AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)

[winchfodder]

Why a DoG challenge? The three possible challengers are as interested as ETNZ to make the AC a money making machine. Something that is even harder to achieve with a DoG challenge.

Difficult one. If there is no Match raced then LR would surely still be the COR and RNZYS would retain the Cup.

Unless RNZYS very quickly offer new dates and class with a new protocol they could possibly be open to a DOG challenge, but with LR still COR I can't see how this might be allowed by the NYSC.

 

[Stingray~]

If there is no Match raced ... 

This scenario gets very problematic for RNZYS, by a careful reading of the DoG...

Could be a fun deep-dive but it’s very unlikely to happen. 

 

[Rennmaus]

I bite. The DoG says:
"And when a challenge from a Club fulfilling all the conditions required by this instrument has been received, no other challenge can be considered until the pending event has been decided."

Question: Has the event been decided? Answer: No (as there is no decision).

So, according to the Deed they have to sail until this challenge is decided. But of course, there's the protocol as well. And this contract could be subject to legal challenges.

Andy other points of view?

 

[winchfodder]

I bite. The DoG says:
"And when a challenge from a Club fulfilling all the conditions required by this instrument has been received, no other challenge can be considered until the pending event has been decided."

Question: Has the event been decided? Answer: No (as there is no decision).

So, according to the Deed they have to sail until this challenge is decided. But of course, there's the protocol as well. And this contract could be subject to legal challenges.

Andy other points of view?

As long as the failure to "decide" the event was not due to actions by either side but from external events like a Covid pandemic, then I guess it would just roll into the planning of a new event. If however it was a deliberate attempt to sabotage by either side then I presume the DOG would take over with first arbitration and then the NY Supreme Court if not resolved. 

 

[winchfodder]

As long as the failure to "decide" the event was not due to actions by either side but from external events like a Covid pandemic, then I guess it would just roll into the planning of a new event. If however it was a deliberate attempt to sabotage by either side then I presume the DOG would take over with first arbitration and then the NY Supreme Court if not resolved. 

Tina for instance could sabotage the Match by refusing to let IM have the umpire and marshall boats supplied by ACE (paid for by Prada!).

 

[Forourselves]

Meh.... totally different boats.  In the foiling era the defenders get their teeth kicked in every time. I don’t suspect this time to be any different.  All about on the water time and confidence.  NZL loses the first few races it can quickly spiral out of control.  Remember there are no second chances for the defender like there are with the challengers, RR Prada semi, Prada final, etc.

There has been only 2 events in the foiling era. The Defender won one, and the Challenger the other, so its 1-1 so far.

As for second chances, that goes for the Challenger as well.

As we saw in 2000, LR doesn't have a great track record against a much faster boat. In fact in the only other event that they contested the Cup, the wheels fell off in the second race of the 2000 event.

 

[Stingray~]

I bite. The DoG says:
"And when a challenge from a Club fulfilling all the conditions required by this instrument has been received, no other challenge can be considered until the pending event has been decided."

Question: Has the event been decided? Answer: No (as there is no decision).

So, according to the Deed they have to sail until this challenge is decided. But of course, there's the protocol as well. And this contract could be subject to legal challenges.

Andy other points of view?

The original Challenge will have had the Match date on it (the MC’d Protocol too) and so if for any reason the Defender failed to Defend that Challenge as beholden to as Trustee, well then what? 

 

[Rennmaus]

The original Challenge will have had the Match date on it (the MC’d Protocol too) and so if for any reason the Defender failed to Defend that Challenge as beholden to as Trustee, well then what? 

I haven't seen the challenge document, so cannot comment on its content.
The protocol is a contract that can be handled in front of a court, indeed. But it has no effect on the trustee obligations. Those are laid down in the Deed, and the Deed does not care about the specifics of the protocol. The Deed just says that the pending challenge needs to be decided before another one can be lodged. It is not specific about the duration of the current challenge.

 

[Stingray~]

Okay, you could be right. Maybe the current Challenge can go ‘forever.’ 
 

Hopefully we don’t see it go any deeper. 

 

[Rennmaus]

Okay, you could be right. Maybe the current Challenge can go ‘forever.’ 
 

Hopefully we don’t see it go any deeper. 

Perpetual... ahem... 

 

[Stingray~]

Perpetual... ahem... 

 

 

[Jethrow]

Anyone know if the Americas cup match with be 2 races a day? I saw it was first to 7 wins...

 

[JJD]

Perpetual... ahem... 

The protocol clearly states if the match is not decided by 21st March, the racing continues on a daily basis until the match is decided. 
 

so not that complex. 

 

[Rennmaus]

The protocol clearly states if the match is not decided by 21st March, the racing continues on a daily basis until the match is decided. 
 

so not that complex. 

That's the way I read it too. 

 

[winchfodder]

As long as the failure to "decide" the event was not due to actions by either side but from external events like a Covid pandemic, then I guess it would just roll into the planning of a new event. If however it was a deliberate attempt to sabotage by either side then I presume the DOG would take over with first arbitration and then the NY Supreme Court if not resolved. 

Tina for instance could sabotage the Match by refusing to let IM have the umpire and marshall boats supplied by ACE (paid for by Prada!).

 

[winchfodder]

Not sure which Match thread we are following. I see sailby has added a new one.

Shall we all agree which one we are following and close the other to avoid confusion and duplication. 

And whilst we are here for the moment do we think the frackers will be helping LR or ETNZ in lead up to March 6th?

 

[Priscilla]

Not sure which Match thread we are following. I see sailby has added a new one.

Shall we all agree which one we are following and close the other to avoid confusion and duplication. 

And whilst we are here for the moment do we think the frackers will be helping LR or ETNZ in lead up to March 6th?

Got a couple of weeks to sort the thread issue out Basher Ben was pretty adamant that the Handbags are on their own slapping away Max's offer to come play. 

 

[winchfodder]

Got a couple of weeks to sort the thread issue out Basher Ben was pretty adamant that the Handbags are on their own slapping away Max's offer to come play. 

Not very AC PC for the early eliminated challenger not helping the challenger through to the Match. I guess AM are all packed up so no use to LR either. 

Also not very fair that ETNZ were on the race course today doing laps before and after the Prada Cup racing.

They now have all the data to compare with LR data in the same wind, wave and tide conditions. Their data is not available to LR. I guess that is the privilege and benefit of being the Cup holder. 

 

[southseasbill]

The original Challenge will have had the Match date on it (the MC’d Protocol too) and so if for any reason the Defender failed to Defend that Challenge as beholden to as Trustee, well then what? 

The law in most places recognises the concept of force majeure. Don't know about NY.

 

[mako23]

Got a couple of weeks to sort the thread issue out Basher Ben was pretty adamant that the Handbags are on their own slapping away Max's offer to come play. 

Ben clearly doesn’t like the handbags....might be due to LR using every legal trick in the book.