Alinghi Challenge AC37

[pusslicker]

Enough with these bullshit comments. I'll own you every time, so don't try and pretend to be some tough guy that by your own admission "only talks this way on here" because that in itself just makes you look like some immature, insecure little shithead that has to pretend to be a tough a guy on the internet because he isn't one in real life.

You just did a pretty tidy job of describing yourself there.

 

[Forourselves]

My only grievance is the ease of his actioning the event off, no vendetta. He had little plan to stay, the search was started well before the racing. To now come up with every idea in the world to justify it doesn't change the fact.

The first reaction was how shortsighted Jacinda and Goff were, now it was a perfectly reasonable offer. Spin away.

Wouldn't it be prudent as a CEO to do exactly that? Given Covid gripped the world arpund Jan 2020, and NZ around April/ May 2020, resulting in NZ's first nationwide lockdown lasting 4 weeks, it was inevitable that it would eventually effect the Americas Cup in early 2021, as it did. Team NZ lost 5 weeks out of their build schedule and 5 months off their B1 with it on a ship to Europe and back. 

What do you expect him to do? Sit at home and hope and prey everything would be okay? Hope isn't an effective plan.

 

[Forourselves]

You just did a pretty tidy job of describing yourself there.

I don't pretend to be a tough guy. I just point out the fact that the Dalton haters live in a fantasy world and can't see past their personal vendettas and see reality.

 

[Gissie]

Wouldn't it be prudent as a CEO to do exactly that? Given Covid gripped the world arpund Jan 2020, and NZ around April/ May 2020, resulting in NZ's first nationwide lockdown lasting 4 weeks, it was inevitable that it would eventually effect the Americas Cup in early 2021, as it did. Team NZ lost 5 weeks out of their build schedule and 5 months off their B1 with it on a ship to Europe and back. 

What do you expect him to do? Sit at home and hope and prey everything would be okay? Hope isn't an effective plan.

Last one. Would it be prudent of a CEO of a private company to plan for moving on the off chance things didn't pan out.

Is it prudent for a supposedly national team to plan on pissing off if the wish list of hundreds of millions, with no strings of course, fails to appear. It would be more prudent for the leader of a national team to consider the possibility they may need to plan on how to lower costs.

So, you are correct, Dalton has done what any CEO of a private company (not a national team) would do. Take it to where the money and viewers hopefully are. Of course he hasn't planned it that well at all in the end. The promised dozens of cities bidding against each other for the cash cow cup seems to have evaporated into the ether. Now it is all about trying to just put something together, all while any bidder knows the team is getting desperate.

So much for good planning. All while pissing off a large chunk of his support base.

 

[Forourselves]

Last one. Would it be prudent of a CEO of a private company to plan for moving on the off chance things didn't pan out.

Is it prudent for a supposedly national team to plan on pissing off if the wish list of hundreds of millions, with no strings of course, fails to appear. It would be more prudent for the leader of a national team to consider the possibility they may need to plan on how to lower costs.

So, you are correct, Dalton has done what any CEO of a private company (not a national team) would do. Take it to where the money and viewers hopefully are. Of course he hasn't planned it that well at all in the end. The promised dozens of cities bidding against each other for the cash cow cup seems to have evaporated into the ether. Now it is all about trying to just put something together, all while any bidder knows the team is getting desperate.

So much for good planning. All while pissing off a large chunk of his support base.

None of this makes sense. What makes a team a National team? only competing at home and nowhere else? No. 

Lowering costs is a la la land thought. You're away with the fairies again.

There is no way you can lower costs while allowing design freedom. Its just not reality. They could pick Opti's or P-Class boats and teams would still find ways to spend 100's of millions of dollars to win.

The only way to lower costs is to make it a strict one design competition, and NO. The AC is not, has never been and never will be a one design competition.

You either allow open design and accept high cost or eliminate open design and cheapen the Americas Cup. You can't have open design and low cost. Its just not possible. Its a nice thought, but impossible in practice.

Time to get with the real world.

You know what brings back that support base? WINNING.

 

[Rennmaus]

None of this makes sense. What makes a team a National team? only competing at home and nowhere else? No. 

Lowering costs is a la la land thought. You're away with the fairies again.

There is no way you can lower costs while allowing design freedom. Its just not reality. They could pick Opti's or P-Class boats and teams would still find ways to spend 100's of millions of dollars to win.

The only way to lower costs is to make it a strict one design competition, and NO. The AC is not, has never been and never will be a one design competition.

You either allow open design and accept high cost or eliminate open design and cheapen the Americas Cup. You can't have open design and low cost. Its just not possible. Its a nice thought, but impossible in practice.

Time to get with the real world.

You know what brings back that support base? WINNING.

Open design? The current class is not open design, or could a team show up with a trimaran? 

It is a super expensive box rule that has an enormous participation (not even winning) cost. Hence the low entry number and T(NZ)'s money struggles. 

 

[Gissie]

Open design? The current class is not open design, or could a team show up with a trimaran? 

It is a super expensive box rule that has an enormous participation (not even winning) cost. Hence the low entry number and T(NZ)'s money struggles. 

That also needs large parts to be one design, despite one design having nothing to do with the AC.

 

[barfy]

Open design? The current class is not open design, or could a team show up with a trimaran? 

It is a super expensive box rule that has an enormous participation (not even winning) cost. Hence the low entry number and T(NZ)'s money struggles. 

Compared to the two cycles of cats we got boats that looked different, foils that were visibly different from a distance, and boats that could sail angles never before seen on a hulled craft. The crew space was well enclosed and safer by all accounts from the sailors than the cats.

They are super expensive, but I think tnz's money problems come primarily because of their naming sponsor sinking in the mud along with every airline. And most businesses in NZ at the moment.

The Covid strategy was a delay and learn game, the delay is over, we'll see if the education helps with the final carnage count but now is the time when we pay the piper.

 

[Stingray~]

There’s a great deal of things I love about the AC75s (glad I’m not paying the bills of course) and I hope the class goes through 3 or more good evolutions. 
 

The current ‘problem’ (few competitors, no venue, money problems for GD) strikes me as solvable if he’d just run a stripped down event in Aukland again, very much like AC36, instead of having lofty goals of something much bigger. 

 

[Rennmaus]

There’s a great deal of things I love about the AC75s (glad I’m not paying the bills of course) and I hope the class goes through 3 or more good evolutions. 
 

The current ‘problem’ (few competitors, no venue, money problems for GD) strikes me as solvable if he’d just run a stripped down event in Aukland again, very much like AC36, instead of having lofty goals of something much bigger. 

Many solutions could be applied to keep the Cup in AKL, but most (all) of them require some patriotism and humility by GD. Yes, I used "patriotism" + "humility" and "GD" in one sentence - my bad.

 

[Stingray~]

Many solutions could be applied to keep the Cup in AKL, but most (all) of them require some patriotism and humility by GD. Yes, I used "patriotism" + "humility" and "GD" in one sentence - my bad.

I give GD credit for some of his characteristics but damn, the way he so viciously shot down the home-town efforts to run it again in Aukland, humiliating everyone with insults, may have been a shot into his own foot. The NZ and AUK entities also seem alert to the no-oversight, open-checkbook demands  and don’t appear likely to cave. GD may well need to face reality on that front come soon, he’s knocking on foreign doors without success. 

 

[dogwatch]

instead of having lofty goals of something much bigger. 

I see no sign of "lofty goals of something much bigger". If you mean the 40 footers, they are likely to be a positive cash flow to TNZ from other teams.

 

[NeedAClew]

For said "especially here" look up definitions. Dictionary says specially is synonymous. Did say NZ was special.

 

[NeedAClew]

Problem is, club and country that won the Cup can't afford a defense.  Could be any number of reasons but that's the bottom line. 

Maybe that's why Australia clubs don't challenge anymore. If so, wise choice.

Think of the problems if S+S had been the last boat floating and won.

 

[Stingray~]

I see no sign of "lofty goals of something much bigger". If you mean the 40 footers, they are likely to be a positive cash flow to TNZ from other teams.

I like the 40s too, although if they like the 75s are advertised including bowsprits they could be only 38’ or so LWL; maybe a deed-legal 44’ LWL would have been the smarter fall-back position given, ahem, the Defender’s obviously-week circumstances now..

By ‘lofty goals’ I was suggesting that GD and whoever else any ‘brain trust’ at ETNZ thinking they can grow the event, rather than maintain the status quo at best, 

 

[Rennmaus]

Problem is, club and country that won the Cup can't afford a defense.  Could be any number of reasons but that's the bottom line. 

Maybe that's why Australia clubs don't challenge anymore. If so, wise choice.

Think of the problems if S+S had been the last boat floating and won.

Club and country that won the Cup may not be able to defend successfully or set-up a money making machine (haha), but they are able to defend. RNZYS could write a class rule/protocol that mandates 44ft Opties or whatever cheap boat can be built in country, make it a 1:1 match without a CSS, TV, regatta village etc., get any sailor on board (not the ones asking for horrendous salaries), and all you need in addition are a couple of buoys, some officials (RNZYS should have them) and off you go.
Even S+S could do this.

 

[Stingray~]

 

[enigmatically2]

@Rennmausexcept they have signed an agreement with Ineos/RYS that it will be in AC75s. Can't see why they would allow it to be in oppies.

RNZY and GD could defend in AKL in either of their existing boats though. Spend what money they have on foils and sails. Probably not even much of a handicap

 

[Stingray~]

The Deed says something about how you can’t challenge using the same yacht again. Presumably that clause pertains only to only yachts (since CSS series’ began in ‘70) that raced for the Match. It may not matter to today but just to throw it out there: 

How much if any modification would an (example) Prada Luna Rossa have to undergo to be a ‘different’ Challenger?

 

[Xlot]

NZY and GD could defend in AKL in either of their existing boats though. Spend what money they have on foils and sails. Probably not even much of a handicap

Exactly. And they’d probably have spare change to give Te Rehutai a facelift, perhaps along the lines outlined by @Raptorsailor

If you were to improve the hull of Te Rehutai, here's what I would do. Based on my gut feeling and zero experience in aerodynamics. Although I am very interested in it, maybe I understand it better than the average joe... idk, aerodynamics is so fucking complicated. Anyway here goes. 

View attachment 468204

-'pinch' the stern around the blue lines to reduce surface area, a bit like Prada B2.

-increase the radius of the edge around the yellow line to reduce pressure around that area when tacking/gybing, creating a smoother transition for the air that's not doing anything to the air around the cockpits and middle part where work is being done to the air. 

-Smooth/blend the entire area in the orange box for a similar reason as above. To further reduce the drag as the wind ain't coming straight on. The problem here is the sharp edge in that box is there for a reason: to help air go underneath the hull. Careful balance to be made here, 

-Increase the surface area of the purple line to increase its ability to float and relieve the foils of some of the workload. 

-Make the edge around the red line sharper to create a nice teardrop shape for the skeg from a top-down view, and to better seal that area.

And will come with bigger pie warmers so you can have more pie per unit pie so you can pie while you pie.