Ahmad Arbery Trial.

roundthebuoys

Super Anarchist
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By accounts Ahmed fought back. So doesn’t that give the killers the right to defend themselves in the act of executing a citizens arrest?

I really don’t see the difference you guys see between kyle and the other killers. Both found themselves getting attacked. Both responded.
How does anyone know if someone is legit "executing a citizens arrest"?  I've never met a single person who has executed a citizens arrest or been citizen arrested, if that's what it's called.  I know people who have called the police, which is what should happen every single time, but who are these armed idiots going around making law and order decisions (clearly deadly ones) for kicks?  America is stupid.

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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How does anyone know if someone is legit "executing a citizens arrest"?  I've never met a single person who has executed a citizens arrest or been citizen arrested, if that's what it's called.  I know people who have called the police, which is what should happen every single time, but who are these armed idiots going around making law and order decisions (clearly deadly ones) for kicks?  America is stupid.
This self defense stuff with lots of people armed is impossible to figure out. By all indications Kyle will walk and the Georgia guys will do time. But no one can explain why the difference.

 

Mrleft8

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By accounts Ahmed fought back. So doesn’t that give the killers the right to defend themselves in the act of executing a citizens arrest?

I really don’t see the difference you guys see between kyle and the other killers. Both found themselves getting attacked. Both responded.
Ahmed Arbery didn't "fight back" he was trying to protect himself.

 You got 3 red necks chasing you down with a shot gun and a truck, as well as a video camera while you're jogging through your neighborhood. They try to run you off the road. You run faster until you're trapped by the vehicle and the guy with the gun. You have no place to go. You run, you get shot in the back. You stand your ground, you have a chance that someone might think twice. These 3 guys did think twice. They killed an apparently innocent man. And never said a fucking word about it until pressured. The police dept. kept it hush hush until it was made public.

 If this guy Ahmed Arbery was such a menace to society why was there not a great celebration when he was cut down?

 Because the fucking red necks, and their buddies knew how it would look.

"In the Heat of The Night" was just a prelude. At least Rod Steiger's character was honest, even if it was forced upon him.

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
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Ahmed Arbery didn't "fight back" he was trying to protect himself.

 You got 3 red necks chasing you down with a shot gun and a truck, as well as a video camera while you're jogging through your neighborhood. They try to run you off the road. You run faster until you're trapped by the vehicle and the guy with the gun. You have no place to go. You run, you get shot in the back. You stand your ground, you have a chance that someone might think twice. These 3 guys did think twice. They killed an apparently innocent man. And never said a fucking word about it until pressured. The police dept. kept it hush hush until it was made public.

 If this guy Ahmed Arbery was such a menace to society why was there not a great celebration when he was cut down?

 Because the fucking red necks, and their buddies knew how it would look.

"In the Heat of The Night" was just a prelude. At least Rod Steiger's character was honest, even if it was forced upon him.
I’m with you 100%, so why do the guys Kyle killed, who were trying to disarm what to everyone looked like an active shooter, not get the same sympathy?

 

Mrleft8

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How does anyone know if someone is legit "executing a citizens arrest"?  I've never met a single person who has executed a citizens arrest or been citizen arrested, if that's what it's called.  I know people who have called the police, which is what should happen every single time, but who are these armed idiots going around making law and order decisions (clearly deadly ones) for kicks?  America is stupid.
A citizens arrest does not entitle you to use deadly force unless you fear for your life, or the life of someone else in close proximity.

 In fact a citizens arrest does not entitle you to use physical restraints (cuffs, Zip ties etc.) on the person you are arresting, unless there is reasonable thought that the arrestee could cause physical harm to others, themselves, or property.

All a citizens arrest really does is make a note of activity before law enforcement shows up.

 

roundthebuoys

Super Anarchist
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A citizens arrest does not entitle you to use deadly force unless you fear for your life, or the life of someone else in close proximity.

 In fact a citizens arrest does not entitle you to use physical restraints (cuffs, Zip ties etc.) on the person you are arresting, unless there is reasonable thought that the arrestee could cause physical harm to others, themselves, or property.

All a citizens arrest really does is make a note of activity before law enforcement shows up.
Seems reasonable

 

Mrleft8

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I’m with you 100%, so why do the guys Kyle killed, who were trying to disarm what to everyone looked like an active shooter, not get the same sympathy?
It's not a sympathy thing.

 Kyle was not jogging unarmed down a suburban street, being chased by guys with a p/u truck and a shotgun. He went to an urban environment embroiled ina racially charged protest rally, armed with an assault weapon, which he clearly used to intimidate people. When people stood up to him, he shot, and killed. Ahmed Arbery did not have a weapon, and he did not try to intimidate anyone (that I saw).

 

Steam Flyer

Super Anarchist
40,087
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A citizens arrest does not entitle you to use deadly force unless you fear for your life, or the life of someone else in close proximity.   ...
This makes no sense. If you fear for your life because of a situation that you willingly created, that gives you the right to kill?

You're making a citizen's arrest. OK, the person you're arresting says "Fuck you" and walks away. You pull a gun on him and yell "Stop, or I'll shoot!" He doesn't stop. You shoot him. .... have you just committed a crime?

Scenario 2- the person you attempt to arrest citizenly smacks the gun out of your hand. You're afraid he'll grab it and shoot you, so you grab it first and shoot him.... have you committed a crime?

What makes people think that showing up with a gun somehow makes it OK to shoot people?

- DSK

 

roundthebuoys

Super Anarchist
9,909
909
Limelight
This makes no sense. If you fear for your life because of a situation that you willingly created, that gives you the right to kill?

You're making a citizen's arrest. OK, the person you're arresting says "Fuck you" and walks away. You pull a gun on him and yell "Stop, or I'll shoot!" He doesn't stop. You shoot him. .... have you just committed a crime?

Scenario 2- the person you attempt to arrest citizenly smacks the gun out of your hand. You're afraid he'll grab it and shoot you, so you grab it first and shoot him.... have you committed a crime?

What makes people think that showing up with a gun somehow makes it OK to shoot people?

- DSK
Ask the Joke, he's really passionate about this for some reason.

 

Raz'r

Super Anarchist
59,432
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De Nile
This makes no sense. If you fear for your life because of a situation that you willingly created, that gives you the right to kill?

You're making a citizen's arrest. OK, the person you're arresting says "Fuck you" and walks away. You pull a gun on him and yell "Stop, or I'll shoot!" He doesn't stop. You shoot him. .... have you just committed a crime?

Scenario 2- the person you attempt to arrest citizenly smacks the gun out of your hand. You're afraid he'll grab it and shoot you, so you grab it first and shoot him.... have you committed a crime?

What makes people think that showing up with a gun somehow makes it OK to shoot people?

- DSK
In Wisconsin, regardless of who started the interaction, you have a right to kill if you’re afraid. Seems stupid. But it is what it is.

 

Mrleft8

Super Anarchist
24,584
3,063
Suwanee River
This makes no sense. If you fear for your life because of a situation that you willingly created, that gives you the right to kill?

You're making a citizen's arrest. OK, the person you're arresting says "Fuck you" and walks away. You pull a gun on him and yell "Stop, or I'll shoot!" Up until now you're good He doesn't stop. You shoot him. .... have you just committed a crime? If he was walking away, and not threatening your life, or the life of another nearby person, you have committed a crime.

Scenario 2- the person you attempt to arrest citizenly smacks the gun out of your hand. You're afraid he'll grab it and shoot you, so you grab it first and shoot him.... have you committed a crime? Why did you draw a gun on him if he was un-armed? If you were afraid for your life, or the life of another person near by, then in theory, depending on other witness testimony, you're probably OK. But drawing a gun on an un-armed person might raise some questions in some places...

What makes people think that showing up with a gun somehow makes it OK to shoot people? This I can not answer.

- DSK

 

Steam Flyer

Super Anarchist
40,087
7,611
Eastern NC
Ask the Joke, he's really passionate about this for some reason.
Because he (and Burning Jeff, and tens of millions of other fellow RWNJs) think it's OK, as long as the people being killed have colored skin or are libby-rulls or something. They have adopted Kyle as their mascot and don't care what really happened.

In Wisconsin, regardless of who started the interaction, you have a right to kill if you’re afraid. Seems stupid. But it is what it is.
Florida and a bunch of other states (mostly red) too.

And the rest of the world thinks we USAnians are death-crazed maniacs, this is why. What started out as the right to self-defense has turned into "it's OK to kill anybody if you can justify somehow that they are scary and needed killin'....."

What makes people think that showing up with a gun somehow makes it OK to shoot people?
This I can not answer.
We're good. I did not mean to put you on the spot.

- DSK

 

Dex Sawash

Demi Anarchrist
2,414
661
NC USA
Trayvon. Ok

Trayvon = Ahmed UNTIL he decided to circle back and confront Zimmerman.  Then he became Rosenbaum.  
CFfZ.gif


 

learningJ24

Super Anarchist
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390
We have achieved the stage where it comes down to 'who was scared first and most?", while also disproving the "armed society is a polite society" theory.

The Kyle trial is based upon the assumption that property is more important than life, even if it wasn't his property.  It gets complicated since a reasonable person would have fear for his safety from an assault rifle armed person in the street during a riot.  Under the current environment, wouldn't carrying a defensive weapon be reasonable?

In the other trial, would the discussion be the same if the race of those involved were flipped?  A white guy goes jogging in the hood and is hunted down because he 'doesn't belong here" and a shooting develops.  Would we trying to blame the victim somehow? Or if Arbury had a gun and shot his pursuers?

These are the natural outgrowths of encouraging the carrying of weapons on the street. 

 

The Joker

Super Anarchist
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World of Shit
We have achieved the stage where it comes down to 'who was scared first and most?", while also disproving the "armed society is a polite society" theory.

The Kyle trial is based upon the assumption that property is more important than life, even if it wasn't his property.  It gets complicated since a reasonable person would have fear for his safety from an assault rifle armed person in the street during a riot.  Under the current environment, wouldn't carrying a defensive weapon be reasonable?

In the other trial, would the discussion be the same if the race of those involved were flipped?  A white guy goes jogging in the hood and is hunted down because he 'doesn't belong here" and a shooting develops.  Would we trying to blame the victim somehow? Or if Arbury had a gun and shot his pursuers?

These are the natural outgrowths of encouraging the carrying of weapons on the street. 
Who is blaming Ahmed?  I haven’t heard or read that.  Could you provide a source.  

 

jocal505

moderate, informed gunowner
14,114
254
Seattle, Wa
VOICES FROM THE SINGLE WIDE

Please, this is what vigilantism looks like. The defense itself said Ahmed's physical reaction to the confrontation caused a need for their "self defense"... during a provocation, dressed up as a fucking "citizen's arrest." @Burning Man

We have achieved the stage where it comes down to 'who was scared first and most?", while also disproving the "armed society is a polite society" theory.
Yes. What a mess... and it was entirely predictable (for 700 years BTW). People do not behave the same when a gun is around. Benign reactions are not what we get with "the weapons effect." To wit: bystanders are terrorized: they feel stripped of domestic tranquility, or something. They get the ol' "fight or flight," then the shit happens. It was set up for predictable shit to happen, with many Boothy types out there.

In the Kyle situation, we had multiple guns, with APC's and LE nearby... and the outcome was another mess. This one was set up as a self-righteous, illegally-armed confrontation, with the BLM scene, in the name of protecting a car dealer's gig...where the shootings did not occur.

^^^ Vigilantism. 

 
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learningJ24

Super Anarchist
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390
Who is blaming Ahmed?  I haven’t heard or read that.  Could you provide a source.  
Is that not the basis of a "self-defense" claim? That the victim caused his condition by scaring the guy with the gun?  The one that claimed he was trying to "de-escalate" the situation by pointing a shotgun at the victim.

 

The Joker

Super Anarchist
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World of Shit
Is that not the basis of a "self-defense" claim? That the victim caused his condition by scaring the guy with the gun?  The one that claimed he was trying to "de-escalate" the situation by pointing a shotgun at the victim.
Using the defense presented by his lawyers is not what I’m talking about I’m talking about the repeated mantra that  those of us on the right blindly support one side regardless of the actual facts.   
So again outside the lawyers involved in the defense where have you seen claims that Ahmed was at fault?
 

 
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