AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)

[45Roller]

Listen to the crowd 

 

[marlowe]

1 minute ago, 45Roller said:

Listen to the crowd 

Brilliant! It must have been a great moment to be on North Head.

 

[TheDragon]

And the forecast for today, or are all kiwis still sleeping?

 

[Guest]

Another beautiful day

 

[EYESAILOR]

They’re a very good team. 
 

Jimmy’s turned me this time around. I e really enjoyed watching him lead and represent that team. 

I sympathize with all Kiwis and the feelings engendered by what happened in SF in 2013.

It is natural to feel some antipathy towards Jimmy as a result of that come back.  From here it was one of the greatest comebacks in sport of all time, alongside the Red Sox in 2004 (I was at 3rd base at the final game in 2004) .  My heart goes out to all kiwis for that event, even tho it was incredibly exciting to watch as an American.   I was kind of pleased for the Kiwis in 2017.....it was truly well deserved...and so will this defense be well deserved.

However 2013 and 2021 have Jimmy in common and it is incredible to watch his indomitable determination to fight to the very last second .....and kind of admirable. He finds the words to never ever give up , and in 2013 he got everyone to believe that a comeback was possible.  He is a true pugilist in the sailing ring. The years have made him more tactful and I think he has always respected his competition.  He has a very interesting personality. I can see why the Italians hired him. He enabled them to believe in themselves.  In true Italian style, there is clearly a great deal of affection for Jimmy. I think he could walk down the streets of Naples and get offered free Pizza. 

 

[aucklander]

They’re a very good team. 
 

Jimmy’s turned me this time around. I e really enjoyed watching him lead and represent that team. 

Completely agree. As a sailing team LRPP are very easy to like: Jimmy has been an absolute model competitor and his love of the contest and battle  shines through. They are worthy contenders. 

 

[EYESAILOR]

Completely agree. As a sailing team LRPP are very easy to like: Jimmy has been an absolute model competitor and his love of the contest and battle  shines through. They are worthy contenders. 

Would it not be fantastic to see an Aussie team, led by Jimmy and including Nathan?  Unlikely I agree.

Although I would also like to see Jimmy sty with LR and bring them back next time.

 

[nav]

What do you think of the newly displayed 'air wakes'. I like 'em, but two things....

Are they more or less in the right place?

Does RC get another cheque?

 

[dg_sailingfan]

TVNZ sort of confirmed that the AC75 will be kept if ETNZ with this Final Race tonight and @Barnybis right: National Requirement will be tightened up.

All this shopping around by Dean Barker or Jimmy Spithill for a new Job is ridiculous. Finally we have more "Home Grown Talent" on the Boats as it should be.

My guess the first sign up by the Brits will be NYYC/American Magic Main Trimmer Paul Goodison.

 

[Priscilla]

And the forecast for today, or are all kiwis still sleeping?

Southerly 10 knots, easing to variable 5 knots late morning. Northeast 10 knots developing for a time late afternoon and early evening. Sea slight. Cloudy periods. Isolated afternoon showers.

Course choice will be either A or E.

 

[cbulger]

Time to admit it - this is a sailors cup.

There is no such thing as a faster boat in the AC75's.  These boats dont budge without incredible sailing skill at 5-6 positions.  I doubt that LR team could even get around the the course in the Kiwi machine - as world class foilers, Glenn, Peter and Blair might be able to sail the less demanding Luna Rossa, but it wouldn't be pretty.

You cant separate the design from the technique or techniques being used by the teams unlike traditional keel boats where everyone is essentially riding the boat 80% of the time

 

[pusslicker]

Perhaps they are good sportsmen that realize their opponents design and sailing skills?

Kiwi's are still damaged from '13. They will never see Jimmy as anything, but the caricature they paint here everyday.

 

[TheDragon]

Southerly 10 knots, easing to variable 5 knots late morning. Northeast 10 knots developing for a time late afternoon and early evening. Sea slight. Cloudy periods. Isolated afternoon showers.

Course choice will be either A or E.

Thanks, but that sucks. I hate the idea of this cup being over before we see these incredible machines raced in anger in 20 knots. But I well recall when the Kiwis won in Bermuda and announced the timing of this defense, that the discussion was the need to design a boat that would perform best in 10-12 knots. And doing 45 knots in 12 is pretty amazing too, although we did it a couple weeks ago on ice!

 

[Guest]

Kiwi's are still damaged from '13. They will never see Jimmy as anything, but the caricature they paint here everyday.

Not by me, but then again I’m anti establishment. Also I hate our media’s dumb peddling of the “kiwi” culture that comes out in words like “gutted” and other blokey terms 

 

[Grrr...]

I totally disagree. If Luna Rossa won 3 races so far, and almost other 2 that instead they lost by a hair, it was exactly for their good match racing tactics, strategy and good starts. Or do you think they did it because they have a faster boat? Or were they lucky by any means?
If today the score were 5 - 4 instead of 3 - 6 for LR because of those two races, nobody could say that the score was not deserved. But they did one error in rounding the mark in a race (ETNZ did the very same error of falling off the foils but they were in the middle of the race course where it was more windy and could recover in half the time, we are talking of minutes), and a single wrong call in the other and we are here 3 - 6.

In the last race for instance they made only one error if you want to call that so. It was more a choice, that in the end went wrong. ETNZ has been totally passive for a good part of the race and in particular in the key moment: they went to the right only because LR chose to put them there because Bruni saw less wind in that direction. Would you say that this was a smart decision from Peter Burling? They took what they were forced to take, and it was good. With these boats, finding pressure plays a huge part in gaining or losing, especially if you are not on the faster boat. That's something you can easily see on the virtual eye, but the crews can only guess information watching the water and using their instinct while sailing at a crazy speed.

Considering the speed advantage of TR, the  Kiwi crew is actually tactically under performing, while on the boat handling part they are really showing a fantastic performance.

I paid a lot of attention to the race last night.  And you know what?  That downwind Kiwi speed frankly didn't show up.  They passed based on wind and shifts.  Upwind?  The boats are pretty well matched.

A speed difference should be evident most of the time if there is one.  But in heavier air where you'd expect the Kiwis to walk away, they didn't do it yesterday.  Both upwind and downwind, LR pretty much matched them.  I suspect the true speed advantage is much smaller than many people think it is.

Watch the VMG's.  Regardless of the boat speed, the VMG's are usually similar unless there is a marked difference in wind direction or strength.

 

[nav]

Don't think ETNZ was given enough credit for surviving the attack at the bottom mark when they got sailed off the course. That threw any pre-planning straight out the window but they pulled off one extemporaneous manoeuvre after another to get back on course, through the marks, round up and then off on the new tack. All those looked on to be on the ragged edge of control, but they managed it (no holes!), not sure we've seen a sequence like that under pressure in the regatta before....

 

[Kate short for Bob]

I totally disagree. If Luna Rossa won 3 races so far, and almost other 2 that instead they lost by a hair, it was exactly for their good match racing tactics, strategy and good starts. Or do you think they did it because they have a faster boat? Or were they lucky by any means?
If today the score were 5 - 4 instead of 3 - 6 for LR because of those two races, nobody could say that the score was not deserved. But they did one error in rounding the mark in a race (ETNZ did the very same error of falling off the foils but they were in the middle of the race course where it was more windy and could recover in half the time, we are talking of minutes), and a single wrong call in the other and we are here 3 - 6.

In the last race for instance they made only one error if you want to call that so. It was more a choice, that in the end went wrong. ETNZ has been totally passive for a good part of the race and in particular in the key moment: they went to the right only because LR chose to put them there because Bruni saw less wind in that direction. Would you say that this was a smart decision from Peter Burling? They took what they were forced to take, and it was good. With these boats, finding pressure plays a huge part in gaining or losing, especially if you are not on the faster boat. That's something you can easily see on the virtual eye, but the crews can only guess information watching the water and using their instinct while sailing at a crazy speed.

Considering the speed advantage of TR, the  Kiwi crew is actually tactically under performing, while on the boat handling part they are really showing a fantastic performance.

That is a really good spin on the facts.  But a number of flaws in your analysis.

But they did one error in rounding the mark in a race (ETNZ did the very same error of falling off the foils but they were in the middle of the race course where it was more windy and could recover in half the time, we are talking of minutes), and a single wrong call in the other and we are here 3 - 6.

You are placing too much emphasis on the outcome rather than the cause.  LR falling off the foils was an unforced error.  They had a four minute 2km lead, knew they were heading into light winds and failed to keep their boat foiling.  They had heaps of time and distance to use to make sure they didn't fall off the foils.  Compare that to ETNZ's approach when they reached the same zone - compare the lower angles they sailed.

ETNZ's fall from the foils was the outcome of a regulation match racing manoeuvre while behind - a move that most good match racers would have done but they miscalculated the affect of the wind carve up by LR and themselves.  The hole in the wind was created by the boats not by the environment.

In the last race for instance they made only one error if you want to call that so. It was more a choice, that in the end went wrong. ETNZ has been totally passive for a good part of the race and in particular in the key moment: they went to the right only because LR chose to put them there because Bruni saw less wind in that direction. Would you say that this was a smart decision from Peter Burling? They took what they were forced to take, and it was good. With these boats, finding pressure plays a huge part in gaining or losing, especially if you are not on the faster boat. That's something you can easily see on the virtual eye, but the crews can only guess information watching the water and using their instinct while sailing at a crazy speed.

I have no idea what race your were watching or onboard comms you were listening to but that isn't what I saw or heard.  ETNZ were far from "totally passive" - they kept the pressure on LR the whole way.  Yes with the advantage of a faster boat.  Their course management was great and they created as many opportunities as they could particularly to nail the right.

I'm not sure what TV feed you were watching but Bruni called that there was a hole on the right.  Spithall said protect the right - he didn't want to go left.  They went left.  Onboard ETNZ the comms were saying stay here there is pressure coming.  They weren't forced to go there but LR opened the gate for them when they could have closed it,

It was Bruni's call and he got it way wrong.  That aside Bruni also didn't cover when they were in front.  That is TWO big errors not one.  That is the problem with two helmsmen and when the pressure has gone on cracks have emerged.  Spithall's body language and voice tone shows it all.  He isn't happy with the decisions being made.

All that aside ETNZ have a faster boat.  

 

[WakaNZ]

Southerly 10 knots, easing to variable 5 knots late morning. Northeast 10 knots developing for a time late afternoon and early evening. Sea slight. Cloudy periods. Isolated afternoon showers.

Course choice will be either A or E.

More of this stress and I’ll need A&E

 

[Joakim]

That downwind Kiwi speed frankly didn't show up.  They passed based on wind and shifts.  Upwind?  The boats are pretty well matched.

They have clearly changed the boat to be faster upwind (or LR have downwind). Last days the bigger difference has been upwind and that has allowed TR to bounce back when LR hit them and pass when they get a slightest chance.

It's not several knots, but probably 200 m on a beat, which turns to 1 km when TR wins the start.

Look how fast TR came back, when LR forced them to a bad leeward rounding and got a 200 m lead. And look how fast they spread the distance when they managed to pass.

Also the start was even and TR manage to get 20 m lead before the boundary. That was almost enough to roll LR at their leebow.

 

[Kate short for Bob]

A speed difference should be evident most of the time if there is one.  But in heavier air where you'd expect the Kiwis to walk away, they didn't do it yesterday.  Both upwind and downwind, LR pretty much matched them.  I suspect the true speed advantage is much smaller than many people think it is.

You are not accounting for the match racing aspect.  LR have to fight hard to keep ETNZ behind them.  Suggest you do an analysis on how long ETNZ can sail in an unfavourable position and increase gauge compared to LR.  With the width of the course and the speed of the boats you don't get the same opportunity to use your speed to advantage.  At some stage you run out of room and have to tack into favourable or unfavourable air.