A Hobie Wave to start with?

Tomfl

Member
I have a Seawind and have singlehanded it for several years and over 5,600 miles.  Also have a Prindle 18-2 which is actually not as easy to single hand as the Seawind.  One thing I would note about most beach cats is raising the mast is much easier with more than one person, same for launching at the beach.  Not trying to talk you out of a beach cat to start out with as I think they are just as good as a small monohull.  But as others have noted there is a huge difference between big boats and small ones. 

One of the biggest differences (WARNING RANT ALERT) in my mind is anchoring.  Truth be told while I am all in favor of getting experience in round the buoy races you will never get good at anchoring doing that.  In fact a lot of what you learn in round the buoy races is not always applicable to cruising.  As an example I tend to spend time trimming the sheets and adjusting the traveler so the my Seawind tracks like a freight train on tracks once I have the course for a passage while when racing sails are trimmed multiple times and it is almost expected to have some weather helm.

On the other hand any time you spend on the water alone or with others who can teach you is time well spent.  One key factor you did not mention is where you are located.  In many places it is easy to walk the docks, stop in a marina day room, or visit a yacht club and talk to folks who often will offer you rides or crew positions for weekly races.  If you can find a local place where beach cats meet up it may well be worth your while to do that.  Again not trying to talk you out of a Wave, just saying there are tons of different beach cats to choose from and trying out different ones will help you figure out which one suits you best.

Also keep in mind there are plenty of boats out there and you don't have buy the first one.

 

Tomfl

Member
Says the guy that doesn't know what a boom vang is
Truth be told plenty of multihulls don't have a boom vang; including Seawinds and Maincats.  On the other hand adjusting a traveler is a very important skill to learn on multihulls.  Not trying to start a darkside/lightside discussion but there are real differences in the skills needed for each one.  One example is when anchoring cats almost always use a bridle; not so much with monohulls.

 

MultiThom

Super Anarchist
1,745
392
Benicia, CA
Tomfl is absolutely correct about anchoring and mooring and I want to add docking.  A big multihull acts differently than little boats--and a multihull acts differently than a keelboat.  A plastic boat (wave) won't need fenders and you can bang it up a lot while learning, so that is a plus, but docking an 1160 will cost a lot of money if you get it wrong.  

 

Dolores

New member
18
4
I have a Seawind and have singlehanded it for several years and over 5,600 miles.  Also have a Prindle 18-2 which is actually not as easy to single hand as the Seawind.  One thing I would note about most beach cats is raising the mast is much easier with more than one person, same for launching at the beach.  Not trying to talk you out of a beach cat to start out with as I think they are just as good as a small monohull.  But as others have noted there is a huge difference between big boats and small ones. 

One of the biggest differences (WARNING RANT ALERT) in my mind is anchoring.  Truth be told while I am all in favor of getting experience in round the buoy races you will never get good at anchoring doing that.  In fact a lot of what you learn in round the buoy races is not always applicable to cruising.  As an example I tend to spend time trimming the sheets and adjusting the traveler so the my Seawind tracks like a freight train on tracks once I have the course for a passage while when racing sails are trimmed multiple times and it is almost expected to have some weather helm.

On the other hand any time you spend on the water alone or with others who can teach you is time well spent.  One key factor you did not mention is where you are located.  In many places it is easy to walk the docks, stop in a marina day room, or visit a yacht club and talk to folks who often will offer you rides or crew positions for weekly races.  If you can find a local place where beach cats meet up it may well be worth your while to do that.  Again not trying to talk you out of a Wave, just saying there are tons of different beach cats to choose from and trying out different ones will help you figure out which one suits you best.

Also keep in mind there are plenty of boats out there and you don't have buy the first one.
Something tells me I'll own something like Catalina 22 at some point, before moving onto a 1160. I'll have to find a way to make that phase as cheap as possible though. I'll never sell the Wave if I buy one, so I might even buy that brand new. But a boat like Cat22 has to be cheap and 'in sailing condition.' You see too many expenses emerge once a small keel boat is bought. Either a dock has to be arranged or a truck / trailer to pull - plus maintenance and fixing here and there, just to sell her in a few years. Catalina 22 Sport is as simple as it can get. Cheap and easy to find. There are races, and I've seen many single-handing them. Possible, will be boring after a Wave, but seems like a necessary step to become a capable sailor.

Catalina 22 National Sailing Association - US Sailing

 
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Dolores

New member
18
4
Tomfl is absolutely correct about anchoring and mooring and I want to add docking.  A big multihull acts differently than little boats--and a multihull acts differently than a keelboat.  A plastic boat (wave) won't need fenders and you can bang it up a lot while learning, so that is a plus, but docking an 1160 will cost a lot of money if you get it wrong.  
Yeah, I think I see something like Catalina 22 in my future after the Wave. It wouldn't hurt - if I can keep it sailing as cheap as possible.

 

kruiter

Member
64
44
Honlulu
I started off on a Hobie Bravo.  Read the manual, pushed it off the beach.   The advantage over the wave, is that it is easier for one person to manage out of the water.  Not sure how easy it would be to find one.  You will not be making long treks on it or racing or anything like that, but it will easily carry 400 lbs or so of people and nothing could be simpler.  Next step for me was a Hobie 16.  A lot of fun, but harder to handle for one person.  Even at 280lbs I could not right it in the water, and hard to move it up the beach by myself.  Still no coach.  Since I could not right it, I could only sail it where the wind was on shore so I would end up on the beach eventually.  Transitioning to a larger boat in a marina was a bigger effort...harder to handle, navigating in and out of the marina while doing no harm, going out further from land.  I ended up finding a friend to come along and coach/help.  Not with the sailing aspects, but with docking and anchoring, etc.  Hard to say if I would be sailing better if I had stated out with a small keel or a club.  I feel like my sail trim is ok, and other sailors who have come out with me have not had corrections to offer when asked.  Also, my larger boat is a cheap '70s tri.  So, if I smack it into the dock now and then, I just fix it up next time I have it out.  No big deal and no big worry.  I'm pretty sure I would not trust myself getting a $700k Neel or Rapido or something, on and off the dock in high winds by myself.   Maybe thrusters would help, but probably it would be stupid the be single handing a boat that large anyhow.  Actually, I general I mostly drifted away from single handing, after an event where I slipped jumping onto the dock to tie up the boat.  Smacked my head on the dock on the way past.  Managed to get the boat tied onto a cleat whilst in the water before it blew away, and did not hit my head in a way that I passed out, and had a friend in the marina who could lower a ladder for me, but lot of possible bad outcomes that I avoided by luck.  So, anyway, one thing to consider for your transition to a larger boat is that you may want to have someone with you when you go out, and this can have big logistical impact.

 

Dolores

New member
18
4
I started off on a Hobie Bravo.  Read the manual, pushed it off the beach.   The advantage over the wave, is that it is easier for one person to manage out of the water.  Not sure how easy it would be to find one.  You will not be making long treks on it or racing or anything like that, but it will easily carry 400 lbs or so of people and nothing could be simpler.  Next step for me was a Hobie 16.  A lot of fun, but harder to handle for one person.  Even at 280lbs I could not right it in the water, and hard to move it up the beach by myself.  Still no coach.  Since I could not right it, I could only sail it where the wind was on shore so I would end up on the beach eventually.  Transitioning to a larger boat in a marina was a bigger effort...harder to handle, navigating in and out of the marina while doing no harm, going out further from land.  I ended up finding a friend to come along and coach/help.  Not with the sailing aspects, but with docking and anchoring, etc.  Hard to say if I would be sailing better if I had stated out with a small keel or a club.  I feel like my sail trim is ok, and other sailors who have come out with me have not had corrections to offer when asked.  Also, my larger boat is a cheap '70s tri.  So, if I smack it into the dock now and then, I just fix it up next time I have it out.  No big deal and no big worry.  I'm pretty sure I would not trust myself getting a $700k Neel or Rapido or something, on and off the dock in high winds by myself.   Maybe thrusters would help, but probably it would be stupid the be single handing a boat that large anyhow.  Actually, I general I mostly drifted away from single handing, after an event where I slipped jumping onto the dock to tie up the boat.  Smacked my head on the dock on the way past.  Managed to get the boat tied onto a cleat whilst in the water before it blew away, and did not hit my head in a way that I passed out, and had a friend in the marina who could lower a ladder for me, but lot of possible bad outcomes that I avoided by luck.  So, anyway, one thing to consider for your transition to a larger boat is that you may want to have someone with you when you go out, and this can have big logistical impact.
Oh, I've seen the Bravos. As simple as it gets, but not a good sailer - I guess. I think I've made my mind with the Wave for the very first phase of my learning process. I'll keep that even after upgrading. About the second boat, I think most members who responded here are right, hopping on a new 1160 (if one could ever be found) from a Wave would be a financial catastrophe waiting to happen. I should not be making my newbie mistakes on a big expensive cat. I start to think that my second boat has to be something in 22 - 25 ft range. A used small keel sailboat maybe - tiller / transom hung rudder, fractional sloop rig, lift / swing keel, ctrb w/keel or fin keel, and outboard. Or an old tri like yours. What's your boat, by the way?

 
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MultiThom

Super Anarchist
1,745
392
Benicia, CA
Yeah, I think I see something like Catalina 22 in my future after the Wave. It wouldn't hurt - if I can keep it sailing as cheap as possible.
You will be surprised how expensive a cheap boat gets to be.  But you will get some good hands on experience fixing stuff.  Nothing cheaper, though, than other peoples' boats.  If you get ASA certified, you can charter boats bare-even big cats.  Expensive for the trips, but not nearly expensive as owning.  

 
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Dolores

New member
18
4
You will be surprised how expensive a cheap boat gets to be.  But you will get some good hands on experience fixing stuff.  
Oh, I know, trust me. That's why I wanted to skip that phase and jump on a 1160 from a Wave.

Let's say I found a Catalina 22, old but still holding. A dock or a truck / trailer will be a necessity. Despite being a simple boat, still, some things will cost money. Time will be wasted to fix and the list goes on. Sailing clubs are not free either but could be a cheaper deal according to the location.

 
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Dolores

New member
18
4
Nothing cheaper, though, than other peoples' boats.  If you get ASA certified, you can charter boats bare-even big cats.  Expensive for the trips, but not nearly expensive as owning.  
Okay, you added some stuff, so I had to add this comment to the prior one. :)

I'm starting to understand where you're coming from. I will definitely buy the Wave, because I want that boat. But then I'll possibly consider some sailing clubs and spend the $s on some ASA certifications. I can sail the club's J24s or what not and charter some cats in the Bahamas when I am ready.

Mistakes shall be made on others' boats.  :p

 

TBW

Member
431
240
Oh, I've seen the Bravos. As simple as it gets, but not a good sailer - I guess. 
I wouldn't say that at all.  I have a Bravo, as well as a Prindle 16 and 2 mono hulls and the Bravo might be the most fun of my boats to sail.  Not as fast as the Prindle obviously, but a lot more manageable solo and fast enough for cruising (not racing).

I can step the mast and rig it solo in minutes (not so with the Prindle).  Can drag it up the beach on my own with minimal effort, right it after a capsize with minimal effort.  The roller reefing/roller furling main alone makes it a pretty handy solo boat.

It's a 12 foot boat and comes with all the limitations of a 12 foot boat, but for a car toppable solo beach cat I think it's a pretty fun boat. FB_IMG_1650625927980.jpg

 

Dolores

New member
18
4
I wouldn't say that at all.  I have a Bravo, as well as a Prindle 16 and 2 mono hulls and the Bravo might be the most fun of my boats to sail.  Not as fast as the Prindle obviously, but a lot more manageable solo and fast enough for cruising (not racing).

I can step the mast and rig it solo in minutes (not so with the Prindle).  Can drag it up the beach on my own with minimal effort, right it after a capsize with minimal effort.  The roller reefing/roller furling main alone makes it a pretty handy solo boat.

It's a 12 foot boat and comes with all the limitations of a 12 foot boat, but for a car toppable solo beach cat I think it's a pretty fun boat. View attachment 506311
Roller furling must be handy. But seems too heavy to car top. I watched some videos. It sails not too bad. If I have to compare her to Wave, then I pick Wave though. Bravo was a good boat for resorts, easy to manage. way less maintenance.

 

J_Grove

Member
114
51
Biscayne Bay
Like so many posts on SA, this thread just seems a little off to me. What happened to Lexi, the middle age man who was our one-post and done OP?  How nice for Delores to be able to step right into the thread of another person interested in using a Wave as a stepping stone between don't-know-how-to-sail and a Seawind 1160.  Perhaps Lexi thinks a name and gender change to Delores with hottie avatar is going to get him a better response. Well Lexi, apparently you're a quick study.

You are certainly are on the sailing quality of boats as well. I've never had a person who didn't know how to sail comment to me on how well a boat would sail. Or what the challenges of owning a Catalina 22 are. Or a total non-sailor that already has an appetite for racing. But one can learn a lot from videos and internet research and you surely have.

Lot of good advice on this thread by more experienced and better sailors than me. You will definitely learn more by going out with better sailors. I am almost completely self taught and as a result am a very average sailor that mostly gets by on the basics. I think if you are a cruiser that's ok. There is tremendous learning value in going out alone, so that everything that happens depends on you. The confidence light comes on. When we bought our first F boat, my wife didn't know how to sail, and wasn't taking to it. She didn't start to like sailing until I "gifted" her lessons on a Sunfish at a sailing club. Just her on a boat with a sheet and tiller in hand. It wasn't long before she was out there every week for wednesday night racing. But if you want to get serious about racing, learning by watching and doing what others are doing is invaluable.

Also Dolores, if you're like Lexi and want to "gain the necessary reflexes sailing a beach cat" then I think you shouldn't be so quick to dismiss the venerable Hobie 16. The Wave is one of the most forgiving cats made. If you want reflexes, I'm not saying you need to get a foiling F-18. But recovering from stuffing the lee bow, or tripping over it and having to right a capsized boat, are skills it sounds like you want to develop. You can't learn to properly wrap a winch on a beachcat, but you can get practice keeping a clear head when the shit hits the fan and its up to you to resolve the situation.

I went from dingy (self-built, not recommended) to a Hobie 16 to a Corsair 24II for the next step up. It made me lol when I read you want a Catalina 22 after your beach cat. Once you're a multi-huller, there's no coming back from the dark side. You should know that from your research. You will never be happy going 4 knots again.

I have an F27 now so learning about handling an even bigger boat. But still I have no experience with inboard engines, cooking and plumbing systems, etc etc. I know I'll really only learn all that stuff when I buy a blue water cruising boat and go cruising. If I was you and didn't have my family-driven schedule, I'd go right from learning-to-sail to the boat I will cruise in ASAP. Just don't buy a shiny newish one unless you're mr moneybags. The way you talk about just buying a new Wave and keeping it forever makes me thinks you are. So in that case my advice to you is Hobie 16 --> Seawind 1160.

 
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kruiter

Member
64
44
Honlulu
 What's your boat, by the way?
I have what is believed to be a Horstman '31, but it could just as easily be a Piver, or a Searunner, Marples, Cross, or what have you.  There were a reasonable number of Trimarans home built in the '70s that are still around and available in the $0 to $20K range.  In good shape they are reasonable, seaworthy boats.

 
Hobie wave is a great option, cats don’t tack like monos, there is not much point in learning that you just push or pull the tiller and the boat will turn through the wind like a mono does. Cats off the wind hull has to be urged through the wind and waves in order to complete a tack. Once you have mastered the Hobie you could then look at an old Nacra 18 square which is 10 or 11 foot wide singlehander and once you have mastered that on every wind angle you will be very confident 

 

illan_voyager

New member
43
11
If you don't find a wave, (plastic (or small) trimarans could qualify here too!) - there is no reason to fear the older generation beach cat as a beginner such as hobie 16, 14, prindle 16, nacra 5.0 or others. Your first few times out, sure , under 8 knots of wind is best- & you will want to pay close attention forecast/conditions. But you will quickly get a feel for it. You could always set up the boat with reduced sail area depending on prevailing conditions.  One good thing about the wave, nearly indestructible &you probably can resell it for about what you paid once you're done with it. Other beachcats can have an even lower buy-in though (and go faster or more potential etc) so might be worth considering that route as well. 

Some considerations that MIGHT be important to you as a good candidate for singlehanded/beginner: -no daggerboards? -no boom? -mainsail only? (or will it sail/tack ok with only mainsail up?)

 

MultiThom

Super Anarchist
1,745
392
Benicia, CA
Roller furling must be handy. But seems too heavy to car top. I watched some videos. It sails not too bad. If I have to compare her to Wave, then I pick Wave though. Bravo was a good boat for resorts, easy to manage. way less maintenance.
Roller furling around the mast has a big drawback when you want to reef by furling partway around the mast.  The position of max camber moves aft and you can't point going to weather while reefed.  S'OK if you can stand it or only go out when wind is light enough to keep full sail.  

 

TBW

Member
431
240
Roller furling around the mast has a big drawback when you want to reef by furling partway around the mast.  The position of max camber moves aft and you can't point going to weather while reefed.  S'OK if you can stand it or only go out when wind is light enough to keep full sail.  
I haven't had that problem with my Bravo.  Take it out 20+ all the time.  Bravo sails along flat and happy with deep reef.  Goes to weather fine reefed.  Bravo's are great in windy conditions. 

bravoreef3.png

 
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