A warning from NZ over the San Fran AC bid

http://www.sail-world.com/NZ/Gladwells-Line:-Gavin,-youve-got-mail.../78050

"Those in the country of a previous America's Cup holder, New Zealand, will also be too well aware of the dangers of the brinkmanship being played out by the Board of Supervisors.

 

When your bluff gets called, in Event Poker, the end is very quick and irreversible. Never underestimate the power of Event Organisers."

 

Take heed the warning from RG, as we learnt in 2002, these events will dissapear literally overnight!

on the bright side, we are hosting the whole RWC shebang next year, the same cannot be said for San Fran getting the AC in the future...

what do you guys think?

flame on

 

Xlot

Super Anarchist
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Since I seriously doubt supes read Sail World, it's just RG kissing ass - so, what else is new?

 

EaglesPDX

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"Those in the country of a previous America's Cup holder, New Zealand, will also be too well aware of the dangers of the brinkmanship being played out by the Board of Supervisors.
 

1. Brinksmanship was being played by AC34, trying to push San Francisco with fantasy competition and news leaks etc. San Francisco has made a very nice offer and is chugging along in workmanlike, small town democracy in action fashion in finalizing it.

 

2. AC2000 was a national event/sport in New Zealand. Sailing rates behind cage fighting in the US for audience size.

 

3. All due respect to Auckland (love it, been there a bunch for AC, Whitbread etc.), it ain't San Francisco. AC34 never happens in SF it's a no never mind to 99% of San Franciscans and money better spent on streets, schools, teachers.

 

The risks are ALL on AC34's side if they lose San Francisco as the venue and have to slink off to the outback.

 

Dixie

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They may not read sail world, but I am well aware that they (or some of the FB gen minions) do read these AC threads on SA.

 
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if it doesn't happen in SF, it will definitely be BOR's loss.

They desperatly trying to find an alternative, but such a process has to be built over time. City selection has been ran very poorly and Coutts should take the full responsibility of the fuck up. Probably Ehman can share.

 

EaglesPDX

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City selection has been ran very poorly
 

In the America's Cup, there really is no "city selection" as the race is to be held in the home port of the winning yacht club. The "city selection" is a bastardization of the America's Cup introduced by the Swiss winning and not having a Deed of Gift legal "arms of the sea" to hold the America's Cup. They should not have been allowed to challenge for that reason.

 

Golden Gate Yacht Club is in San Francisco so that is the city selected.

 

No real blame on BMW/Oracle for the "city selection" charade as it was a poison left in the blood from the Alinghi poisoning.

 
287
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City selection has been ran very poorly
 

In the America's Cup, there really is no "city selection" as the race is to be held in the home port of the winning yacht club. The "city selection" is a bastardization of the America's Cup introduced by the Swiss winning and not having a Deed of Gift legal "arms of the sea" to hold the America's Cup. They should not have been allowed to challenge for that reason.

 

Golden Gate Yacht Club is in San Francisco so that is the city selected.

 

No real blame on BMW/Oracle for the "city selection" charade as it was a poison left in the blood from the Alinghi poisoning.
Your position is fully respectful, but the fact of the matter is that BOR tried to go that way (and still trying) for a sole objective: Money for Coutts.

If BOR was so clever, wouldn't have they taken a different stand and brought back what you claim are the values of the DoG? And thus simply find a technically acceptable situation in SF (it must not be that difficult to host 5 teams).

Reality is BOR is driven by greed. Ironic from one of the world's wealthiest man. Let's see what they will end up with but surely this already is to be seen as a failure from the new team in place.

 
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bcopper

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if it doesn't happen in SF, it will definitely be BOR's loss.

They desperatly trying to find an alternative, but such a process has to be built over time. City selection has been ran very poorly and Coutts should take the full responsibility of the fuck up. Probably Ehman can share.
Agree it will be unfortunate if it is not held in SF, but aren't you a bit premature with the decision as well as the blame ?

FYI LE is the strong proponent of SF, moreso than RC or TE.

Give it a few days before you jump the gun.

 

bcopper

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City selection has been ran very poorly
 

In the America's Cup, there really is no "city selection" as the race is to be held in the home port of the winning yacht club. The "city selection" is a bastardization of the America's Cup introduced by the Swiss winning and not having a Deed of Gift legal "arms of the sea" to hold the America's Cup. They should not have been allowed to challenge for that reason.

 

Golden Gate Yacht Club is in San Francisco so that is the city selected.

 

No real blame on BMW/Oracle for the "city selection" charade as it was a poison left in the blood from the Alinghi poisoning.
Your position is fully respectful, but the fact of the matter is that BOR tried to go that way (and still trying) for a sole objective: Money for Coutts.

If BOR was so clever, wouldn't have they taken a different stand and brought back what you claim are the values of the DoG? And thus simply find a technically acceptable situation in SF (it must not be that difficult to host 5 teams).

Reality is BOR is driven by greed. Ironic from one of the world's wealthiest man. Let's see what they will end up with but surely this already is to be seen as a failure from the new team in place.
I guess you don't have the sponsor side of this equation figured out, despite the fact that it's been spelled out clearly and handed to you on a platter.

If you're not willing to give it a chance, then step aside and quit your bitching or check back in around February to see how things have developed.

 

EaglesPDX

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Your position is fully respectful, but the fact of the matter is that BOR tried to go that way (and still trying) for a sole objective: Money for Coutts.
 

Not really, BMW/Oracle pretty much was San Francisco from the get go, from Ellison's post race comments to rejecting all other US venues to never really considering non-US venues. Ellison is a business man and he wanted to have a negotiating position vis a vis San Francisco, so the charade of the "Italian Job" and the "Ghost of Newport Past". Ellison has also had world class legal battles with CA municiplaities over personal issues (most notably the Titanic battle over landing his private jet after 11P at San Jose airport) so he approaches it from an adversarial business perspective. As for "money for Coutts", that's wacky conspiracy theory stuff. Coutts is paid by Ellison he doesn't make any more money no matter which venue is picked.

 

As Grant Dalton noted, America's Cup history, natural geography, demographics, economics, technology, only San Francisco ever made sense.

 

Te Kooti

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So, the city says the "Northern alternative" or nothing.

Does BOR say let's talk some more.

Or, fuck you, we're outta here!

Whatever happens, this would make a great movie.

In the same genre as those old British "plane marker" films.

High drama, espionage, bluff, big money and massive egos at play.

 

seis

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I think Alameda is the best option. All the advantages of the same venue, and no politic problems...

 

lungcathai

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Switzerland


City selection has been ran very poorly
 

In the America's Cup, there really is no "city selection" as the race is to be held in the home port of the winning yacht club. The "city selection" is a bastardization of the America's Cup introduced by the Swiss winning and not having a Deed of Gift legal "arms of the sea" to hold the America's Cup. They should not have been allowed to challenge for that reason.

Golden Gate Yacht Club is in San Francisco so that is the city selected.

 

No real blame on BMW/Oracle for the "city selection" charade as it was a poison left in the blood from the Alinghi poisoning.
Get over it, move on, we're talking about THE BRIGHT FUTURE now. (Almost) everybody is happy with the way it's going on, so bugger off with your endless tirade of yesterdays AC's and your blind hate against Ernesto. This is getting very boring. Grow up if you can.

 
what do you guys think?
Wales to beat New Zealand in the final. :D

Is that like how you beat us so convincingly this year? oh wait, you didn't; and haven't beaten us... ever ;)

On the subject at hand, It seems like the proposal of the northern option has been very badly handled by the Supes and San Fran City Council (is that what you call it in the US?). Hopefully the BMWO ultimatum will be an empty threat designed to gain maximum leverage when sorting out the new location. there also seems to be a massive flaw in that there are definite conservative (?) individuals who have decided that sailing is for rich people and that the AC will be a waste of money, despite evidence to the contrary.

If the AC doesn't make it to SF, i hope there will be serious recriminations for the incoming mayor/council from the media and the general public. you only get one shot at gold

 

bcopper

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LE is about to show his real colors. If SF does not get AC34, maybe EB was right all along.
If SF does not get the AC, it will be because the city reneged on their initial plan A agreement which included pier 50, and could not offset it with the alternative plan B.

Regardless, EB was wrong all along, which is already written in history.

 

Chockles

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what do you guys think?
Wales to beat New Zealand in the final. :D

Is that like how you beat us so convincingly this year? oh wait, you didn't; and haven't beaten us... ever ;)

On the subject at hand, It seems like the proposal of the northern option has been very badly handled by the Supes and San Fran City Council (is that what you call it in the US?). Hopefully the BMWO ultimatum will be an empty threat designed to gain maximum leverage when sorting out the new location. there also seems to be a massive flaw in that there are definite conservative (?) individuals who have decided that sailing is for rich people and that the AC will be a waste of money, despite evidence to the contrary.

If the AC doesn't make it to SF, i hope there will be serious recriminations for the incoming mayor/council from the media and the general public. you only get one shot at gold
With all due respect, you are projecting way too much intrigue into San Francisco's part in this process. What you think you are seeing; ... shadowy political figures in smoke-filled back rooms, gleefully rubbing their hands together as they plan the fleecing of poor ol' BOR, are in reality a bunch of very hard-working, underpaid and mostly unsung elected or appointed civil servants, whose one and only goal is to keep a cash-strapped City afloat.

If they can cut a deal with BOR, it's to get some rotten piers fixed, and renovate a crappy cruise terminal, and regenerate an area of the City that's been falling into ruin for decades. It is NOT an effort to rip-off BOR, done just to refill the City treasury. It was not "badly handled" at all, just "badly reported in most of the media".

I know there were a lot of dirty dealings and mudslinging down in Auckland when the AC was there, but don't project that onto SF. As others have said, most people here aren't even aware of the AC. It would be great to have it here, but not at the expense of giving away the farm in the process. In short, the AC is once in awhile, but living here is all the time.

 
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