A cool fix

Thorvald

Member
405
0
Puget Sound
First of all here's what happened yesterday. I thought the stainless clew ring was just showing some surface corrosion. Wrong! The soft shackle held but the stainless which had been in contact with the carbon in the sail blew out. Kinda ruined my race. So I'm thinking there goes $150 or so and the hassle of taking the sail into the sailmaker for a new clew ring, pulling the webbing and the whole bit.

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So I tossed and turned last night for a while and kept thinking, why do I even need the stainless ring at all? here's what I came up with. Sooo simple and took about five minutes. Just pulled the ring with some vicegrips and fished a small line through pulled the softie through and I'm done. What do you think? Now the soft shackle is part of the sail. Need I say I have great faith in the softies now?

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estarzinger

Super Anarchist
7,516
916
. What do you think?
you did ask :)

I am not a sailmaker but . . . Those webbing pieces on the sail were configured for a stainless ring and I would guess they are not as well configured for a softy.

I would think that the stainless ring loaded the 3 pieces of webbing on the sail relatively evenly because it was a fixed shape; but that the softy (which will not be a 'circle shape' under load) will point load on the outside edges of the 2 outside webbing pieces.

A softy in the corner could of course work perfectly well, but I would guess the webbing would want to be configured differently than for a stainless ring.

But I could well be wrong, and you will have to let us know how it works in practice!

As an aside, two 'tack strop' failures on J2's on this volvo leg (puma and camper). Both sails then ripped in half. So to look at the glass half full, you can could your blessings that your sail did not then rip into pieces.

 
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I like it!

You might find that your webbing wears a bit faster because a solid SS ring can rectify the loads a bit more evenly.

But really great solution. I love softies, never go to sea without a couple in my pocket.

 

belandm

Super Anarchist
1,504
0
Everett, WA
I think the conservative approach would be to take the sail in and ask them to reconfigure the webbing for a soft hank. I think Estar's right about the loading, but that should be a solvable problem, and the end result will be a better sail that won't have the same problem again - well worth the $150 to solve the problem once and not have to deal with it again.

 

Thorvald

Member
405
0
Puget Sound
. What do you think?
you did ask :)

I am not a sailmaker but . . . Those webbing pieces on the sail were configured for a stainless ring and I would guess they are not as well configured for a softy.

I would think that the stainless ring loaded the 3 pieces of webbing on the sail relatively evenly because it was a fixed shape; but that the softy (which will not be a 'circle shape' under load) will point load on the outside edges of the 2 outside webbing pieces.

A softy in the corner could of course work perfectly well, but I would guess the webbing would want to be configured differently than for a stainless ring.

But I could well be wrong, and you will have to let us know how it works in practice!

As an aside, two 'tack strop' failures on J2's on this volvo leg (puma and camper). Both sails then ripped in half. So to look at the glass half full, you can could your blessings that your sail did not then rip into pieces.
I did think about the loading issue on the outside webs. We'll see. Easy enough to take it out for a trial run to see if the outside webs look overly stressed.

 

Tucky

Super Anarchist
3,497
22
Maine
I did think about the loading issue on the outside webs. We'll see. Easy enough to take it out for a trial run to see if the outside webs look overly stressed.
Because you did ask . . . . . . On the one hand the stainless ring spreads the load because of its rigid shape so you should choose that one.

But wait, the stainless corrodes against carbon so you should choose the soft hank which won't corrode.

But wait, the rigidity of the stainless requires that the webbing be structured for it, while the soft ring will distort its shape and allow the clew area to distort until the load bears evenly against the three webbing straps, assuming you make the soft hank long enough . . . . . . . . . . .

Right?

 

Thorvald

Member
405
0
Puget Sound
I did think about the loading issue on the outside webs. We'll see. Easy enough to take it out for a trial run to see if the outside webs look overly stressed.
Because you did ask . . . . . . On the one hand the stainless ring spreads the load because of its rigid shape so you should choose that one.

But wait, the stainless corrodes against carbon so you should choose the soft hank which won't corrode.

But wait, the rigidity of the stainless requires that the webbing be structured for it, while the soft ring will distort its shape and allow the clew area to distort until the load bears evenly against the three webbing straps, assuming you make the soft hank long enough . . . . . . . . . . .

Right?
Not sure exactly, but just pulling on the connection by hand it seems that the strapping is a little more stretchy than you might think and allows the load to bear fairly evenly on the webbing. Also, you can see in the picture that the outside straps each overlap the center one by half their width so except for those outer halves the load all comes together on one strap width. Glad to be the test pilot on this. I'll have to takes some pics when I'm sailing again and have the connection loaded up.

 

Rohanoz

Super Anarchist
Seen a lot of endeavour rings pressed in carbon sails fail in a very short amount of time, but not external clew rings like this. And, it doesn't appear to be a very high carbon sail...

Exactly how was it in contact with the carbon in the sailcloth? Or was it stored underwater? Did the ring fail at the weld?, or was faulty from the start?

Anyway, soft shackle imho, shouldn't cause too many issues as you have done it. Watch for chafe to see if it the webbing or shackle which will go first.

 

Thorvald

Member
405
0
Puget Sound
It's a Tape Drive sail. All the carbon tapes are on the other side of the fabric you see in the picture, and there's alot of them. Pretty much solid carbon at that point. I think they just laid them on and then cut the ends off where the clew ring went so all those ends were bang into the ring. The weld was intact. It wasn't under water but I'd did spend it's early life in Florida before I bought it from a used sail website. I'l be doing as you say re-chafe.

 

Thorvald

Member
405
0
Puget Sound
How about four softies,one for each loop to distribute the load evenly?

Phil
winner winner, chicken dinner....

done right, this will equalize the loads, AND lose the ring.
Not sure how that would work. Four softies for three webs. Like I said I'll test it for you. I'd have the sailmaker reconfig the webbing before I messed around with three or four softies. Ideally you would have the webbing all come together at one point and perhaps have a good inch or so of air between it and the sail so you could tie a sheet through if you wanted. Don't see any downside to that or to losing the ring either.

 

Thorvald

Member
405
0
Puget Sound
Ages ago, 40+ years, we had a jib with a webbing clew. It chafed through where the sheet rubbed it. Most webbing isn't particularly chafe resistant. Keep an eye on it.

BV
Good heads up BV. Hopefully the chafe will occur on the softie which could be changed out. Might be an arguement for keeping the webbing tight so the chafe occurs on the softie and not the webbing. Or maybe it's not that good of an idea at all.

 
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