Air Force Pilot Screws Up - Wrong Airport

[RedTuna]

He once told me that flight engineering a jet was a bore, little to do other than monitor temperatures. He preferred the reciprocating engines ...

Here's the flight engineer's desk in an old version of the C-5.  From the lap brick, I think MADARS III.  Look like a boring place to sit?

A bit overwhelming, huh?  When a friend and co-worker was transitioning from a C-130 FE to C-5 in 1985 or so, he was amazed and challenged at the additional complexity.  Really only mentioning this because he rode 68-228 into the dirt at Ramstein during Desert Shield and to remind people how dangerous military aviation can be even as we mock the occasional cock-up. 

 

[mikewof]

Here's the flight engineer's desk in an old version of the C-5.  From the lap brick, I think MADARS III.  Look like a boring place to sit?



A bit overwhelming, huh?  When a friend and co-worker was transitioning from a C-130 FE to C-5 in 1985 or so, he was amazed and challenged at the additional complexity.  Really only mentioning this because he rode 68-228 into the dirt at Ramstein during Desert Shield and to remind people how dangerous military aviation can be even as we mock the occasional cock-up. 

Cripes, like fucking a robot.

Anyway, that's what my Uncle told me, he said the flight engineering for the jet cargo transports was partly automated and not too much went wrong. He engineered and repaired planes in the Pacific in WWII, he was presumably used to a lot of shit getting screwed-up, iced-up, melted and broken in flight in the old reciprocating engine planes, with no computers to control anything.

That photo is interesting, I think I can see the symmetry on the bottom row of gauge and controls, with the gauge sets on either side of the fuselage, to sets for each engine ... is that little U-shape to the upper left corner of the computer representative of the center of the plane?

 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

Here's the flight engineer's desk in an old version of the C-5.  From the lap brick, I think MADARS III.  Look like a boring place to sit?



A bit overwhelming, huh?  When a friend and co-worker was transitioning from a C-130 FE to C-5 in 1985 or so, he was amazed and challenged at the additional complexity.  Really only mentioning this because he rode 68-228 into the dirt at Ramstein during Desert Shield and to remind people how dangerous military aviation can be even as we mock the occasional cock-up. 

I was a docent and airplane and crew focal for an air show at Long Beach.  They gave me the C-5A. Those guys and gals were great: The crew of 12-15 were pros and had everything already figured out long ago. The hardest thing I did for them all weekend was get them several cases of water and bags of ice a day. My buddies who had the F-16, F-18 and F-117 had a much harder time, as the pilots were only interested in chasing skirt.  The F-117 at that time was still Top Secret, and it was guarded by a huge, non-smiling Air Police Sergeant with an M-16, who desperately wanted to shoot a pilot, but would settle for a docent.  

In my spare time, the four(!) pilots and two flight engineers took me up the ladder to the cockpit. (Nowhere nearly as well lit as the photo.)  I remember looking at the flight engineer's station and being amazed at the amount of systems that were red-tagged InOp. That's we we have lots of 'em!, was the cheerful reply.    

 

[Snaggletooth]

That's we we have lots of 'em!, was the cheerful reply.    

Sine of confidense, and sense of selfe..........       to thums waye up....                     

 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

Sine of confidense, and sense of selfe..........       to thums waye up....                     

If you say so, Mr Snags.  Me, when my own, dearly beloved, neon-white butt is wearing a seat in a yestertech C-5... I'd like a little margin. 

 

[Snaggletooth]

OK Natiure Boye........   youre instinctes our firste hande, gotta go withe them............                   

 

[RedTuna]

If you say so, Mr Snags.  Me, when my own, dearly beloved, neon-white butt is wearing a seat in a yestertech C-5... I'd like a little margin. 

I hope the guys whose feet were dangling from the seats shown here on the pax deck were wearing their brown pants, for a little extra margin.  Glass cockpit, so not a completely yestertech C-5.

 

[IStream]

Wow. The front really did fall off. At least it's apparently outside of the environment.

 

[Blue Crab]

Always fun to read about what posters do/did on the way here.

 

[Elegua]

My father flew C-141's in MAC during Vietnam because in his words, "It was the safest aircraft in the inventory" and "Too expensive to let anyone shoot at".  He was a different kind of guy.  Apparently he had to finish high enough in his training class to be able to pick his aircraft. 

He had stories about fellow pilots navigating by following highways, landing on wrong runways or even airports - occasionally people coming back with a branch in the wing. Different time I guess. 

 

[Ed Lada]

My father flew C-141's in MAC during Vietnam because in his words, "It was the safest aircraft in the inventory" and "Too expensive to let anyone shoot at".  He was a different kind of guy.  Apparently he had to finish high enough in his training class to be able to pick his aircraft. 

He had stories about fellow pilots navigating by following highways, landing on wrong runways or even airports - occasionally people coming back with a branch in the wing. Different time I guess. 

I've flown a few times in C 141s.  both in the web seats down the sides and also on regular passenger seats, but facing to the rear of the plane.   I can't say that it's the most comfortable aircraft I've ever flown on.  Not too far below EasyJet though, maybe even a wash.  We didn't have to pay for the box lunch on the C 141.   

 

[Elegua]

I've flown a few times in C 141s.  both in the web seats down the sides and also on regular passenger seats, but facing to the rear of the plane.   I can't say that it's the most comfortable aircraft I've ever flown on.  Not too far below EasyJet though, maybe even a wash.  We didn't have to pay for the box lunch on the C 141.   

Did you get lunch? Seemed pretty austere from the pictures. I think it was one of the few AF jets to fly on a schedule like an airline. 

 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

I hope the guys whose feet were dangling from the seats shown here on the pax deck were wearing their brown pants, for a little extra margin.  Glass cockpit, so not a completely yestertech C-5.

View attachment 437344

Ho Lee Fwuk!  I'll bet that was a ride.  That'd be one where Rescue has to use the Jaws of Life to pull the seat cushions out of the crew's puckered arses.   

Did you get lunch? Seemed pretty austere from the pictures. I think it was one of the few AF jets to fly on a schedule like an airline. 

Overran the runway on landing? Takeoff? Where?    

 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

Did you get lunch? Seemed pretty austere from the pictures...

Coworker flew C-141s before thankfully transitioning to the KC-10. He called the StarLifter the East German WhisperJet.  Pressurized to keep the sound inside.    

 

[Elegua]

Coworker flew C-141s before thankfully transitioning to the KC-10. He called the StarLifter the East German WhisperJet.  Pressurized to keep the sound inside.    

Haha... These are stories from the '68-'72.  He enlisted when he graduated from grad school (same class as the orange one).  Some stories I believe, some I don't really believe, some I'd like to believe. The trees was supposedly a senior officer that didn't fly much landing a bit low at McGuire.  

 

[RedTuna]

Ho Lee Fwuk!  I'll bet that was a ride.  That'd be one where Rescue has to use the Jaws of Life to pull the seat cushions out of the crew's puckered arses.   

Overran the runway on landing? Takeoff? Where?    

Well, one of the pax, a retired Navy Chief's wife flying Space A, thought it was just a rough landing.  Guessing she couldn't see daylight. 

The instructor crew flying 84-059 out of Dover got a thrust reverser not locked light shortly after takeoff, maybe ten minutes or twelve, so shut down the engine per the TO.  Came back around to make a three engine landing, which they train for.  Every emergency checklist item basically screwed up due to the A/C commander getting pissed off at being vectored and slightly delayed for his instrument landing due to fire trucks not being in position yet.  So he declared a visual landing on an adjacent, longer runway.  Suddenly they were on approach and thrown into confusion.  Retarded throttles to descend a bit and then advanced throttles.  Problem was, crew advanced throttle on the dead engine and left the fully functional #3 engine at idle.  No one noticed, in part because of the new glass cockpit gauges showed the throttles advanced, but mostly confusion, as N1, N2 or TIT/EGT would have shown it.  Flaps were also set incorrectly and noticed too late; full flaps vs the correct 40% (IIRC).  Too low and out of energy.  I remember the FE not even knowing they were on approach until just before they crashed.  And I can still hear another voice saying, "Guys, I'm concerned."  Fortunately they ended up in farmland and not forest.

 

[Charlie Foxtrot]

Mein Gott.  Read the report - two seriously injured, no one killed.

Fortunately, St. Christopher was on the ball... Sounds like he was just about the only one.  

Problem when you fly with multiple pilots, copilots, naviguessers, flight engineers, flight commanders, check pilots, Brass... It can sometimes sound like more of a board meeting than a cockpit.  Cockpit Resource Management (CRM) can be a real challenge. 

Company sent me to ground school CRM. Unfortunately, I missed out getting to do it in the simulator.  The take away: Involve, listen, value, direct, delegate -- but if your butt is in the pilot's seat, when it comes time, YOU'RE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DECISIONS!