southseasbill
Super Anarchist
- 1,934
- 190
AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)
- Thread starter winchfodder
- Start date
Thewas
Member
- 258
- 169
Hope this effort to dig LR helms mood deep will bring her some benefit.
Man, I thought next (pointless) question would have been: "Jimmy and Checco, how does it feel to be slower and sad and ugly?".
Maybe next time bring them a pic of that favourite puppy that tragically died when they were kids.
Is she still upset for the Sir Ben sweeping?
dogwatch
Super Anarchist
Of tangential relevance but perhaps amusing to those who remember her, Marian Martin, without a by-your-leave, once lifted one of my better-written posts verbatim and passed it off as hers in her newsletter. I was then vehemently accused on SAAC by multiple people of passing off her content as my own. After a while, she reluctantly fessed up.
I still miss her.
oatsandbeans
Member
- 96
- 17
I agree 100% Mozzy your videos are great, really interesting technically, but also very well presented and you even manage to get a bit of humour (oh and the odd dodgy jumper), keep it up 98% of us think you are terrific!
Paddywackery
Super Anarchist
Don't worry Thewas, if the battle of the foils had been won by LRPP then she would have asked Pete Burling why he lost both starts, why is the boat not faster, how are you coping with the pressure and the weight of the nation, and many other such questions. She is very fair minded and you could hear the empathy in her voice when speaking to Jimmy and Checo. She also knows that Jimmy is as tough as an old boot in these circumstances and Checo admitted his disappointment.
I had hoped that we not have a race decided by falling off the foils, the fact that both boats did and one managed the circumstances better makes the defeat harder.
Hang tight, your team are doing Italy and the competition proud.
loneshark64
Super Anarchist
Agree. And I would like to say that 90% of what I typed on here yesterday was wrong. This was fun to watch. I still don’t love these boats and style of racing, but it was a good and dramatic day of sailboat racing. AC36 has become like marriage though, where the next day I think “why the hell did I say that yesterday?”
That was a heck of a couple of races, not sure I'm entirely recovered yet.
TNZ got to really show their speed edge, TNZ did some mistakes, LR did some too, TNZ got more lucky & pulled some fairly subtle but effective match racing moves.
Surprised to see nobody comment on PBs silly Race 7 starting luff.
It made Jimmys Race 1 luff look reasoned & deserving, TNZ were too slow & too far to leeward for that.
But then a combo of good match-racing, a bit of surviving in/just out of the gas & a bit of luck generated the split which with the help of a couple of lifts gave TNZ the lead, then a good couple of short tacks to cement it, a lot of people would have built when LR did their short downspeed tack back to boundary but PB followed & forced LR to eat dirty air.
From there they were able to really stretch their legs for the win.
As I said before its been LRs impeccable covering/leebows that have kept them in front.
We've seen flashes of TNZ catching when they got some clear air but previously LR has been able to re-establish cover/leebow, not this time.
But that race should have been abandoned.
Precedent was set (I think in AM v Basher Semi) when a race was abandoned because the wind shifted to nearly a lay & the Committee blew it up, I believe by that standard they should have this time also.
That Race 8 gybe, someone mentioned it was reminicent of one of the SF ones and yes, I thought it seemed a bit familiar :wacko:
LR had got soft on the starboard lay & had to make a low-speed tack with short build before the mark.
TNZ was a bit tight on the lay but accelerated better round the mark into a clean gybe & PB found a nice soak on the boundary.
At the point of the gybe both boats were going nearly right across the course but LR had just got up to 29kt & TNZ would probably not have rolled them, TNZ advantage is when they can sail in clear air so can understand the gybe but oof when I saw them turning down it didn't look good.
TNZ got lucky that they were able to get going with only a couple of back & forths and then that LR dropped at the top mark where it was soft.
I think Jimmys call to go for the top mark in displacement was not the best, the wing cats could pull that off but not the JC75s.
FB was pretty unconvinced about it but didn't argue the point.
Really incredible seeing one boat doing up to 4* windspeed while the other can be struggling along in the mid single-digits only a few meters away.
Doing 14kt in 7 true is understandable to my non-foiling brain but 28-30 seems almost obscene :blink:
TNZ got to really show their speed edge, TNZ did some mistakes, LR did some too, TNZ got more lucky & pulled some fairly subtle but effective match racing moves.
Surprised to see nobody comment on PBs silly Race 7 starting luff.
It made Jimmys Race 1 luff look reasoned & deserving, TNZ were too slow & too far to leeward for that.
But then a combo of good match-racing, a bit of surviving in/just out of the gas & a bit of luck generated the split which with the help of a couple of lifts gave TNZ the lead, then a good couple of short tacks to cement it, a lot of people would have built when LR did their short downspeed tack back to boundary but PB followed & forced LR to eat dirty air.
From there they were able to really stretch their legs for the win.
As I said before its been LRs impeccable covering/leebows that have kept them in front.
We've seen flashes of TNZ catching when they got some clear air but previously LR has been able to re-establish cover/leebow, not this time.
But that race should have been abandoned.
Precedent was set (I think in AM v Basher Semi) when a race was abandoned because the wind shifted to nearly a lay & the Committee blew it up, I believe by that standard they should have this time also.
That Race 8 gybe, someone mentioned it was reminicent of one of the SF ones and yes, I thought it seemed a bit familiar :wacko:
LR had got soft on the starboard lay & had to make a low-speed tack with short build before the mark.
TNZ was a bit tight on the lay but accelerated better round the mark into a clean gybe & PB found a nice soak on the boundary.
At the point of the gybe both boats were going nearly right across the course but LR had just got up to 29kt & TNZ would probably not have rolled them, TNZ advantage is when they can sail in clear air so can understand the gybe but oof when I saw them turning down it didn't look good.
TNZ got lucky that they were able to get going with only a couple of back & forths and then that LR dropped at the top mark where it was soft.
I think Jimmys call to go for the top mark in displacement was not the best, the wing cats could pull that off but not the JC75s.
FB was pretty unconvinced about it but didn't argue the point.
Really incredible seeing one boat doing up to 4* windspeed while the other can be struggling along in the mid single-digits only a few meters away.
Doing 14kt in 7 true is understandable to my non-foiling brain but 28-30 seems almost obscene :blink:
Tropical Madness
Super Anarchist
this is the nail biting stuff we've waited to see. We'd all complain it was too boring if one team dominated every race start to finish.
Light again tomorrow so my next question is will we see Jimmy in 2025... he did put up a fight so it helped the odds on the TAB here go up to 1.52 so i quickly grabbed those on Sat night. Thanks Timmy.
Light again tomorrow so my next question is will we see Jimmy in 2025... he did put up a fight so it helped the odds on the TAB here go up to 1.52 so i quickly grabbed those on Sat night. Thanks Timmy.
danstanford
Anarchist
Why do the teams not leave both foils in the water on marginal wind speed tacks to stay on the foils, is there too much drag? Clearly to my eye both teams splashed at the moment they lifted the windward foil.
Clearly they can sail that way if you watch the pinching slow modes at the start line.
Clearly they can sail that way if you watch the pinching slow modes at the start line.
The Advocate
Super Anarchist
Because they already said enough about Jimmy's and don't want to prove they're dicks. Those of us that thought Jimmy's was worth a shot, can't be bothered.
The Advocate
Super Anarchist
strider470
Super Anarchist
Jean-Baptiste
Member
AnotherSailor
Super Anarchist
So, after all this talk about Formula 1 style boat racing folks were ready for some serious porn for the speed addict. Instead they took turns in their inability to perform because they couldn't get it up...
In all seriousness, this is so fucking funny! It reminded me of the Monty Python soccer match. I don't even want to know how much money they spent on a boat that is reaching back and forth between (and beyond) the boundaries of the course because it can't gain enough speed to go downwind... I mean, think about it. The only thing that would have made it even more hilarious would have involved ETNZ falling off the rails once again and both had to wait until one of them picked up again. This was the most entertaining race so far (from what I have seen of it) but all for the wrong reasons. Still, I have been laughing my ass off.
In all seriousness, this is so fucking funny! It reminded me of the Monty Python soccer match. I don't even want to know how much money they spent on a boat that is reaching back and forth between (and beyond) the boundaries of the course because it can't gain enough speed to go downwind... I mean, think about it. The only thing that would have made it even more hilarious would have involved ETNZ falling off the rails once again and both had to wait until one of them picked up again. This was the most entertaining race so far (from what I have seen of it) but all for the wrong reasons. Still, I have been laughing my ass off.
That's a good question. I think the start pinching is totally different. Then they have enough power and want to go as slow or as high they can. So they like the extra drag and less leeway the windward foil brings.
When on the edge of foiling all the extra drag is very bad. It may help to have more area from the other foil, but probably it can't be loaded much after the tack is completed. You need to generate rating moment also and thus have much higher load on leeward foil.
If you add load to the windward foil you also need to add to leeward foil. Once you foil the sum is naturally equal to weight of the boat.
So I think having two foils helps keeping up on foils only when you are not loading sails or when you don't generate enough righting moment to load the leeward foil enough. Even then you must consider the extra drag, but it is impossible to tack or jibe with just one foil.
It seems to be the critical moment when the windward foil is lifted. It has vertical speed through water and could easily generate negative lift. Also it has ballast that is lifted up, which pushes the hull down. So you need more lift and more heeling moment to compensate the movement of the foil than you do when the foil is up. Teams have clearly slowed down the lifting of the foil.
Blitzkrieg9
Member
- 220
- 62
Quite simply remove rule 16.1. The ROW boat should have the ROW to sail where they please. The GW boat should have the onus of keeping clear.
Remember, back in 2017 there were specific rules that ALLOWED for hunting!!! It was written into the rules that you were allowed to bear away upto 90° off true wind for the sole purpose of engaging your opponent. Hunting and forcing penalties was encouraged.
Now, the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. Now you can't hunt. Okay. But, also as the ROW vessel you can't even sail your proper course sometimes! Its not right.
Wait until you see a dinghy race! You wouldn't believe it, those things actually fall over, sometimes the crew even have to swim to get back to the boat. Even more incredible, sometimes *all* the boats in the race fall over, and the winner is the boat that fell over least often. Hilarious!
sfigone
Anarchist
That "can't get enough speed" boat was getting BSP of twice the wind speed in displacement mode. I'm pretty sure it could have taken that speed down wind and still beaten a lot of displacement boats flying spinnakers.
