A question about safety

Please refer me to a discussion elsewhere if there is one, but I don't see that anyone has examined what would happen if that kickass promotional video becomes reality...............and then there's a crash.

Scenario: a half dozen boats screaming to a downwind mark. The lead boat hits a wave (it happens in the Bay) and bang - pitchpoles immediately - launching the crew out of the stern like a circus teeter-board. If they're tethered, they'll get thrashed when the boat stops suddenly, then hang like limp meat until they can lower themselves down or be rescued. If they fall, then they need to miss every solid piece of rigging on the way down in order to not break bones.

I don't want to be doomy-gloomy, but it seems that one good wipe-out could send a dozen or more good sailors to the hospital. As we keep trying to compare ourselves to Formula 1 or other motorsports, the (recent) safety record of the upper echelon of that genre is enviable. It won't take much human carnage to sour the public on our new model.

Insiders or cat-savvy peeps, what can be done / is being done to make this safe without making it lame?

 

EaglesPDX

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Scenario: a half dozen boats screaming to a downwind mark.
Isn't this a common scenario in existing multihull racing with no issues?

Also these are match races vs. fleet races.

And we saw match race of much larger, faster multi-hulls in AC33 with no safety issue. Interesting article in Yachting World a while back on injuries in sailing.

 

DryArmour

Super Anarchist
You could ask Gino Morrelli about that...
The bay is generally flat water and the boats will use cambered daggerboards and plenty of prismatic value so I don't see going over the handlebars all that likely. The puffs in the Bay can be big but the increase is usually no more than about 8-9 knots over the more static wind speed so shoving the nose under is unlikely as compared to sailing X-40s in the Alps where the breeze can go from 17 to 40 in a heart beat.

Could you pitchpole one of the new 72s? Probably given the right circumstances but I see it as unlikely.

To answer your question though about what would happen: Typically a pitch pole on a maxi is a relatively slow process. I would hope that some sort of jack-line would be provided for those in the back of the bus with a high load easy release carbine attaching them to the boat. Time will tell.

If it is bigger, faster or brighter or someone can die, Americans will watch it.

 
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JL92S

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surely they would just pull out all the camber and dump sheet? even an extreme 40 doesn't just 'trip' up and go over in a second. they should be pretty safe, pretty low loads on the wing sheet. there was another thread about these boats being impossible to capsize

 

Indio

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Isn't this a common scenario in existing multihull racing with no issues?

Also these are match races vs. fleet races.

And we saw match race of much larger, faster multi-hulls in AC33 with no safety issue. Interesting article in Yachting World a while back on injuries in sailing.
What match-racing you fucking incontinent retard!! There were only two boats involved, separated by hundreds of metres.
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Tornado-Cat

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surely they would just pull out all the camber and dump sheet? even an extreme 40 doesn't just 'trip' up and go over in a second. they should be pretty safe, pretty low loads on the wing sheet. there was another thread about these boats being impossible to capsize
No, Extreme 40 have a big tendency to pitch pole. And to say that these boats going at 40 knots cannot capsize or pitchpole is just mad !

Here is a video of the Hydroptere crashing at 60 knots:


 

EaglesPDX

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Isn't this a common scenario in existing multihull racing with no issues?

Also these are match races vs. fleet races.

And we saw match race of much larger, faster multi-hulls in AC33 with no safety issue. Interesting article in Yachting World a while back on injuries in sailing.
What match-racing you fucking incontinent retard!! There were only two boats involved, separated by hundreds of metres.
Likely the best, purest America's Cup since the J's.

21st Century.

/monthly_01_2011/post-45672-054435700%201294981619_thumb.jpg

 

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CAsailor

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Could they use a hydraulic sheet release on the main trigger by excessive healing? I thought I saw some ORMA 60 or something touting that feature....

 

dogwatch

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As we keep trying to compare ourselves to Formula 1 or other motorsports, the (recent) safety record of the upper echelon of that genre is enviable.
"Recent" is a salient qualification as historically, "racing car driver" has not been a job description that won the hearts of actuarial profession. Watching car racing hasn't always been safe either e.g. 83 killed at Le Mans in 1955.

Yes the chances of well-known sailor or two being killed or badly injured is a distinct possibility. Those who believe these boats cannot pitchpole or capsize

on flattish water should perhaps watch the X40s 2010 series TV coverage where footage of crashes is repeated ad-nauseam.

2008cowes_isharescup_collison_3_1.jpg


 

Wandering Geo

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Insiders or cat-savvy peeps, what can be done / is being done to make this safe without making it lame?
Probably exactly the same was done with the IACC boats that had a tendencey crack in half and sink very, very quickly and try and take the crew down with them, leave it to the designers and crew to resolve the safety issues (hard hards, bouyancy vest, close support boats etc.).

Least the boats won't sink.

When was the last time someone was killed/badly injured in a G Class or ORMA 60 Class pitchpole?

 

dogwatch

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When was the last time someone was killed/badly injured in a G Class or ORMA 60 Class pitchpole?
Not recently since AFAIK neither of those classes actively exists right now. Don't think the ORMA 60s have had a championship since 2007? Class Gs now being built for an event in 2013-2014, allegedly,

In the 2002 Route de Rhum there was 3 ORMA 60 finishers out of 18 starters. Fortunately nobody was killed. Some guy called Franck Cammas capsized. The name might ring a few bells. Another boat then hit him - in an ocean race! http://articles.cnn....hum?_s=PM:WORLD

 
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maxmini

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When was the last time someone was killed/badly injured in a G Class or ORMA 60 Class pitchpole?
Not recently since AFAIK neither of those classes actively exists right now. Don't think the ORMA 60s have had a championship since 2007? Class Gs now being built for an event in 2013-2014, allegedly,

In the 2002 Route de Rhum there was 3 ORMA 60 finishers out of 18 starters. Fortunately nobody was killed. Some guy called Franck Cammas capsized. The name might ring a few bells. Another boat then hit him - in an ocean race! http://articles.cnn....hum?_s=PM:WORLD

Now there is something to ponder . I do think that the first contact between the boats is going to be interesting .

 

Chockles

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The recent Extreme 40 2010 season recap TV program that Dogwatch mentioned not only had a bunch of sudden stop pitch-poles, but also some collisions between racers and "civilian" boats. Plus one crew-less collision with a seawall. The AC72's could potentially be a real freak show.

One mitigating factor that Spithill and others have mentioned are the various alarm systems used on Oracle, though he also said the alarms were going off so often that they eventually just ignored them.

My best guess is that after the first major crash, the teams will be armoring-up with a few pieces of motocross and motorcycle road racing gear. That stuff is lightweight, could easily be worn under standard foulies, and is practically bulletproof. Great for protecting all the important bits when things don't go as planned.

Whatever happens, ya gotta figure that no one is going to want to free-fall up to 80' wearing only a Musto jacket and a team t-shirt.

 
So the ORMA's don't exist - BS, there are numbers of them around and active, one here in Auckland, a good number in Sweden - still no losses, but the point, before pedantry set in, is that prior to the class fading as a group entity, there were many years of many ORMA 60's doing their thing, race sailing very, very fast and often in fleet numbers ... and the point remains, (although there were definite boat damages received during that period) no one had been killed. The 2002 Route du Rhum was without doubt a bad year for the class because the fleet was hit by very heavy conditions so there were many breakages and some capsizes ... but the collision happened in a black night with an inverted boat rammed by another who naturally, could see no lights of the capsized tri. So to the worry merchants, the paranoiacs or the mischievous nay sayers, comparing, two decades of ORMA sailing to the upcoming AC in cats, doesn't make much of a negative analogy because in reality, the performances of the ORMA 60's was and is, quite outstanding. As too, I hope, the latest AC designs will be.

 

dogwatch

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So the ORMA's don't exist - BS
I said as an active class. Meaning there are no longer organised class events. Same as 12Ms and IACCs don't exist right now as an active class. Of course there are old boats around. The difference between an active class and some old boats scattered here and there isn't pedantry to anyone actually interested in sailing.

 
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The point I read that you were making, Dogwatch, is that the history of a class means zero once the class disbands as an active class. ... and I call BS. The history IS the class history and that is important for improvements. And from that you make conclusions based on that history. The ORMA 60's and the G Class designs may not be organized classes right at this moment (but the big guys are still sailing and setting records and the ORMA 60 types will return with the Multihull One Design 70's) and both classes are the results of experience and knowledge gained from, yes, the ORMA 60's. To those who are actually interested in sailing, that is.

 

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