Alinghi Challenge AC37

rh3000

rh3000

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Gissie said:
Fair enough. So can you come up with a sensible explanation for Emirates staying as lead sponsor, yet the team has no money.

Bnottrying to throw shit, but hard to see how Emirates could keep the spot and turn off the cash flow at the same time. If there was no contractual reason they would have been kicked to the kerb by now. Plus Dalts would have been schmoozing other big name sponsors. Instead he is trying to squeeze a venue to pay for everything.
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I can't imagine Emirates having anywhere near the largess it had pre-covid to maintain a similar level of sponsorship than it did last time.

I could easily imagine they are no longer sponsors at all, or severely diminished but still present as a mutual show of good-faith.

The suggestion of missing 'contractual targets' is the part I was poking holes in.

Getting sponsors is now hard (https://sponsorship.org/resources/the-future-of-the-sports-industry-in-a-post-covid-world-mediacom-se/, https://www.warc.com/newsandopinion/opinion/how-sponsorship-marketing-can-rediscover-its-stride-in-2021/en-gb/3958) (just ask SGP), especially when you don't even have a venue locked in. If you can get a venue/host to cover the major costs then thats a great start.

 
pusslicker

pusslicker

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accnick said:
Here is the wording from the Deed:

"No vessel which has been defeated in a match for this Cup can be again selected by any club as its representative until after a contest for it by some other vessel has intervened, or until after the expiration of two years from the time of such defeat. And when a challenge from a Club fulfilling all the conditions required by this instrument has been received, no other challenge can be considered until the pending event has been decided."

The Deed doesn't say when a "vessel" is considered to be a new vessel. Generally, the Protocol for each Cup sets limits on the number of hulls that can be built by a team, as well as limits on the amount of permitted modification. Traditionally, if modifications to a hull exceed the Protocol-defined limits, that hull is considered to be a new hull. 

To the best of my knowledge, that has never been litigated. Generally, teams are trying to stay within the modification limits to avoid being classed as having a "new" hull.

Because two years are likely to have passed since the defeat of LR boat 2 before  the first match of the next Cup, they could select to use that boat without modification in the next Match if they wanted to.
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Ok this makes more sense, because Australia lost 2 matches in a row in '77 and 80.

 
G

Gissie

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rh3000 said:
I can't imagine Emirates having anywhere near the largess it had pre-covid to maintain a similar level of sponsorship than it did last time.

I could easily imagine they are no longer sponsors at all, or severely diminished but still present as a mutual show of good-faith.

The suggestion of missing 'contractual targets' is the part I was poking holes in.

Getting sponsors is now hard (https://sponsorship.org/resources/the-future-of-the-sports-industry-in-a-post-covid-world-mediacom-se/, https://www.warc.com/newsandopinion/opinion/how-sponsorship-marketing-can-rediscover-its-stride-in-2021/en-gb/3958) (just ask SGP), especially when you don't even have a venue locked in. If you can get a venue/host to cover the major costs then thats a great start.
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The only problem I have with Emirates not having money is why are they still their? The NZ Government and Auckland gave it a shot, they where immediately kicked to the kerb. Sorry, not enough we are off. So why is Emirates not getting the same treatment. Why would Dalts give them a free ride rather than kicking them to the kerb and putting up the sponsor wants sign.

Doesn't pass the smell test to me. The team doesn't give stuff away for free, no matter the history. I guess the only reason would be they see Emirates as a much better friend than Kiwi ever was to them.

 
shebeen

shebeen

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dg_sailingfan said:
DISAGREE, Alinghi Challenge for AC37 is DEAD...

From an Article by Richard Gladwell, Sail-World/NZ

"A new Crew Nationality Rule will require 100% of the race crew for each competitor to either be a passport holder of the country the team's yacht club as at March 19 2021, or to have been physically present in that country (or, acting on behalf of such yacht club in Auckland, the venue of the AC36 Events) for two of the previous three years before March 18 2021. As an exception to this requirement, there will be a discretionary provision allowing a quota of non-nationals on the race crew for competitors from "Emerging Nations".

The only way a sailor of fortune can shift to a foreign team is under the Emerging Nations category. Only when the new Protocol is announced can it precisely determined what constitutes an "Emerging Nation." The matter is likely to be determined on a case by case basis, with the two Royals or ETNZ reserving the right to accept an Entry/Challenge from an "Emerging" team.

Emirates Team NZ are unlikely to leave the classification of an Emerging Nation matter open to the deliberations of a yet to be appointed Arbitration Panel to interpret the Emerging Nations Protocol rule.

A more straightforward approach is to reserve for themselves the right to accept/ decline entries, not in compliance with the 100% nationality requirement for sailing crew, or set conditions on their entry.

So, what does this mean for Alinghi & Ernesto? I means it will be up to Team New Zealand or the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron if they accept Ernesto/Alinghi as "Emerging Nation". It's in the hands of ETNZ/RNZYS if Alinghi can challenge for the Cup.
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So the protocol comes out, and it is strict on the nationality thing.

Surely all the countries who can't be emerging nations would need to be spelled out in advance, or would it case by case (and then very subjective!). World Sailing, already have a classification but i doubt any of those countries are likely to throw a challenge together themselves. https://www.sailing.org/sailors/enp/index.php

It would then require a rich guy with a squad of "mercenaries" looking for a flag to sail under. 

So you might end up with the ridiculous scenario of team Ailinghi sailing for (eg) an Indian yacht club. The other option is the passport clause. while they most definitely do not give out swiss passports that easily, you just need to find a country with a passport program (eg. Malta) that you could run your team through.

Either way. if Ernie decides to run as a an (eg) Indian team or a (eg) Maltese team he could still throw a chequebook at kiwi sailors. I'm sure he'd much rather have it under a swiss flag, but the ridiculousness of it would be the egg on Dalton's face by forcing his hand to go this way..

 
S

sunseeker

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Forourselves said:
Enough with these bullshit comments. I'll own you every time, so don't try and pretend to be some tough guy that by your own admission "only talks this way on here" because that in itself just makes you look like some immature, insecure little shithead that has to pretend to be a tough a guy on the internet because he isn't one in real life.
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Gee, sounds like I’ve gotten under your skin with you saying enough with these comments.

I actually feel sorry for you. No one with a sense of self would blather on and on about how winning is so important as to nullify everything else.

I’ve sailed and worked with a bunch of kiwis, the vast majority being really decent people. You, on the other hand, sound utterly deranged, completely self-absorbed and seem to think that if RNZYS wins the AC again it somehow makes you superior to everyone else.

You might want to remember the Elvstrom quote, because while RNZYS has won the AC, Dalton has now clearly lost a significant amount of respect. Of course, he doesn’t care about respect, he just cares about money.

You, maybe more than anyone in this AC forum, make this place unreadable. 
 

So go on, keep thinking you own me, you don’t have a clue who I am.

Seriously, step back from your Dalton/AC crack pipe. No one here takes you seriously, and you embarrass the decent kiwis on this site. 
 

You are just the loud, lonely, obnoxious drunk at the end of the bar that people can’t figure out how to get of.

 
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J

JALhazmat

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It’s clear that emerging nations can field hired guns on the sailing team. 
 

Evil Ernie isn’t a nation, he is an individual, a yacht club in an emerging nation could quite easily get chatted up by Ernie fulfil every emerging nation criteria and then say for arguments sake hire The Dolfin defenders with enough cash to see them set for life. 
 

The “rules” as written can’t exclude that, nothing that has been published prohibits a yacht club from obtaining backing from an individual outside of their borders, as it’s a challenge between yacht clubs that’s the bit that matters. 
 

Bye bye P&B

 
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G

Gissie

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JALhazmat said:
It’s clear that emerging nations can field hired guns on the sailing team. 
 

Evil Ernie isn’t a nation, he is an individual, a yacht club in an emerging nation could quite easily get chatted up by Ernie fulfil every emerging nation criteria and then say for arguments sake hire The Dolfin defenders with enough cash to see them set for life. 
 

The “rules” as written can’t exclude that, nothing that has been published prohibits a yacht club from obtaining backing from an individual outside of their borders, as it’s a challenge between yacht clubs that’s the bit that matters. 
 

Bye bye P&B
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So at the extreme we could have an NZ team defending in a country that has a challenging team run by Ernie. :lol:

 
J

JALhazmat

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You could have two New Zealander’s  plus other mercenaries and nationals of the challenging YC all funded by Ernie without it being a Swiss entry 

you know like having Emirates as the headline sponsor, naming rights and pumping in the cash but it was definitely totally a NZ challenge  as that’s  where the YC is based 

could be fun 

 
Forourselves

Forourselves

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sunseeker said:
Gee, sounds like I’ve gotten under your skin with you saying enough with these comments.

I actually feel sorry for you. No one with a sense of self would blather on and on about how winning is so important as to nullify everything else.

I’ve sailed and worked with a bunch of kiwis, the vast majority being really decent people. You, on the other hand, sound utterly deranged, completely self-absorbed and seem to think that if RNZYS wins the AC again it somehow makes you superior to everyone else.

You might want to remember the Elvstrom quote, because while RNZYS has won the AC, Dalton has now clearly lost a significant amount of respect. Of course, he doesn’t care about respect, he just cares about money.

You, maybe more than anyone in this AC forum, make this place unreadable. 
 

So go on, keep thinking you own me, you don’t have a clue who I am.

Seriously, step back from your Dalton/AC crack pipe. No one here takes you seriously, and you embarrass the decent kiwis on this site. 
 

You are just the loud, lonely, obnoxious drunk at the end of the bar that people can’t figure out how to get of.
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Blah blah blah. When your team wins something you can talk. Until then, you’re just a loud mouth loser that has to bag on me cos his own team can’t win a damn thing (cue the I don’t have a team) yeah we’ll that just makes you a loud mouth loser with no balls.

Seriously, you can say what you want about Kiwi’s and I don’t give a shit about what you or anyone else thinks of me because everyone here is an anonymous Internet poster anyway! You’ve worked with Kiwis before? Wooptie fucking doo! I bet I’ve worked with more Kiwis than you have and they al say the same damn thing. To the winner go the spoils. So I’ll l be the one standing on the dock waving the NZ flag cheering the NZ team on when we win like I always have, and you’ll be the one crying and bitching about Dalts when he wins - again. Like the loser you are. 

 
G

Gissie

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trt131 said:
Is that why Jacinta wants to give NZ back to the Maoris.  I think the pakehas won.
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There is no plan to give NZ back to the Maoris. 50% plus a deciding vote, maybe, but not the lot.

As for Pakeha winning, there was never a white/brown fight. So no win/lose situation.

 
S

sunseeker

Super Anarchist
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Forourselves said:
Blah blah blah. When your team wins something you can talk. Until then, you’re just a loud mouth loser that has to bag on me cos his own team can’t win a damn thing (cue the I don’t have a team) yeah we’ll that just makes you a loud mouth loser with no balls.

Seriously, you can say what you want about Kiwi’s and I don’t give a shit about what you or anyone else thinks of me because everyone here is an anonymous Internet poster anyway! You’ve worked with Kiwis before? Wooptie fucking doo! I bet I’ve worked with more Kiwis than you have and they al say the same damn thing. To the winner go the spoils. So I’ll l be the one standing on the dock waving the NZ flag cheering the NZ team on when we win like I always have, and you’ll be the one crying and bitching about Dalts when he wins - again. Like the loser you are. 
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Please seek help.

 
E

enigmatically2

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JALhazmat said:
gonna be a the only option the way the cards are falling currently, Grant being EBs errand boy, that should be a good show 

although naming rights would be EBRBTNZ
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Take a leaf from 4's book and re-purpose.

A venue announcement no longer means announcing a venue, but announcing a delay to the announcement of a venue.

Similarly ETNZ now means "Ernesto's Team of Needy Zooxanthellae"

Orwell would have approved

Zooxanthallae are marine invertebrates that live symbiotically within larger organisms, so is quite appropriate

 
Forourselves

Forourselves

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enigmatically2 said:
Take a leaf from 4's book and re-purpose.

A venue announcement no longer means announcing a venue, but announcing a delay to the announcement of a venue.

Similarly ETNZ now means "Ernesto's Team of Needy Zooxanthellae"

Orwell would have approved

Zooxanthallae are marine invertebrates that live symbiotically within larger organisms, so is quite appropriate
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Blah blah blah. Who cares. To the winner go the spoils. Crying about it makes no difference. We run the show. You’re merely a passenger. A spectator. A silent minority lol

 
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