AC40

[smackdaddy]

Yes but a lot more sophisticated since they are telling the AP what attitude and pitch to do, changing those directives real-time. If they mess up, they will for sure nosedive!

Well that totally depends on the tolerances. If the video you're talking about is with that BobbyK dude - he talks about the helmsmen “setting the targets” for the flight AP. And he says “taking the foil flap and rudder rake out of it still leaves plenty to do…”. That’s pretty passive control for a foiler. And then you have two of these helmsmen?!?!! Then the other 2 crew are just setting the automated sail controls? Sorry - that’s simply not “full on” in any sense of the word. It‘s no longer sailing - it’s just programming a machine. But I get it. These things are death traps. So you have to do something to appear responsible.

Look, as I’ve said from the beginning, this is simply a ridiculous boat design. There‘s just no way around it. Sure it’s interesting to watch, but in the same funny/sad/dangerous way as this…

 

[Stingray~]

If the video you're talking about is with that BobbyK dude

That is the one I was pointing to, yes. My take on it is a little different from yours, it could be a great boat for the (yes, limited WAC and YAC) purpose.

More importantly am hoping we will see some AC40's used for foil, sails and rig development purposes but the LEQ12's may be the more interesting platforms, guess we will see.

 

[Curious2]

Pete Burtling is 31 so would have been sailing the AC50 at 25. James Spithill was 21 when he first sailed in the Amercia's Cup (well LV Cup) in 2000. Admittedly the IACC boats were not fast, but still, high load and high pressure. There would be thousands of kids sailing high performance foiling boats that could sail circles around most people on this forum.

If there is an age limit, it should be focused around the upper age limit and specifically related to Crash Bash Ben Ainsely. He seems to lack the reaction speed to handle fast boats safely.

"Thousands of kids sailing high performance foiling boats"??? With respect, there's no evidence at all of that. Despite all the hype, the number of kids racing foiling boats seems to be tiny. Looking at the Moth and Waszp fleets, there's probably only about 1300-1500 under 23s sailing foiling boats around the entire world. The Nacra 17 is a joke as far as numbers go, with only 15 being sold a year and not a single nation with more than 8 active boats and the A Class foilers don't seem to get more than 5 youth to a world, so there's few youth sailing foiling cats.

So after years of huge promotion, there's probably fewer young people sailing foiling boats than there are sailing C420s, for example. That seems to say a lot.

As far as age and skill goes, at the Perth Moth worlds (to use the last one that shows age categories) there were just 12 Under 23s. The top U23 in 2019 was well beaten by 49 year old Francesco Bruni, who was 5th overall. Bruni is older than Ainslie so why assume that kids are better than old guys at sailing foilers, when the opposite appears to be true?

 

[Swanno]

"Thousands of kids sailing high performance foiling boats"??? With respect, there's no evidence at all of that. Despite all the hype, the number of kids racing foiling boats seems to be tiny. Looking at the Moth and Waszp fleets, there's probably only about 1300-1500 under 23s sailing foiling boats around the entire world. The Nacra 17 is a joke as far as numbers go, with only 15 being sold a year and not a single nation with more than 8 active boats and the A Class foilers don't seem to get more than 5 youth to a world, so there's few youth sailing foiling cats.

So after years of huge promotion, there's probably fewer young people sailing foiling boats than there are sailing C420s, for example. That seems to say a lot.

As far as age and skill goes, at the Perth Moth worlds (to use the last one that shows age categories) there were just 12 Under 23s. The top U23 in 2019 was well beaten by 49 year old Francesco Bruni, who was 5th overall. Bruni is older than Ainslie so why assume that kids are better than old guys at sailing foilers, when the opposite appears to be true?

So you suggest that the Perth Moth worlds are a true and accurate representation for youth participation in foiling classes globally? I wouldn't have thought so.

I would suggest that the 420's would have higher participation from kids because they are cheap as chips and parts are cheap and plentiful. I even sailed one but took too much big boat knowledge to it and never did well.

The Wazsp specifically has boats designed for kids to get a pathway into foiling...well specifically they have two boats with ages ranging from 11 to 17 targeted. That is one class.

The development classes like Moths have an uncanny knack of pushing away youth participation by making them financially unachievable....which drives people to go back to 1959 tech on the 420...but there would still be plenty of under 25's sailing around the world in that class alone.

Burtling beat the combined power of knowledge of Bruni and Spithill in the AC.

If you have plenty of time, it would be interesting to see Sail GP wins against the skippers age. I certainly dont have the time (or interest)

 

[Curious2]

So you suggest that the Perth Moth worlds are a true and accurate representation for youth participation in foiling classes globally? I wouldn't have thought so.

I would suggest that the 420's would have higher participation from kids because they are cheap as chips and parts are cheap and plentiful. I even sailed one but took too much big boat knowledge to it and never did well.

The Wazsp specifically has boats designed for kids to get a pathway into foiling...well specifically they have two boats with ages ranging from 11 to 17 targeted. That is one class.

The development classes like Moths have an uncanny knack of pushing away youth participation by making them financially unachievable....which drives people to go back to 1959 tech on the 420...but there would still be plenty of under 25's sailing around the world in that class alone.

Burtling beat the combined power of knowledge of Bruni and Spithill in the AC.

If you have plenty of time, it would be interesting to see Sail GP wins against the skippers age. I certainly dont have the time (or interest)

You're right, the cheap classes are where youth are found.

I used the Moth worlds as a way of estimating Under 23 participation in ONE CLASS, not all classes globally. The same 10% proportion occurred in the 2020 UK Moth nats (last major event I can find age info on) and class AGM reports indicate that the 10% figure is probably an over-estimate; for example in 2018 (last year I can find details), for example, there was ONE junior member of the Australian Moth association - yep, just one! Oh, and guess how many juniors were at the last Aussie nationals - yep, one. So the 15% figure is likely to be a big over-estimate.

Anyway, using the 15% estimate and national reports to the class AGM, we can say that there are about 75 youth/Under 23s sailing Moths around the world.

There's been something like 1400 Waszps sold. Let's assume that, as at the worlds, 2/3 of them are youth. That makes 924 young Waszpers, so let's say 1000.

There were 722 A Class members at the last worlds AGM. Like the Moth, these are expensive boats and therefore young sailors are quite rare. In several of the class' major countries, most boats are non-foilers so let's say 50% (360 boats) are foiling. Let's say that young sailors are way more common at national level (although there is no evidence for that) and that they make up 10% of foilers and that gives us 36 young sailors on foiling As.

The other foiler fleets (Nacra 17, UFO, etc) are all tiny. So we have say 1100 U-23s on Waszps, Moths and A Class, and maybe a few elsewhere. There's no evidence of "thousands" of young people on foiling boats.

There's NOTHING wrong about the fact that the foilers aren't attracting lots of youth; plenty of my favourite classes have few kids (and some have heaps) but surely we have to admit the reality, and what it means about the promotion of the sport and its main events.

As far as age goes, the Moth and A Class seem to show no evidence that age is a big barrier to success, or that it leads to crashes. What could be significant is that guys like Tom, Nathan Outteridge and Gashby spent a lot of time on slalom windsurfers before foiling came along, and with guys like Francesco Bruni, Blair Tuke and Peter Burling they have since spent a lot of time on Moths and As. They must have hundreds more hours driving 30-40 knot craft than Ainslie has, so not wonder it shows.

 

[dogwatch]

It was in a recent AC40 'Recon' report iirc, where the article said they weren't sure when the AP was being used and when it was not. They also, again iirc, said that other teams had sent 'questions' to that ETNZ-chosen Recon team. Would love to know what those questions are, wish they would publish them.

What is AP? Not, I guess, Accounts Payable.

 

[Forourselves]

Still waiting for the explanation that 1.4 billion is less than 16 million.. you know cos electric vehicles are “everywhere”

that's not hating it’s just hard fact

They're all over the world, from the US, to the UK, to Europe, to Australia, to NZ. Literally everywhere
The goal is for half of all new car sales to be electric or fuel cell or hybrid vehicles by 2030. If that goal is achieved, 60-70% of all cars on the road would be EV's.

 

[Jethrow]

What is AP? Not, I guess, Accounts Payable.

I was guessing AutoPilot...

 

[dogwatch]

Autopilot more of a distance racing thing, I'd have thought?

 

[Terry Hollis]

I think that you might find there are a lot of options apart from the 420's to attract young sailors away from the Perth worlds.

Have a look at this site as an example ..

Kiteboard, SUP, Surf, Wing Foils Tauranga | Assault Boardriding Centre

www.assault.co.nz

 

[Curious2]

I think that you might find there are a lot of options apart from the 420's to attract young sailors away from the Perth worlds.

Have a look at this site as an example ..

Kiteboard, SUP, Surf, Wing Foils Tauranga | Assault Boardriding Centre

www.assault.co.nz

Ironically, the other day down at the club I was talking to a guy who has been top 5 in a foiling boat worlds (between Burling and Outteridge) and we agreed that that if you want to foil, boards are a far more logical option than boats in many ways. I'm chasing a board foil as we speak.

But with just 23 entries of all ages at the Australian kitefoiling 2021 nationals (also in Perth) and 13 at the NZ nationals, there's not much evidence of a huge swing to kitefoiling. The Australian windfoiling nats got 21 sailors of all ages - not huge.

I only gave the 420s as an example of one class that probably gets more active young racing sailors than all the foiling classes combined, with the possible exception of windfoiling. The point is that this idea that lots of kids are getting into racing on foils just is not true.

That link isn't opening for me but if it's just an advertising site with hype it's basically utterly irrelevant. It seems to mainly promoting wingfoiling which is fun, but the other funny thing is that I bet that bugger-all of the foilanatics on this forum have ever stepped on a wingfoil, or any other foil - they mostly just say "everyone else should foil, while I just sit back comfortably and pretend that I'd do it"

 

[Varan]

. "We got up to about 46kts or something like that today, so we weren't pushing it too hard on Day 5," said helmsman Peter Burling

Sail-World

 

[JALhazmat]

They're all over the world, from the US, to the UK, to Europe, to Australia, to NZ. Literally everywhere
The goal is for half of all new car sales to be electric or fuel cell or hybrid vehicles by 2030. If that goal is achieved, 60-70% of all cars on the road would be EV's.

So that leaves out South America, Africa, Middle East and Far East and Russia…

16.5 million vs 1.4billion lol

that’s not everywhere is it? That’s what you stated. Stop telling lies.

 

[Stingray~]

^ Yes, AP meant ride-height ‘Autopilot’ in this conversation.

Blowing!

Cup Spy: New speed mark and capsize punctuate AC40 session in 25kt winds

The AC40 was put through its paces in a morning session on the 2021 America's Cup Courses D and E off Auckland's Eastern Beach, in the strongest winds yet experienced. The day was punctuated with a new top speed and another capsize.

www.sail-world.com

 

[smackdaddy]

View attachment 544791
. "We got up to about 46kts or something like that today, so we weren't pushing it too hard on Day 5," said helmsman Peter Burling

Sail-World

“‘I think everything's improving, right across the board,‘ Burling said. ‘We're still very much in the commissioning phase of this boat. Everything's getting better in the way people are using systems, and that's a pretty big gain across the board. Obviously, the autopilot is a big part of that as well.’

The AC40 tipped over for the third time in five days of sailing.”

bwahahahahaha

These “people using these systems“ are just seasoned pros. Hey, I have an idea! Let’s throw some children in there and see what happens!

 

[Liquid]

I'm sure the 'recon' team will be along shortly with some far away, straight line foiling vids.

Hopefully, they've worked on their SD card workflows...

 

[Stingray~]

46 knots is nothing to sneeze at, that sucker will be fast. Am a little surprised the foils are designed for speeds that high, versus a more 'stable' version.

 

[david r]

Maybe they have high wind foils, and other foils for less wind.

 

[Sailbydate]

So, TNZ proved that the AC40 needs the leeward foil down for stability. Good to know, team.

What a very cool and exciting boat. Can't wait to see some racing, in due course.

 

[Stingray~]

So, TNZ proved that the AC40 needs the leeward foil down for stability. Good to know, team.

Yes, that was funny. It won't be the first time we see mishaps like that, with all the controls to deal with and (mis)communications possible.

The boat looks pretty wild!