AC36: The Match (6-15th March. Reserve days to the 21st)

Why can't it be done each morning of racing? 

To have three foil packages and then to have to gamble on one at the start of a regatta seems backward. You want the best setup for the conditions and this just points to either going conservative or picking an option and hoping you get lucky with the weather. Neither of these is good for racing outcome, and by delaying the start of the regatta but not the mesaurement the chances of this have increased.

 You wouldn't see F1 cars racing in the rain with their slick tyres.
Because you don't see Sydney to Hobart boats picking which keel and measurement certificate to use the day before depending on the forecast (trust me some of them do have multiple).    Currently any well prepared campaign has the possibility to win major events, but if the precedent is set of picking major components of the boat depending of the forecast, then only campaigns with huge budgets will win.   If you can swap foils, then why not keels or even hulls?  Perhaps WOXI could have a fat arsed Comanche-like hull sitting in the shed, ready to swap in if the forecast is suitable.

If our sport goes this way, then we will soon get into endless Ship of Theseus debates... hmmm perhaps better than debating if staying isolated from people who may be infected with a virus is or isn't an effective way to avoid catching the virus??? DUH!

 

LB 15.1

Member
326
55
Sanxenxo
Because you don't see Sydney to Hobart boats picking which keel and measurement certificate to use the day before depending on the forecast (trust me some of them do have multiple).    Currently any well prepared campaign has the possibility to win major events, but if the precedent is set of picking major components of the boat depending of the forecast, then only campaigns with huge budgets will win.   If you can swap foils, then why not keels or even hulls?  Perhaps WOXI could have a fat arsed Comanche-like hull sitting in the shed, ready to swap in if the forecast is suitable.

If our sport goes this way, then we will soon get into endless Ship of Theseus debates... hmmm perhaps better than debating if staying isolated from people who may be infected with a virus is or isn't an effective way to avoid catching the virus??? DUH!
Well said ..   Yachting has backed itself into the corner where $$$ wins ahead of talent.

Allowing boats to be reconfigured daily brings in to many variables and clouds the true result.

The winner could be the worst team with the best " kit change" on the day.

That why the best sailors sail OD and give the AC a wide berth ....

Dalton promised a cheaper more accessible AC and delivered the complete opposite.

 

JJD

Anarchist
894
220
Well said ..   Yachting has backed itself into the corner where $$$ wins ahead of talent.

Allowing boats to be reconfigured daily brings in to many variables and clouds the true result.

The winner could be the worst team with the best " kit change" on the day.

That why the best sailors sail OD and give the AC a wide berth ....

Dalton promised a cheaper more accessible AC and delivered the complete opposite.
You argue for, and then you argue against.  

 

winchfodder

Super Anarchist
1,833
348
Carolina, USA
LSD have taken our points on board and have now modified their editorial to align themselves with our view!

"If, due to wind or virus, in the unlikely scenario, neither team has reached 7 wins by the end of racing on March 21, then it keeps going. This is different to the Prada Cup, which had a final scheduled day. There is also no tie-breaker in the America’s Cup Match!"


You’re welcome LSD. 
Just need Magnus to be enlightened now! 

Come on Magnus, keep up with the programme. 

"The hard stop is the 21st March and the Italians have been clear about sticking to the schedule so the boat leading after the 21st March wins the Cup. That’s it. Winner declared. The Auld Mug either stays in the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron or trips off to the Circolo della Vela in Sicily."

https://rule69blog.wordpress.com/2021/03/02/finezza/

 

shebeen

Super Anarchist
Because you don't see Sydney to Hobart boats picking which keel and measurement certificate to use the day before depending on the forecast (trust me some of them do have multiple).    Currently any well prepared campaign has the possibility to win major events, but if the precedent is set of picking major components of the boat depending of the forecast, then only campaigns with huge budgets will win.   If you can swap foils, then why not keels or even hulls?  Perhaps WOXI could have a fat arsed Comanche-like hull sitting in the shed, ready to swap in if the forecast is suitable.

If our sport goes this way, then we will soon get into endless Ship of Theseus debates... hmmm perhaps better than debating if staying isolated from people who may be infected with a virus is or isn't an effective way to avoid catching the virus??? DUH!
ok we're talking of extremes here. Maybe i should have broken it down, and let's just talk foils.

. in Bermuda there were two sets of foils IIRC. so you could have a competitive boat across wind ranges. i don't see why you can change sails but not select from your set of 3 foils. surely it is harder (and more expensive) to modify the chosen foil set than swap it out.

Here's my hypothetical scenario...we end up with some light wind and prada sweeps it and there's nothing ETNZ can do with their tiny foils.

that's hardly an exciting proposition for the neutral fans.

(and the example with the sydney to hobart is great, but obviously that's a handicap race and the AC is a development class. not exactly the same thing.)

 
ok we're talking of extremes here. Maybe i should have broken it down, and let's just talk foils
But I don't think it is extremes.  Once you allow multiple measurement certificates either for class compliance or for handicapping, then you are immediately into Ship of Theseus territory with budget being the only limit to what you can exchange.   I know there were definitely Farr 40 campaigns with multiple hulls, which were mostly selected for by geographic location... but if the measurement certificate can be changed on a daily basis during a regatta, then why not pick which hull is best for the day. 

So unless foils are handled like a sail ie the whole wardrobe is considered in the certificate, then they shouldn't be swappable.   But I guess it is feasible to have a single measurement that includes all the foil wardrobe.  

 

The Advocate

Super Anarchist
 I know there were definitely Farr 40 campaigns with multiple hulls, which were mostly selected for by geographic location... but if the measurement certificate can be changed on a daily basis during a regatta, then why not pick which hull is best for the day. 
WTF

So unless foils are handled like a sail ie the whole wardrobe is considered in the certificate, then they shouldn't be swappable.   But I guess it is feasible to have a single measurement that includes all the foil wardrobe.  
I think they should be allowed to do exactly that, with limits. Say 3 to 5 sets they can choose from between races, not between days. Make action between the races.

 

DayTripper

Anarchist
632
57
Te Ika a Maui
My location is a Lat/Long.

My sincere apologies, I will type slower for you next time so you can better understand I am referencing the Australian experience. I didn't specifically say I live in Australia, but given I said I work here, I kinda thought living here might be obvious too.

You do know that COVID is not just an NZ thing, right?
Oh. Where did you say you worked in Aus? I missed that bit.

 

MaxHugen

Super Anarchist
Because you don't see Sydney to Hobart boats picking which keel and measurement certificate to use the day before depending on the forecast (trust me some of them do have multiple).    Currently any well prepared campaign has the possibility to win major events, but if the precedent is set of picking major components of the boat depending of the forecast, then only campaigns with huge budgets will win.   If you can swap foils, then why not keels or even hulls?  Perhaps WOXI could have a fat arsed Comanche-like hull sitting in the shed, ready to swap in if the forecast is suitable.

If our sport goes this way, then we will soon get into endless Ship of Theseus debates... hmmm perhaps better than debating if staying isolated from people who may be infected with a virus is or isn't an effective way to avoid catching the virus??? DUH!
Do you have something against aircraft carriers?  :D

 

shebeen

Super Anarchist
But I don't think it is extremes.  Once you allow multiple measurement certificates either for class compliance or for handicapping, then you are immediately into Ship of Theseus territory with budget being the only limit to what you can exchange.   I know there were definitely Farr 40 campaigns with multiple hulls, which were mostly selected for by geographic location... but if the measurement certificate can be changed on a daily basis during a regatta, then why not pick which hull is best for the day. 

So unless foils are handled like a sail ie the whole wardrobe is considered in the certificate, then they shouldn't be swappable.   But I guess it is feasible to have a single measurement that includes all the foil wardrobe.  
in Bermuda AC35 teams had two sets of foils/daggerboards - in general a light wind and heavy wind option. the crossover where you moved to the smaller one was obviously different for each team. i don't think this changed the measurement certificate, although obviously the light wind set was larger/heavier.

I know here in AC36 the foils have got a lot more going into it, but surely it would be possible to swap out overnight - i might have this bit totally wrong.

 

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