Active Captain acquired by Garmin

[Not My Real Name]

I don't know if anyone else uses Active Captain for crowdsourced cruising information, but they were recently acquired by Garmin.

To date, AC was a home grown operation started by a couple that cruises part time on a Trawler on the East Coast. It's a reasonably good resource, though far better in the US than out since most of us in more remote places are blazing the crowdsourced trails there.

It integrates with various packages, e.g. I can see ActiveCaptain reviews and data on my MaxSea software.

If I recall SmackDaddy may be a huge fan?

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/2017/05/garmin-acquires-developer-of-activecaptain/

 

[Jeffrey Siegel]

...they cruise full time on their pocket freighter, Red Head.

 

[Not My Real Name]

...they cruise full time on their pocket freighter, Red Head.

Ah, I thought you guys were still spending part of the year in Castine. My mistake.

I won't pretend to know the difference between a trawler and a "pocket freighter" since I've never heard of the latter.

 

[smackdaddy]

Why BJP - you freakin' pot-stirrer! Heh.

Yeah, I tweeted about this the day it happened, and also JUST posted about it here and on my blog - so I won't repeat it here. It will be interesting to see which way this goes. Let's just say I'm not convinced this is "awesome". AntiqueCaptain was problematic and kind of fading anyway as far as I'm concerned. I think there are far better products out there.

So, as a bit of a BoatingTechGeek, I'm in the meh column on this one. But who knows, maybe Garmin can fix this kind of outcome...

 

[Not My Real Name]

Why BJP - you freakin' pot-stirrer! Heh.

Yeah, I tweeted about this the day it happened, and also JUST posted about it here and on my blog - so I won't repeat it here. It will be interesting to see which way this goes. Let's just say I'm not convinced this is "awesome". AntiqueCaptain was problematic and kind of fading anyway as far as I'm concerned. I think there are far better products out there.

So, as a bit of a BoatingTechGeek, I'm in the meh column on this one.

I've found it to be very useful in the U.S., less so out of it since many places I went there were no entries. Especially on the Pacific side of the canal, there was more information in the Caribbean.

I've not seen any other crowd-sourced, free site that provides any similar data in other parts of the world. I know there are some commercial options.

While I don't always see eye-to-eye with them on his recommendations for things (we have very different cruising styles, boats, and geographic locations), on the whole I still find the program worth while. Some good deals still come through on the weekly newsletter, I hope that continues.

 

[smackdaddy]

I've found it to be very useful in the U.S., less so out of it since many places I went there were no entries. Especially on the Pacific side of the canal, there was more information in the Caribbean.

I've not seen any other crowd-sourced, free site that provides any similar data in other parts of the world. I know there are some commercial options.

While I don't always see eye-to-eye with Jeff on his recommendations for things (we have very different cruising styles, boats, and geographic locations), on the whole I still find the program worth while. Some good deals still come through on the weekly newsletter, I hope that continues.

I don't know if you've seen it BJ, but I did an EXHAUSTIVE (and widely read according to the Google results) side-by-side review of AC and Waterway Guide on my blog (linky) and then slogged it out forever with several chuckleheads on one of my epic SN threads (linky). Since I did that review, Waterway Guide Explorer (linky) has improved even more while AC has remained in Flash-based Purgatory falling further and further behind (my previous point). On my blog post in the comments, you can also see where ACDude was bragging about having 500K users by the end of 2016 - where this new release from Garmin states only 250K in Q2 of 2017? WTH? It's always hard to know what's true with AC.

So, for the US and Carib I think WG is very quickly displacing AC as the high-quality planning tool for boaters - much to ACDude's displeasure (see his infamous FB group spam call below - which he deleted after his own members crowdshamed him).

But you're right, to date the WG footprint is pretty much East-coast-and-Carib-centric. That said, I doubt they're standing still on that kind of stuff. We'll see.

Anyway, I've made my case and made my decision - and I've gotten plenty of blackhat blowback from ACDude over it. Oh well. Now it's in Garmin's far more stable hands. That's a good step. I'll be interested to see where they take it.

In the mean time, I've been coming across some VERY cool new tech in this arena. I'll be doing more reviews soon. Pretty exciting stuff.

 

[Not My Real Name]

I don't know if you've seen it BJ, but I did an EXHAUSTIVE (and widely read according to the Google results) side-by-side review of AC and Waterway Guide on my blog (linky) and then slogged it out forever with several chuckleheads on one of my epic SN threads (linky). Since I did that review, Waterway Guide Explorer (linky) has improved even more while AC has remained in Flash-based Purgatory falling further and further behind (my previous point). On my blog post in the comments, you can also see where ACDude was bragging about having 500K users by the end of 2016 - where this new release from Garmin states only 250K in Q2 of 2017? WTH? It's always hard to know what's true with AC.

So, for the US and Carib I think WG is very quickly displacing AC as the high-quality planning tool for boaters - much to ACDude's displeasure (see his spam call below - which he deleted after his own members shamed him).

But you're right, to date the WG footprint is pretty much East-coast-and-Carib-centric. That said, I don't think they're standing still on that kind of stuff. We'll see.

Anyway, I've made my case and made my decision - and I've gotten plenty of blackhat blowback from ACDude over it. Oh well. Now it's in Garmin's far more stable hands. That's a good step. I'll be interested to see where they take it.

I've read your comparison; I don't agree with all your points but I understand what you were getting at.

This is how I use ActiveCaptain. I only go to the website to leave reviews, and never run the App. I don't think WG integrates like this (those little bubbles are all ActiveCaptain info points) with my software. Not that I can see, and not for no charge.

 

[Jeffrey Siegel]

I was wrong about 500K users by the end of 2016.  I grossly underestimated the results.  This recent article got the number correct:

https://medium.com/@janetgannon92/charting-changes-noaas-plans-for-the-future-of-charts-poll-92d8a1473e0c

250K is the number who have contributed information.

Booyah!

 

[smackdaddy]

From what I know the only in-chart integration for WG at this point is with iNavX. We use that as our primary chartplotter and the integration therein looks like this with the Navionics charts...



iNavX could definitely do with working on the layout/formatting in the WG pop-ups, but in our last leg from Texas to Florida, I was very pleased with the info. Even so, it looks like a similar problem occurs in Timezero (dark purple text against dark background?). I guess there's always room for improvement.

But as I've said, I think the main strength of POI/Guide data is in planning, not underway navigation. As I pointed out with the photo above, relying on AC data for navigation can obviously rip the rudder out of your boat.

Regardless, I'd like to think there are smarter ways of implementing such data into chartplotters...making it more selective and contextual. When you get into frequently cruised areas you can get lost in the fog of AC markers when there are plenty of other things you should be paying attention to while steering. So I'm not yet sold on chartplotter integration per se - at least the way it's being done now. I think there are better ways...regardless of the platform.

But for planning, I've been very, very impressed with WG - using WGExplorer for the pre-trip planning, the printed guide for TONS of great additional information when visiting these places, and the iNavX integration for quick reference (bridge numbers/channels/clearances, etc.) while underway. For most cruisers, that's a killer combo.

I'll do another review using all three WG products in our upcoming Bahamas trip. Should be cool.

 

[smackdaddy]

I was wrong about 500K users by the end of 2016.  I grossly underestimated the results.  This recent article got the number correct:

https://medium.com/@janetgannon92/charting-changes-noaas-plans-for-the-future-of-charts-poll-92d8a1473e0c

250K is the number who have contributed information.

Booyah!

Oh this is great...

Jeff Siegel, a serial entrepreneur whose Active Captain (URL) is an online charting information add-on and boater network with 1.5 million members worldwide.

Now it's charting information and 1.5 million members? Wow. Maybe you should tell your new employer they have their numbers WAY wrong. Seems they'd want a press release to be accurate.

As for the quality of AC's charting information, we've already seen the results above. And as I've said before, the beauty of that is that the contributing member who provided that marker info that caused thousands of dollars of damage is the one who is legally liable for that damage per your TOS...not AC. Crowdsourced Litigation? NOAA should love that.

I think you should stick with POI info..not charting. Navionics is already WAY ahead of you on that front.

As for the numbers, do you remember saying this?

“I’m the software developer behind ActiveCaptain and the person who verifies and validates all hazards and anchorages. I’ve personally evaluated each one that has been entered. I also read every comment written on every hazard to determine if some of the details need to be updated because of dredging, aid-to-navigation replacement, or other factors. At this moment, there are about 3,000 active hazards throughout the world listed.”

You've been busy - obviously.

So, like I've always said, with AC (and Brent Swain) one never quite knows what to believe. Hopefully your new employer will address that.

 

[Not My Real Name]

Oh this is great...

Now it's charting information and 1.5 million members? Wow. Maybe you should tell your new employer they have their numbers WAY wrong. Seems they'd want a press release to be accurate.

As for the quality of AC's charting information, we've already seen the results above. And as I've said before, the beauty of that is that the contributing member who provided that marker info that caused thousands of dollars of damage is the one who is legally liable for that damage per your TOS...not AC. Crowdsourced Litigation? NOAA should love that.

I think you should stick with POI info..not charting. Navionics is already WAY ahead of you on that front.

As for the numbers, do you remember saying this?

You've been busy - obviously.

So, like I've always said, with AC (and Brent Swain) one never quite knows what to believe. Hopefully your new employer will address that.

I am inclined to believe that the Captain of the vessel is STILL fundamentally responsible for what happens when it is under his or her command. You look at multiple information sources for everything, but you, as the captain make the decision.

There are any number of variables that could account for an error like this. We hit a damned rock coming out of Onset for example when both our chartplotter AND the freaking channel buoys indicated we were in the middle of the channel with plenty of water. Our best analysis was that the low tide allowed enough slack into the channel marker to let it float over further than it should have been to indicate the edge of the channel. Who should I sue, eh? The guy that publishes Eldridge?

If there is any doubt about obstructions in the water or depth, I'm not moving fast enough to rip my rudder off. I've navigated through waters that were literally uncharted, in the middle of an atoll in the South Pacific. You go slow, you move carefully, and you keep a careful watch.

When I turn a $4,000 dollar chat plotter on in my cockpit, it STILL puts up a warning that you need to do proper navigation and not to rely solely on one source.

Please though, let's not turn this into a shitfight between you an @Jeffrey Siegel . I'd love to hear some intelligent discussion about the net effect of the acquisition, not name calling, insults and accusations.

 

[Not My Real Name]

From what I know the only in-chart integration for WG at this point is with iNavX. We use that as our primary chartplotter and the integration therein looks like this with the Navionics charts...

View attachment 237417

iNavX could definitely do with working on the layout/formatting in the WG pop-ups, but in our last leg from Texas to Florida, I was very pleased with the info. Even so, it looks like a similar problem occurs in Timezero (dark purple text against dark background?). I guess there's always room for improvement.

But as I've said, I think the main strength of POI/Guide data is in planning, not underway navigation. As I pointed out with the photo above, relying on AC data for navigation can obviously rip the rudder out of your boat.

Regardless, I'd like to think there are smarter ways of implementing such data into chartplotters...making it more selective and contextual. When you get into frequently cruised areas you can get lost in the fog of AC markers when there are plenty of other things you should be paying attention to while steering. So I'm not yet sold on chartplotter integration per se - at least the way it's being done now. I think there are better ways...regardless of the platform.

But for planning, I've been very, very impressed with WG - using WGExplorer for the pre-trip planning, the printed guide for TONS of great additional information when visiting these places, and the iNavX integration for quick reference (bridge numbers/channels/clearances, etc.) while underway. For most cruisers, that's a killer combo.

I'll do another review using all three WG products in our upcoming Bahamas trip. Should be cool.

It will be years before WG will do me any good since their coverage area is so limited. And that will revert to never if they don't get to integrate with MaxSea, even if I do sail back into their limited range.

I took a quick screen shot for you, I can turn on or off a variety of information bits from Points of Interest, both from Active Captain, Panaramio Pictures, and my own pictures. I've never had a problem with visibility or readability. MaxSea has a Planning workspace and a Navigation (active course) work space. I can put the information on either once, but I generally leave Navigation clear without it and show it on planning. Since both are tied to the instruments, I can do last minute "planning" with the anchorage information when needed, if it is there.

Being there is the big one. There aren't too many AC points in the South Pacific, and some of the ones that are I created. There's only limited penetration in Australia too, so only a few posts in the places we've been hanging lately. The difference though is that we CAN create the POI's ourselves and report on them. I don't think WG will let me add anchorages in and around Sydney, for example.

 

[smackdaddy]

I've run aground a couple of times - both of them completely my fault and not the fault of the chart or anything else. So I agree with you. My point above is that FB poster said they specifically followed the recommendations in that AC marker - even though it conflicted with the charts. And JS was talking about getting in touch with NOAA to change the soundings - when the soundings were not the issue. Again, the problem with these kinds of AC markers is that those members are the ones on the hook for this stuff - and I think that's a real problem. Recommending marinas or anchorages is one thing - contravening charts and being liable for damage is entirely another. People should understand that...regardless of how one feels about our litigious society. It's an issue.

 

[smackdaddy]

It will be years before WG will do me any good since their coverage area is so limited. And that will revert to never if they don't get to integrate with MaxSea, even if I do sail back into their limited range.

I took a quick screen shot for you, I can turn on or off a variety of information bits from Points of Interest, both from Active Captain, Panaramio Pictures, and my own pictures. I've never had a problem with visibility or readability. MaxSea has a Planning workspace and a Navigation (active course) work space. I can put the information on either once, but I generally leave Navigation clear without it and show it on planning. Since both are tied to the instruments, I can do last minute "planning" with the anchorage information when needed, if it is there.

Being there is the big one. There aren't too many AC points in the South Pacific, and some of the ones that are I created. There's only limited penetration in Australia too, so only a few posts in the places we've been hanging lately. The difference though is that we CAN create the POI's ourselves and report on them. I don't think WG will let me add anchorages in and around Sydney, for example.

Yeah, WG is definitely not currently covering Sydney - or Hiva Oa. BUT, you actually could create a "marker" there and let them know what it's for. Here's the view...

View attachment 237418

You can click on that Nav Alert icon lower right, then click on the spot you want to mark. You'll get a pop-up where you can enter your info. As it says, they'll review and likely converse with you about it - then place the marker if it's legit. You should try it.

A couple of things I like about it is that, first, unlike AC you don't have to create an account to simply see the information in WGExplorer. Second, they have paid On The Water Editors who verify and validate info. Not a bad gig. You should actually talk to them since you're in some areas that could definitely use some fill in. Might be cool.

As for MaxSeaTZ - that looks like a seriously sweet tool.

PS - Holy crap. I just noticed the weather overlay tab up top with NOAA and Windyty options. This thing just keeps getting cooler and cooler.

 

[Not My Real Name]

I've run aground a couple of times - both of them completely my fault and not the fault of the chart or anything else. So I agree with you. My point above is that FB poster said they specifically followed the recommendations in that AC marker - even though it conflicted with the charts. And JS was talking about getting in touch with NOAA to change the soundings - when the soundings were not the issue. Again, the problem with these kinds of AC markers is that those members are the ones on the hook for this stuff - and I think that's a real problem. Recommending marinas or anchorages is one thing - contravening charts and being liable for damage is entirely another. People should understand that...regardless of how one feels about our litigious society. It's an issue.

Could indeed be an issue. Crowdsourced charting in general has some issues of calibration and coordination to deal with. How many people have their hull/keel offsets programmed correctly, for example. It doesn't matter so much in 30' of water, but if I'm looking to see if I can clear a harbor entrance a foot off can ruin my whole day. I don't know enough about how they correct for this data though, so I can't pontificate too much. So many soundings in the places I've cruised are dodgy, there's data on some of the charts from Captain Cook FFS.

One thing we did a lot with poorly charted places like Fiji is exchange GPS tracks with one another for successful navigation through various tight spots. So as long as you knew it wasn't from a catamaran or shoal draft boat you were usually pretty clear to convert it to a course. I sailed across places where my Mapmedia charts showed green at low tide (meaning exposed) where my boat looked like it was Brent Swaining across the reef on my chartplotter but I was in 35 feet of water with plenty of room to spare from the visible reef.

 

[Not My Real Name]

Yeah, WG is definitely not currently covering Sydney - or Hiva Oa. BUT, you actually could create a "marker" there and let them know what it's for. Here's the view...

View attachment 237418

You can click on that Nav Alert icon lower right, then click on the spot you want to mark. You'll get a pop-up where you can enter your info. As it says, they'll review and likely converse with you about it - then place the marker if it's legit. You should try it.

A couple of things I like about it is that, first, unlike AC you don't have to create an account to simply see the information in WGExplorer. Second, they have paid On The Water Editors who verify and validate info. Not a bad gig. You should actually talk to them since you're in some areas that could definitely use some fill in. Might be cool.

It doesn't sound like they are very interested in the parts of the world I am in yet.

 

[smackdaddy]

Why would you think they're not interested? I certainly would be interested in your anchorages around Sydney. I obviously can't speak for WG, but I would think they would be interested in growing their coverage - just like any other platform.

 

[smackdaddy]

there's data on some of the charts from Captain Cook FFS.

Brent Swaining

1. And he got eaten, so who's going to follow that idiot?

2. We have a new term of art.

 

[rainbowrunner]

There is a brand new one started by a nice young couple cruising the east coast of Australia. Zuluwaterways.com.

The couple are real, modest, long term cruising sailors. Their intentions seem genuinely community orientated.