Alcatraz

Alcatraz5768

Super Anarchist
Hi team. We bought Alcatraz just before Easter last year. It is a race boat from 1982 and was built with full length wings for hiking assistance. When we bought the boat we were aware of some keel dramas (it had an alloy stub with lead semi bulb) and planned to design and fit a new keel this winter. Since sailing the boat a bit we decided to remove the wings as they didn't suit the racing we were doing, sailing with 5-6 peeps instead of the required 10 for human ballast. My wife also decided the boats cockpit was too deep as she is a short arse, so a new cockpit is in order. So we lifted the boat on Friday and spent 4 hours on Saturday dropping the keel, lifting the rig out and chainsawing the wings off. I am hoping to keep you all updated with our progress, or lack thereof. We have decided to do a nice job without turning it into a piece of furniture (cough cough FOP) so we can take the kids cruising this summer. To this end, i am after any tips or tricks to speed things up, as i know there is a wealth of info on this board.

Dave IMG_0366.jpg IMG_0784.jpg

 

Alcatraz5768

Super Anarchist
I just remembered a repair i did just prior to christmas which will hopefully illustrate the time constraints i am under. We have 4 kids and i am in the process of expanding my business so i am limited to one day every weekend and some evenings. Having said that i have been rushing everything in my life for the last 10 years so i am used to getting a lot done in a short amount of time.

IMG_0957.jpg IMG_0959.jpg IMG_0961.jpg IMG_0964.jpg IMG_0965.jpg IMG_0968.jpg IMG_0969.jpg

 

Ajax

Super Anarchist
14,363
2,719
Edgewater, MD
That's a very interesting boat!

I wish you'd left the wings, those are kind of unique (or maybe not, since I'm newish to sailing and racing and don't know shit).

I hear you about the rushing thing. Be careful though, as that path leads to mistakes and repeat-work.

Good luck, and I look forward to more progress photos.

 

Alcatraz5768

Super Anarchist
Quite a few people have said I should leave them, however when I said that I could remove them in one piece so they could fit them to their own boat they declined rapidly. The problem is the boat could only heel to about 15 degs and then the wing dug in and slowed the boat a great deal. At the end of the day, if they are so awesome , why was I the only boat in the marina with them?

I worked out a long time ago that the last 3% takes about 150% more time and I'm the only one who notices it. Therefore 97% is fine for me

 

Ajax

Super Anarchist
14,363
2,719
Edgewater, MD
Quite a few people have said I should leave them, however when I said that I could remove them in one piece so they could fit them to their own boat they declined rapidly. The problem is the boat could only heel to about 15 degs and then the wing dug in and slowed the boat a great deal. At the end of the day, if they are so awesome , why was I the only boat in the marina with them?

I worked out a long time ago that the last 3% takes about 150% more time and I'm the only one who notices it. Therefore 97% is fine for me
There is wisdom in what you say. I didn't know that the wings dug into the water, that would definitely be slow.

Good luck! :)

 

Alcatraz5768

Super Anarchist
A new cockpit is in order as the old one is out of date and too deep for my wife. I will be building in glass/foam/glass sole with glass/ply/glass sides and seats etc. She is tiller steered and we will be putting 2 hatches in the floor and 2 each side for storage when cruising.

I have had a look at the cockpit of a j111 and it looks like a good compromise between racing and cruising but have never sailed on one. Obviosly the tiller vs wheel will change the dynamics a little and i would like any input from sailers of the 111. I had thought of just a wide, shallow race style cockpit. but it will not help the resale value.

The rudder stock is about 350mm from the transom and the traveller goes across the floor in front of the tiller. The clutches are on the hatch cover in the centre of the companion way and the vang and downhaul will be each side in cam cleats. We have runners and a topmast backstay.

Any input from you guys who have sailed on a particularly well set up boat this size will help.

 

Alcatraz5768

Super Anarchist
I got the keel home yesterday, via the weigh station (1360kg) which gives us about a 31% ballast ratio if the boat is in cruise mode, both anchors, full tanks etc. I cleaned up one side which showed the new sheer line to be nice and fair. There is a stringer under the deck which makes me believe that there was a plan at one stage to do this. We will add to this to form a 40x70 gunwale then plank up the sides.

I noticed that the stern has a little "hook" in the bottom (about 8mm 400 from the transom) and was wondering wether to fair it out or leave it. My first thought was to get rid of it, however it does motor extremely well without squatting, in fact if I'm by myself the wake cleans up as if planing. Maybe it doesn't hurt.

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Alcatraz5768

Super Anarchist
More progress. I have cleaned up the port side and glued in the new gunwale. I have even got the scarf ready on the hull ply. Im sure that that is a record for me, from boat arriving home to gluing in new timber in only a few weeks.

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12 metre

Super Anarchist
3,745
612
English Bay
The answer to why other boats don't have them is that other boats are not designed to need them. The wings on this boat were a part of the overall design concept, which was to create a narrow and light boat (which has low drag, but little stability) and endow it with stability from the leverage of rail meat on the wings. There have been other boats designed around this concept such as the Moore 30 and Kiwi 35.

By removing the wings, I think you will find the boat very tender, even with bodies stacked on the rail, due to the narrow beam. You may end up wanting to shorten the mast and sail area. But who knows, give it a whirl.

 

BobBill

Super Anarchist
4,611
101
SE Minnesota.
Alcatraz ya got gonads...time and so on...have at it, keep us posted? We who have already been there and keep going back love the company. And, bet the neighbors are buying tripods...gotta love it.

 
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Alcatraz5768

Super Anarchist
The boat isn't particularly narrow ( just over 10 feet) and we are going to increase the draft to about 9 feet with a new T keel to help compensate. The boat appears to have been built with this mod in mind as there is a stringer under the deck in exact ally the right place for the gunwale. I will keep you posted.

 
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