AC36 CLASS RULE

Boybland

Super Anarchist
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Morioka, Japan
Why would they restrict the amount of changes that can take place on the hull?  Is that unusual?  

It seems like that rule is intended to lock a team into their initial design decisions and that is the reason for the "cup is already won" comments.  It is as if they didn't want people to be able to incorporate one teams design ideas into another teams hull.
Because of the open rules about spying this time round, if you didn't have a limit, then someone with an obviously slow first boat would simply build an exact replica of the fatest boat for boat 2, no point trying to evolve what you've got if you can just leap to the head of the class. 

Still 25% of the surface area is actually a pretty huge amount of change when you think about it, theoretically if you leave the top half completely alone, then you can change approximately 50% of the underwater half!

 
Because of the open rules about spying this time round, if you didn't have a limit, then someone with an obviously slow first boat would simply build an exact replica of the fatest boat for boat 2, no point trying to evolve what you've got if you can just leap to the head of the class. 

Still 25% of the surface area is actually a pretty huge amount of change when you think about it, theoretically if you leave the top half completely alone, then you can change approximately 50% of the underwater half!
The momentarily underwater half at that....hopefully.

This would include the cockpit layout right?

 

accnick

Super Anarchist
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Hmm.

It occurred to me that the TNZ 'dolphin belly' consists of about 25% of the hull surface (the max allowed to be replaced) -> potentially if its too tender it should be possible for it to be chainsawed and a more conventional canoe-body to be substituted.

So I started looking at the definition of the 25% & there is a bit of an oddity:

To the Batmobile! Protocol

As seen above 'Original Hull Surface' is redefined by class rule 5.9 as 'hull surface'.

So to the Definitions in the class rule

and this bit

So there's a bit of a hook there:

I had assumed that the 25% surface would be 25% of the hull lower surface area but its actually 25% the whole exterior surface including deck and the surfaces of penetrations that are counted as deck -> the actual modifiable surface area is much larger than might be assumed.

This benefits Maximisation of initial surface area including making as large a surface of the cockpit as possible.

So AM is missing out a bit on modifiable surface area with their lower deck centre & low-profile rounded bow (unless they intend to modify the 2nd boat rather than 1st).

Also if AM also wants to modify the cockpit to be more like TNZ that will count out of their 25%.

There is a problem here also:

Recent class rules specified either a single modification of up to 25% or multiple modifications totalling up to 25%, Protocol and Class Rule do neither so its potentially legal to make multiple 25% changes as long as the same 75% of the Original Hull Surface is maintained which if I recall was a problem with early versions of IACC rule.

The Protocol states that interpretation, calculation & enforcement is sole responsibility of the MC 'whose decision shall be final' -> no appeal to Jury or Arbitration Panel in case of dispute with the MC decision?
Hoom,

You may want to go to the official noticeboard and download the current version of the Protocol. Amendment 2 changed the hull modification limits a long time ago.

 

accnick

Super Anarchist
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Noticeboard is out of date. Current version  of class rule is 1.5. If anyone is friends with one of the teams, get them to post it here or send it to you for posting.

Not sure who is in charge of updating the Noticeboard.

 

NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
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dg_sailingfan said:
The new Boats look pretty unimpressive & ordinary just from my Point of View.
Compared to WHAT?!? An IACC (the last monohull AC class)?  An IMOCA 60?  

 

Rskiff

Member
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43
dg_sailingfan said:
The new Boats look pretty unimpressive & ordinary just from my Point of View.
I actually don't give a shit of your point of view. You have over the years proven to me to be very unstable in mind. You perhaps should seek help as it would be benefical for you in life.

 

hoom

Super Anarchist
6,398
528
Orkland
Current version  of class rule is 1.5.
Wow wat.

Someone definitely slacking on posting them then :angry:

Does it change the area stuff?

Amendment 2 changed the hull modification limits a long time ago.
You're right I haven't kept up with the Protocol changes, thank you for pointing out :)

New version

Protocol 11.1

b) Each Competitor may only modify the exterior shape of each of its hulls as determined
when the respective hull was launched (“Original Hull Surface”) by a maximum of
12.5% of its area (the method for monitoring this restriction will be specified in the
Class Rule);
That still doesn't exactly specify how often 12.5% can be changed.

'by a maximum' could be cumulative area but it doesn't say it explicity.

To me that still enables multiple changes up to 12.5% unless there is further wording in the newer versions of Class Rule.

Also rather than MC its the Rules Committee that has jurisdiction which makes more sense

Protocol 11.1

e) The interpretation, calculation and enforcement of the above limitations on the
modification of the Original Hull Surface ... shall be the sole responsibility of the Rules Committee
whose decision shall be final.
and

21.2. The Rules Committee shall be responsible:
c) with the assistance of the Measurement Committee to determine the extension and
percentage of the modification of the Original Hull Surface of an AC75 Class yacht;

 

Tornado-Cat

Super Anarchist
16,290
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Noticeboard is out of date. Current version  of class rule is 1.5. If anyone is friends with one of the teams, get them to post it here or send it to you for posting.

Not sure who is in charge of updating the Noticeboard.
We could criticize OR but at least they were keeping the versions up to date very seriously.

 

NeedAClew

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We could criticize OR but at least they were keeping the versions up to date very seriously.
Until they deleted everything they could after AC35.  Maybe by accident. Maybe they forgot to patch or update their software, providing impetus to Cloud 2.0 bwahaha.

 

Tornado-Cat

Super Anarchist
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Until they deleted everything they could after AC35.  Maybe by accident. Maybe they forgot to patch or update their software, providing impetus to Cloud 2.0 bwahaha.
I didn't mind after, it's now that we are interested by the rules, not after.

 

NeedAClew

Super Anarchist
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I didn't mind after, it's now that we are interested by the rules, not after.
Yes we are interested in current rules.

But iirc during the inter-Cup lulls people did want some of the AC34/35 stuff. 

I doubt ETNZ would delete AC36 stuff after no matter what, though. They seem like they take custodianship of the legacy seriously.

 

Varan

Super Anarchist
6,533
1,713
  Quote
Protocol 11.1

b) Each Competitor may only modify the exterior shape of each of its hulls as determined
when the respective hull was launched (“Original Hull Surface”) by a maximum of
12.5% of its area (the method for monitoring this restriction will be specified in the
Class Rule);


So,  you are limited in how much you can change a hull, but you can build two completely different hulls, correct? Once launched, the limits apply to each.

 

hoom

Super Anarchist
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528
Orkland
Ooh good spotting I missed that

Was 'can modify one hull by 25%'

Now 'can modify each hull by 12.5%'

Assuming the rule changes kept the 'original surface' defined as both hull and deck, then 12.5% is about what 25% of just the lower hull would have been ie something around the size of the 'dolphin belly'.

@k2mav is best placed to give proper area estimates based on his CAD model rather than Mk1 eyeball.

 
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