AC36 Auckland NZ

Forourselves

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Yes, it was something like 20% which, after the boat and crew size change, turned into just one sailor.

I expect they will go 50% or higher this time. RC has said it was also his hope that it would climb, but gradually, basically for just broadcast/PR/advertising audience-draw reasons. Nothing whatsoever is 'Deed' about it.
There really isn't much "Deed" left about the AC. There was certainly nothing "Deed" about the Framework Agreement many were touting as the best thing for the future. Seems when Oracle were defending, the Deed was an antiquated piece of paper that had no place in 2017, but now that ETNZ are defending, the Deed must be complied with to the letter, otherwise they have a problem.

 

~Stingray~~

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There really isn't much "Deed" left about the AC. There was certainly nothing "Deed" about the Framework Agreement many were touting as the best thing for the future. Seems when Oracle were defending, the Deed was an antiquated piece of paper that had no place in 2017, but now that ETNZ are defending, the Deed must be complied with to the letter, otherwise they have a problem.
Agree, it's definitely antiquated. Even CiC has become relatively meaningless, and even if you apply it to native-born Designers (where the emphasis traditionally was) since they can access thinking from anywhere in the world now.

Nobody is arguing that ETNZ is not following the Deed to the letter, my only point is that while they have the right to MC crew nationality it is disingenuous to link it to what the Deed actually is about; for example when it has been held as a real DoG Match and the hired help was irrelevant, and even under early-challenge MC Matches. The motivation to enforce stricter crew rules is some combination of money from hoped-for bigger viewership interest, and possibly a secondarily goal to attack against the strongest competitive syndicates to, intentionally, weaken them. All MC-able.

 
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Sailbydate

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Agree, it's definitely antiquated. Even CiC has become relatively meaningless, and even if you apply it to native-born Designers (where the emphasis traditionally was) since they can access thinking from anywhere in the world now.

Nobody is arguing that ETNZ is not following the Deed to the letter, my only point is that while they have the right to MC crew nationality it is disingenuous to link it to what the Deed actually is about, for example were it has been held as a real DoG Match and the hired help was irrelevant. The motivation to enforce stricter crew rules is some combination of money from hoped-for bigger viewership interest, and possibly a secondarily goal to attack against the strongest competitive syndicates to, intentionally, weaken them. All MC-able.
Ha, ha. I'm enjoying your flip-flop on fairness immensely, Stinger.  :D Keep it up. 

 

~Stingray~~

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^ Nothing is unfair so far, all good.

Auckland as the venue is not Deed required but here's hoping they can get it done. That pier full of cars looks like a pretty great spot to just repurpose, wouldn't take much to cash out the current Port tenant. Would be a 15 minute decision in Seattle, the money is tiny.

 
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PJB

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Auckland
I'm with you on 80% Stingray, believe it is going to be quite stringent on the sailors.

It'll be in Auckland, plans for where the bases will go are advancing (ATEED (council owned event company) CEO was in Bermuda for a time)

 

Forourselves

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Agree, it's definitely antiquated. Even CiC has become relatively meaningless, and even if you apply it to native-born Designers (where the emphasis traditionally was) since they can access thinking from anywhere in the world now.

Nobody is arguing that ETNZ is not following the Deed to the letter, my only point is that while they have the right to MC crew nationality it is disingenuous to link it to what the Deed actually is about; for example when it has been held as a real DoG Match and the hired help was irrelevant, and even under early-challenge MC Matches. The motivation to enforce stricter crew rules is some combination of money from hoped-for bigger viewership interest, and possibly a secondarily goal to attack against the strongest competitive syndicates to, intentionally, weaken them. All MC-able.
They didn't link it to what the deed is actually about, what they stated was "in recognition of the fundamental condition of the deed of gift that the cup be preserved as a perpetual challenge cup for friendly competition between foreign countries, the protocol will contain a "constructed in country" requirement for competing yachts AND a nationality requirement for competing crew members" None of that is disingenuous. It is only disingenuous if you want them to follow the DoG to the letter. After all the only thing linking the CiC and the Nationality clause to the DoG in the ETNZ statement is the fact that there is no full stop after the competing yachts sentence. If the sentence containing the Nationality clause was a new sentence, the two would no longer be linked. But come on, now you're splitting hairs.

 

~Stingray~~

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I'm with you on 80% Stingray, believe it is going to be quite stringent on the sailors.

It'll be in Auckland, plans for where the bases will go are advancing (ATEED (council owned event company) CEO was in Bermuda for a time)
Yes, the ATEED CEO was there - supposedly using his own cash but probably not; but not using Govt funds either way. Got asked about it somewhere. Is ATEED the budget the recent $5M came from?

It's probably going to take much deeper pockets to pull something off on the AKL waterfront regardless, than whatever that guy has going on.

 

Sailbydate

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Yes, the ATEED CEO was there - supposedly using his own cash but probably not; but not using Govt funds either way. Got asked about it somewhere. Is ATEED the budget the recent $5M came from?

It's probably going to take much deeper pockets to pull something off on the AKL waterfront regardless, than whatever that guy has going on.
No. ATEED is funded by Auckland ratepayers, through ACC. The $5 million came from NZ taxpayers, via central Government.

 

~Stingray~~

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They didn't link it to what the deed is actually about, what they stated was "in recognition of the fundamental condition of the deed of gift that the cup be preserved as a perpetual challenge cup for friendly competition between foreign countries, the protocol will contain a "constructed in country" requirement for competing yachts AND a nationality requirement for competing crew members" None of that is disingenuous. It is only disingenuous if you want them to follow the DoG to the letter. After all the only thing linking the CiC and the Nationality clause to the DoG in the ETNZ statement is the fact that there is no full stop after the competing yachts sentence. If the sentence containing the Nationality clause was a new sentence, the two would no longer be linked. But come on, now you're splitting hairs.
Ok, fair enough argument but most punters won't see it that way, they will (ignorantly) instead assume crew Nationality is linked to the Deed, with it being just barely separated from "constructed in country."

 

NSP

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My guess is they will go 80%, maybe with a lower allowance for 'new' YC/teams/countries - which would surely draw some nasty/interesting legal arguments into things.
I think Dalton said it wouldn't be 80% (in the press conference IIRC.  That leaves us with either something closer to 50% or position-specific requirements.  I'm not sure I like restricting positions, so i hope for the 50% number which gives teams plenty of flexibility. 

EDIT: but I do think some form of real crew nationality is important, especially to rebuild interest here in the US.  I watched a few of the races at my club and the consensus was "What the fuck are those twangs?  This isn't Team America, why are they bearing our flag?" (to be fair, if I were to pick the political leanings of most members I think they'd be pretty red ...).

 
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Forourselves

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Ok, fair enough argument but most punters won't see it that way, they will (ignorantly) instead assume crew Nationality is linked to the Deed, with it being just barely separated from "constructed in country."
No, most punters who care about the deed will know the two aren't linked, and will see the statement for what it is

 

mako23

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Auckland
ive just had a mental Image of RC crying over his breakfast. Everything he was trying to do is being removed. I wonder if he will appear in Auckland with another syndicate. Hes very good at changing his nationality if the price is right.

 
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~Stingray~~

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ive just had a mental of RC crying over his breakfast. Everything he was trying to do is being removed. I wonder if he will appear in Auckland with another syndicate. Hes very good at changing his nationality if the price is right.
While you may relish in that 'crying' fantasy I suspect RC will simply do whatever the heck he wants to, be it involved with AC36, or even other sail racing teams, or not. He can afford to make any choice he wants and absolutely will stay happy. 

 
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Boybland

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While you may relish in that 'crying' fantasy I suspect RC will simply do whatever the heck he wants to, be it involved with AC36, or even other sail racing teams, or not. He can afford to make any choice he wants and will stay happy. 
Actually as always he will do whatever the heck he is paid to do.

 

mako23

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While you may relish in that 'crying' fantasy I suspect RC will simply do whatever the heck he wants to, be it involved with AC36, or even other sail racing teams, or not. He can afford to make any choice he wants and will stay happy. 
Stingray you are most likely to be correct.  You will have to forgive me, like many Kiwis who loved the cup RC betrayl cut deep, hence the real hate.  However no matter how much I hate this [email protected]@t he has the right to come to NZ and be in peace. 

 

~Stingray~~

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Completely understand the hurt from back when, it was RC but also the rest of the Famous 5 that EB lured away.

But unlike many here, I think that RC (with LE's agreement and encouragement of course) has done some very good things in the past two Cups that can't be dismissed  for 'hatred' reasons. 

Almost getting beat in AC34 by a sneak-attack foiler, and then taking that same game to a next level, was open minded and it produced the fastest AC boats in history. That demonstrated big-time vision and it doesn't matter much to me if he was Zimbabwean by birth instead. 

 
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~Stingray~~

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A bit off the wall but fwiw: https://www.mscnewswire.co.nz/component/k2/item/4871-team-nz-link-to-53m-expo-pavilion.html

Emirates’ sponsorship of America’s Cup winners Team New Zealand was cited as part of a case for participation in a Dubai expo that will cost taxpayers $53 million, documents show.

Other factors cited for giving “serious consideration” to committing to Expo 2020 included growing defence and security links with the United Arab Emirates — which Dubai is part of — and the economic value of Emirates’ daily flights to New Zealand.

 

Forourselves

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Completely understand the hurt from back when, it was RC but also the rest of the Famous 5 that EB lured away.

But unlike many here, I think that RC (with LE's agreement and encouragement of course) has done some very good things in the past two Cups that can't be dismissed  for 'hatred' reasons. 

Almost getting beat in AC34 by a sneak-attack foiler, and then taking that same game to a next level, was open minded and it produced the fastest AC boats in history. That demonstrated big-time vision and it doesn't matter much to me if he was Zimbabwean by birth instead. 
I wouldn't credit Russell with any of that. It was pure genius on the part of ETNZ to design and successfully build, test and race a foiling machine. It was revolutionary, and something I think ETNZ is not given enough credit for. It was the Kiwi's who introduced foiling to the Americas Cup, something Oracle tends to take credit for. The one thing we can credit Russell for doing (depending on who you talk to of course) is switching from one hull, to two. The design package which was envisioned was not to foil at all. It was just smart thinking on the part of ETNZ to take advantage of a loophole in the rules to allow the boats to foil. That was not Russells vision or Russells design. Again, Russells vision failed, he touted a Framework Agreement as the way forward, which is now null and void. He stopped free viewing of races, and faces a backlash from thousands of unhappy fans. Again, it was the Kiwi's who took the game to the next level. Not Russell.

 

mako23

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Auckland
To be honest the Cup need wankers like  Russell Coutts

They play the bad men role in Wrestling...he gives people a reason to watch ...even if it to see him lose.

Wrestling has long figured out that " people trash talking each other" brings in the viewers

what we need in the press conferences is people slagging each other,  like they did in Fremantle. It provides entertainment . We don't want it to go to anything like wrestling however a few pointed comments is a good thing. That's what Dennis Conner, Brad Butterworth and Paul Cayard provided. In the old days press conferences were fun. 

jimmy themouth.jpg

Oracles new spokes man calling ETNZ a bunch of FUCKEN CHEATS

 
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