel boat as a YouTube project / experiment.

1667440413186.png


It's 3mm MDF, stitch n glue sheathed in 250gsm glass and West System. Weighs in at just over 30kg. Cost just under AU$600.
It sails, rows, motors and is actually enormous fun in little rivers and lakes. Places where a regular sailing dinghy wont fit.

Short sailing video on a shitty day here..

The YouTube series starts here..


So basically, given the right criteria, yes..
~ laughs ~
 

Frogman56

Anarchist
582
119
Sydney
Hi Barney & all ...

WRT the jib endplate cited above, suggest as follows:

1. The self tacker is no obstacle to good deck seal, more or less ...
2. It is quite clear that a degree of of seal (foot to deck) is quite important. When tested (say in a 470) good seal vs. 100 mm gap was more tha 1% faster upwind.
3. FFS, why would the TP52s velcro the GS and SS to the deck downwindin less than 12 TWS. if not (at least) mildly material??

Stop there !

Frog
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,247
1,803
Sydney mostly
Just to embelish, front 10-15% of any aero or hydro - foil dose 75% of the work, next 10-15% dose moe than 1/2 of whats left of the work, back 70-75% is important because it sets-up and makes the front 25% do that work, but in terms of end plating, get the front 20-35% down and sealed and what happens behind that is important, but no where to the same degree.

It's why the cuff luff on a 49er/29er works so well especially if the main is sprung 100-150mm, there is almost no "vortex" around the bottom of the boom. We stumbeled over this in the last few years of my fathers life, purely by accident, both he and I devised very simple tests to verify what we stumbled across, and we became very adept and atuned to "springing the sheet.

Even yesterday on the Farr 40, 17-27knts, #3 jib, no reef (we don't have reefs in the main), bring the traveller up and twist the main off, 6.2-6.3 knots, drop the traveller down 300mm, wind the mainsheet on (we now have electric wniches, very civiised) boat freed up hi 6's almost 7's in speed.

Also while sailing yesterday, a Gannet, it was a wild winter westerly (in late spring in Sydney, weather here is F--ked up also) decided to cross the pond, up-wind. It was glued to the deck, flying 300-400mm above the water surface. They really know what they are doing, we only need to look and get a idea of whats happening.

A TP52 or a maxi with a 1.5 -2m topside fwd, yep the bottom of the jib in the full force of the wind. My boat with 500mm topsides fwd, mostly in surface effect.

jB
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,247
1,803
Sydney mostly
Plenty happening here WRT the 89er.

1667622771330.png

Used to refer to this as the "Whale test", I'm 95kgs, Harry is probably 85kgs, only creaks and groans were from the fence.
Not the full ISO test, but good enough for now.

1667622932699.png

We put the laminate in a few days back, so here we have put in 300gm and 600gm CSM (because it's cheap and simple) where we will want glass wraps and unies "gudgeons", to hold in the brass tube.

1667622962750.png

Detail of the Gudgeon straps, so 3 layers of 600gm CSM, staggered. When doing the actual laminate/Layup, we will used 300gm Baslat Unie with a layer of 370gm Basalt twill to bind it all together, obviously around the brass tube. Leading edge wrap will be 2 layers of 375gm Bi-axial Glass 45°/45°, I use glass because it not brital, I could possible use Basalt, but glass works so I will use that.
You can see the 3 layers of 600gm CSM were the spar will be, it tapers back as you get away from the lower gudgeon, but we will use again the 375gm Bi-axial inleaved with 370gm Basalt. 6 - 7 layers at the lower gudgeon.

We leave the peel-ply on until the very last moment, then give it a touch up sand and into it.
Peel-ply also mean no possibility of contamination with the Pu foam, when you pull the Peel-Ply off, everything is pristine.

1667622906861.png


Covered with "Oven Bake" paper ready to "blow".
1667623418666.png


GT with the core, weight approx 1kgs, near perfcet!
We will let it settle, for 3-4 days, probably make the rudder Tuesday!

jB
 

gazasmith

New member
4
1
Julian
Vivace was rerigged a few years ago with SS, i looked the other day and think it is 4, 5 and 6mm.
the boat gets a lot of time derigged so i feel rope rigging would be a nightmare because of the shrinkage and stretch of the rope.
i use SK78 (i think) on my arrow Cat. if boat has been sitting more than a week i over tension rig, have a few beers etc then adjust tension just before hitting the water. doing this i am getting consistent rig tuning. have thought of making dummy spreaders so i can keep shrouds loaded between sailing.

its a shame we didn't catch up at ABRW would have loved to share a beer.

IMG_0072.JPG
 

JulianB

Super Anarchist
1,247
1,803
Sydney mostly
So for all sorts of reasons we are planning to make the rudder tomorrow.

Today was spent on the mast, fin and spreaders.

I got my consrictor in, first go

1667728103062.png

This is the underside, I made a baslat shoe, to reduce the possibility of Electrolysis.
Those are 4 x M5 taped threads into the alloy constrictor body.
1667728242208.png

This is the topside, so to speak, the knot in the trigger line running though a eye/bolt on the side is to stop over tripping the constrictor.
Shockcord tensioning of teh constrictor is up into the mast head fitting.

If you look up inside the constrictor you can see my tapped holes pocking through.

I'm using a 6mm dia constrictor, and I have shaved it down considerably (as you can see).
Using 4mm SK99 halyard working-end, with a very long splice, almost 500mm so it's 5.5mm approx where it passes through the rope constrictor. Then spliced that onto a bit of M6 SK78 cored rope approx 1200 down which is where the reef will grab. Few adjustments, and took the whole thing through to 1 tonne in bench testing and it all seems to work.

Need to stress, amazingly it all worked, 1st time, trigger works, won't say it faultless because thats way to early, but it worked amazingly well.
Time will tell. Be interesting in 25-30knts when we go for a reef to see if it triggers as it should.

1667728590532.png

Actual masthead fitting in place, it's POM (Acetal), the cap shrouds are anchorded by the front M8 bolt, and on that a A4786-8 ball race sheave carries the spin halyard. For simplicity the aft M8 also bolt carries the same sheave for the main halyard (2:1), dose not need to be a ball race, but what the hell.
You can see the shockcord in the side that "arms' the constrictor upwards. Windex mount ontop.
I did do a Basalt "bra" not that it's needed but it was so simple and will completely stop any migration of the bolts.
Simple low frictoin ring "lashed" into place sp the spinhalyard feeds properly.
When we went from an external swiled block to a fixed sheave on the 49er, set times drop dramaticaly as the friction drop.
But it's important to guid the rope onto the sheave. Spinhalyard is SK78 M4 spliced onto a M6 rope tail.

1667728891102.png

4 x M5 MT holding the Constrictor in place inside the mast, they are Ti, plus lots of Tuf-Gel.

Rudder tomorrow, flow coat the otherside of the fin.

Light is getting brighter at the other end of the tunnel.
 

WCB

Super Anarchist
4,495
890
Park City, UT
So for all sorts of reasons we are planning to make the rudder tomorrow.

Today was spent on the mast, fin and spreaders.

I got my consrictor in, first go

View attachment 551107
This is the underside, I made a baslat shoe, to reduce the possibility of Electrolysis.
Those are 4 x M5 taped threads into the alloy constrictor body.
View attachment 551108
This is the topside, so to speak, the knot in the trigger line running though a eye/bolt on the side is to stop over tripping the constrictor.
Shockcord tensioning of teh constrictor is up into the mast head fitting.

If you look up inside the constrictor you can see my tapped holes pocking through.

I'm using a 6mm dia constrictor, and I have shaved it down considerably (as you can see).
Using 4mm SK99 halyard working-end, with a very long splice, almost 500mm so it's 5.5mm approx where it passes through the rope constrictor. Then spliced that onto a bit of M6 SK78 cored rope approx 1200 down which is where the reef will grab. Few adjustments, and took the whole thing through to 1 tonne in bench testing and it all seems to work.

Need to stress, amazingly it all worked, 1st time, trigger works, won't say it faultless because thats way to early, but it worked amazingly well.
Time will tell. Be interesting in 25-30knts when we go for a reef to see if it triggers as it should.

View attachment 551109
Actual masthead fitting in place, it's POM (Acetal), the cap shrouds are anchorded by the front M8 bolt, and on that a A4786-8 ball race sheave carries the spin halyard. For simplicity the aft M8 also bolt carries the same sheave for the main halyard (2:1), dose not need to be a ball race, but what the hell.
You can see the shockcord in the side that "arms' the constrictor upwards. Windex mount ontop.
I did do a Basalt "bra" not that it's needed but it was so simple and will completely stop any migration of the bolts.
Simple low frictoin ring "lashed" into place sp the spinhalyard feeds properly.
When we went from an external swiled block to a fixed sheave on the 49er, set times drop dramaticaly as the friction drop.
But it's important to guid the rope onto the sheave. Spinhalyard is SK78 M4 spliced onto a M6 rope tail.

View attachment 551110
4 x M5 MT holding the Constrictor in place inside the mast, they are Ti, plus lots of Tuf-Gel.

Rudder tomorrow, flow coat the otherside of the fin.

Light is getting brighter at the other end of the tunnel.
Like kids at christmas it's getting a little hard to wait to see it all come together and get sailing!
 

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