A
A trimaran daysailer foraging boomers
- Thread starter dragontri
- Start date
MultiThom
Super Anarchist
Mike (multimarine) did a good job with the L7. Put an extended L7 mast on my F242 to try to make it work better in light wind (didn't work, by the way; F242 was still a dog in light breeze--most Corsairs are). Currently, the best tri for $ is the used L7 Mundt is selling (or one of the others if you can find one). But "best" is subjective. When I was younger, my F242 was the best boat (but I wanted an F31); then a triak was fun since it was SOOOO simple but then it is hard to sit in one spot for hours as you get older; the the Getaway was the best boat, but I never felt safe from capsize, I probably was, but a gust from nowhere and whoosh. Now a SeaRail. Truth, best sailing boat I've ever owned, but it is a chore to get into and out of the water.
Tom Kirkman
Anarchist
Believe it. I don't make up shit. The Getaway molds were out of shape by this past fall. They could no longer get good parts out of the mold.
..........
Mundt,
The Windrider has a keel to serve in the same manner as a daggerboard. For whatever reason the boat just doesn't sail close to weather. Otherwise it's a hell of a boat. A few years back I suggested to Dean that a redesign might in order - something that appeared and looked more modern. He said he didn't think it needed that. I've been thinking what might be possible with same overall concept but more modern hullls like the VPLP type being used on the Astus, Diam and Mod70 style boats. Would be interesting to see what that might do for both performance and sales. The concept has merit for those who want to sail in relative comfort and without a lot of athleticism. It has stood the test of time.
Andy is selling off a good portion of his various prototypes. I might call him this week and see if he'll let his personal WR17 go. Also for those that didn't know, Jim Brown's eyesight has gotten bad enough that he has given up sailing. But he is working on another project for a live-aboard style sailboat that he seems pretty excited about.
I've owned a number of Windriders. They're great boats. Performance could be better in some regards, but they're a lot of fun, very safe, and very tough. I've got plans for the W17 from Mike Waters, which is similar to the Windrider in some regards, but much higher performance. It's designed for plywood, but I've been discussing a foam composite build with Mike. He's also got a 19' derivative that is being prototyped now. 4 good sized adults, per the OP's requirements, would probably overload the 17, but could work for the 19.
Not everyone's got the time to build. I know I've been planning to start for the past 2 to 3 years. In fact, I'll probably be sailing a Windrider some of the time until my build is done.
Not everyone's got the time to build. I know I've been planning to start for the past 2 to 3 years. In fact, I'll probably be sailing a Windrider some of the time until my build is done.
craigiri
Super Anarchist
Yeah, I rented a WR 17 near Sarasota and it was blowing hard (20kts) and the little inlet you had to go out was about 100 feet wide between sand and docks - and I was going right into the wind. Sometimes I don't realize how much I am learning or that I am doing the nearly impossible but no one told me it sucked....so I made it through.
I frankly never need to go anywhere so perhaps upwind performance isn't that important....
It's always a boat worth discussion - because, in theory, they could redesign the thing and even with improvements I'd imagine it would sell well at 15K with a trailer new. But making new molds for roto.....and all the designing...would take a true lover of the boat with deep pockets.
Whenever I see one I am always impressed with the actual size and build (thickness of masts, etc.).....
I frankly never need to go anywhere so perhaps upwind performance isn't that important....
It's always a boat worth discussion - because, in theory, they could redesign the thing and even with improvements I'd imagine it would sell well at 15K with a trailer new. But making new molds for roto.....and all the designing...would take a true lover of the boat with deep pockets.
Whenever I see one I am always impressed with the actual size and build (thickness of masts, etc.).....
craigiri
Super Anarchist
He was 100% wrong.
It's time for an update - a redesign would sell better and for more money - and, if the market expanded they could always sell the older one to more resorts and as beater boats and cheaper and have the new 15 or 16K model which sailed just a little better....
There is probably a designer somewhat who would look at it as a challenge to keep a lot of it the same but make it better. I'd love an open cockpit model - why not a WR Sprint (all cockpit - or mostly). Sitting in those seats for more than a hour is a PITA to me...even that. they could have some seating inside and one or two seats with backs that clipped onto the tramps or amas.
It's always possible I'd end up with one anyway - in which case I'd only add some side seats and rudder controls, etc - and a small electric ON for that inlet if I ever had to go out it (I don't - because I am accessed the big part of the bay direct).
While it might suck upwind - in shallow Florida you have the advantage of using vastly more of the water than on most other boats - so you can make up for some of it. Not much good pointing well if you are in 30 foot wide channel which snakes around. I am definitely spoiled by 11 years of sailing in RI.
4tied
New member
How about the Mongoose 25 (google ‘mongoose 25 trimaran’)? I started building one in October. I’m approaching the big 60 and desire a performance daysailor. I feel this boat ticks all your boxes except the beam and traveler across the cockpit and stayed rig. This boat is not a fast build, I’m hoping 3 years. I plan on building the Mike Waters (smalltrimarans) 11 meter carbon wing mast and keeping the rigging on the simpler side.
dragontri
New member
- Thread starter
- #49
That Mongoose is beautiful and looks a lot like what I have in mind. Did George provide plans? CAD? How are you going about it? Material choices? The aft beam could easily be curved to bring it further back. Re the mast, I've been communicating with Mike Waters, I like his wing mast construction system. He really wants me to go for a W17 or W22. Stayed or unstayed mast is still up for debate but definitely a wing mast. Reason for unstayed is primarily to make it self-feathering and easy to drop, I have a system in mind that's a modification of Rafi Francke's Cat2Fold. We had a 72 ft wing stick with a 2 ft cord on Fleetwing and she scared the bejesus out of other anchored boats when she went sailing on her own anytime the breeze picked up. I remember being anchored in Bimini harbor when a blow came through, she cleared our area pretty quickly when other boats saw this 34 ft wide monster barreling towards them!
4tied
New member
Yes, I purchased the plans from George. They are a majority CAD, some hand drawn, and a lot of photos. George is providing excellent advice (very generous with his time and knowledge) as I have questions. I have some boat building experience (i550). I decided to build this boat because of the simplicity and cost relative to Farrier designs, I have plans for both f22 and f32. Also, the Mongoose fits my planned function. I like that Moose (George) designed it too.
I’m aiming to keep the construction as simple as possible. I researched carbon and S-glass, things got complicated with these choices. I’m going with glass over vertical strip M80 corecell foam with west epoxy. High load areas get 12 lb foam and vacuum bagging. I’ve designed my own oven for heating the foam, that’s working out great. The beams and mast will be uni-carbon and pro-set.
I plan to keep the boat in a slip. The mast will be rotating to a point. Hopefully, the boat won’t sail about when stowed. Is that wishful thinking on my part?
I’m aiming to keep the construction as simple as possible. I researched carbon and S-glass, things got complicated with these choices. I’m going with glass over vertical strip M80 corecell foam with west epoxy. High load areas get 12 lb foam and vacuum bagging. I’ve designed my own oven for heating the foam, that’s working out great. The beams and mast will be uni-carbon and pro-set.
I plan to keep the boat in a slip. The mast will be rotating to a point. Hopefully, the boat won’t sail about when stowed. Is that wishful thinking on my part?
MultiThom
Super Anarchist
Suggest you build your mast, then look for something to put under it. I suspect that mongoose will set you back 50 to 100K US$. Half that and 3 years if you do it yourself.
4tied
New member
MultiThom, I think you’re right. I’m budgeting 35-40 (with mast) and doing what I like to do, build boats!
4tied
New member
Dragontri, I feel the plans were reasonably priced. I feel better if you deal directly with George.
mundt, great idea. I haven’t thought that far out yet.
mundt, great idea. I haven’t thought that far out yet.
MultiThom
Super Anarchist
Have you priced out such a thing? I contacted locally and was quoted 20K US$ but he could only make it wider and longer than any slip in my local marina; so I'd have to get a double slip at nearly $1K a month. Pretty costly for a 20 foot day sailboat. Even then, I'd have to figure out how to winch on and winch off--easier to trailer sail. But If I could get one made "right size", it would be do'able, sorta.
plywoodboy
Super Anarchist
Call me biased (again) but on behalf of all the Corsair and Farrier owners imho all these comments and criteria are missing the fact that you just need the easiest budget version you can find of Sprint, Tramp, F22, Pulse, FOLDING Farrier or Corsair tri which will fit into hardstand at your club or at home, with well maintained mast raising gear that gets easier each time you use it.
These boats are built, most of us can find a few for sale a tank of gas away, and most of them can be sailed safely within a few days of buying. As my dad said when I looked at plans 7 trimarans ago, "do you want to build a boat or sail a boat? "
I will cop it for sticking my head up here so here goes:
Free-standing mast and easy rigging and performace are mutually exclusive above the size of a model yacht.
Poly plastic boats are soooooo heavy and floppy, only good in a rotomoulded windsurfer decades ago.
Sitting inside the cockpit facing forward is a kayak thing.
If you can't sail upwind efficiently, you are not sailing.
Paying to moor or berth little boats is pouring good boat and sail money into the water.
Peace and Love!
Peter H
These boats are built, most of us can find a few for sale a tank of gas away, and most of them can be sailed safely within a few days of buying. As my dad said when I looked at plans 7 trimarans ago, "do you want to build a boat or sail a boat? "
I will cop it for sticking my head up here so here goes:
Free-standing mast and easy rigging and performace are mutually exclusive above the size of a model yacht.
Poly plastic boats are soooooo heavy and floppy, only good in a rotomoulded windsurfer decades ago.
Sitting inside the cockpit facing forward is a kayak thing.
If you can't sail upwind efficiently, you are not sailing.
Paying to moor or berth little boats is pouring good boat and sail money into the water.
Peace and Love!
Peter H
OldmateFred
New member
I sort of agree with plywoodboy until you realise that your budget doesn't allow you to buy a boat but you can afford to build one.
4tied
New member
Dragontri, PM sent.