Alinghi Challenge AC37

[Nauti Buoy]

Drama much? All types of boats can get flattened or worse under bare poles in a squall. I found myself on a Corsair under bare pole in sustained 35 knots (gusting higher) once (after reefing etc, it was still too much sail, so we ended up taking everything down. not an easy task) and even with just the profiled mast alone it was a handful.

Then why did TNZ pretend they were more seaworthy? They don’t need to be, this is formula 1 on the water (literally now), they tried to pitch them as much better than the cats for this reason, which was not even close to true. Still needs big support crews, and now they need a $2M speciality support boat.

 

[atwinda]

More seaworthy than what exactly?

While there have only been a handful of ac 75s capsize events (and only one while racing), we do know that ENTZ has capsized both of their ac75s and continued to sail them on that day. AM b2 is the only AC75 to sustain damage from a capsize event (until Alinghi yesterday), and even then that damage was a result of the crash, not the capsize itself.

Turning to the previous AC50s, again only one capsize while racing, but several training capsizes occurred, and if we extend that to the current F50 fleet where someone capsizes at almost every event. How many times do those boats get righted and keep sailing that day? Virtually never. The fragile wing gets damaged and they tow the boats in reverse back to the shed for days and nights of repairs.

Looking further back to the AC72s, Oracle almost lost an entire boat in a capsize, and Artemis lost an entire boat and a life.

It's should be obvious then, that of the modern high-performance AC classes, the AC75s have proven most robust to capsizes.

If you want to consider the IACC boats, more than one lost a keel and capsized or broke in half and sank, thus ending their day on the water.

So I would say, that ETNZ don't have to pretend the AC75 rule produces a more seaworthy (than previous cup boats) boat, they've proved it by putting boat their AC75s in the drink and continuing on that days sailing operations.

 

[Forourselves]

Then why did TNZ pretend they were more seaworthy? They don’t need to be, this is formula 1 on the water (literally now), they tried to pitch them as much better than the cats for this reason, which was not even close to true. Still needs big support crews, and now they need a $2M speciality support boat.

Because a boat with one hull is more seaworthy than a boat with two hulls and a wing.
Had that been an AC50/ F50, there would have been catastrophic damage.

 

[Stingray~]

I wonder how and why Alinghi BZ suffered even hull damage in this incident?

 

[Nauti Buoy]

Because a boat with one hull is more seaworthy than a boat with two hulls and a wing.
Had that been an AC50/ F50, there would have been catastrophic damage.

And better racing.
Again AC isn’t about seaworthiness.

 

[atwinda]

I wonder how and why Alinghi BZ suffered even hull damage in this incident?

I thought it said damage to a foil.. which I had assumed would have been caused by either the tow line during the capsize or the tow line as a result of righting the boat. But that's purely a WAG.

 

[Forourselves]

And better racing.
Again AC isn’t about seaworthiness.

Ya can't race a boat thats in hundreds of pieces.

 

[Monkey]

Trickle indeed. https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2022/08/25/photos-storm-damage-in-corsica/

incase you were unaware boats getting flattened in lots of wind has become pretty regular recently…

They didn’t even have foils, were at anchor and more stable than the AC yachts… whatever next.

I’m more interested in if it self-righted. That’s the most ideal situation you’re going to get.

 

[barfy]

I’m more interested in if it self-righted. That’s the most ideal situation you’re going to get.

Or at least only needed to be pulled head to wind like most of the other AC75 oopsies.

 

[Monkey]

Or at least only needed to be pulled head to wind like most of the other AC75 oopsies.

I didn’t even mean that in a bad way. Just genuinely curious if they can actually self right as “required.” I have no problem with needing a tug to get head to wind.

 

[Chobani Sailor]

I didn’t even mean that in a bad way. Just genuinely curious if they can actually self right as “required.” I have no problem with needing a tug to get head to wind.

The AC75s do not have the capabilities of self-righting. That was evident during all the capsizes in AC36 training. They stopped marketing that early on in the last campaign when design didn't translate to reality.

 

[Monkey]

The AC75s do not have the capabilities of self-righting. That was evident during all the capsizes in AC36 training. They stopped marketing that early on in the last campaign when design didn't translate to reality.

That’s why I was curious. Alinghi went over in the most ideal “just pass the test” configuration possible. Foils down, not a sail in sight.

 

[Stingray~]

I thought it said damage to a foil.. which I had assumed would have been caused by either the tow line during the capsize or the tow line as a result of righting the boat. But that's purely a WAG.

The Alinghi statement (included in the RG link above somewhere) said they also suffered hull damage. Hellifiknow... If the foil took damage then maybe that involved stress to the hull too, is my best guess WAG.
Will be interesting to see how soon they can make it out again.

The photo of them sailing (but not foiling) is interesting in part for how the hills in the distance above BCN were obviously getting hammered by a storm, I bet they take more care in the future.

 

[barfy]

I didn’t even mean that in a bad way. Just genuinely curious if they can actually self right as “required.” I have no problem with needing a tug to get head to wind.

Yup,I was interested in some more info as well. One day we'll get the "need for speed " show I guess.
Edit: I'm guessing as they had a tow line on that would have been the play. Unless there was a snag on an appendage, then it would have been a learning experience.

 

[Monkey]

Yup,I was interested in some more info as well. One day we'll get the "need for speed " show I guess.
Edit: I'm guessing as they had a tow line on that would have been the play. Unless there was a snag on an appendage, then it would have been a learning experience.

That’s what I want to know. With sails up, my boat will happily stay pinned on its side. Open 60’s go through self righting tests with the same criteria. They all make it upright. It’s obvious from the pictures Alinghi has both foils down and zero sails up. No fault to them, regardless. This was the original boat built to the rule. It’d be a wee bit embarrassing if it didn’t pop up on its own.

 

[Terry Hollis]

That’s why I was curious. Alinghi went over in the most ideal “just pass the test” configuration possible. Foils down, not a sail in sight.

In the photo the port foil is not in the optimum position for stability, they say the port foil was damaged but it is not clear if the damage caused to the foil contributed to the capsize or was a result of the capsize.

 

[Monkey]

In the photo the port foil is not in the optimum position for stability, they say the port foil was damaged but it is not clear if the damage caused to the foil contributed to the capsize or was a result of the capsize.

Actually, all their cute diagrams from early on show that it was self righting with both foils down. That’s the case with Alinghi.

 

[Priscilla]

All types of boats can get flattened or worse under bare poles in a squall.

Exactly and it even happens to 50% ballasted lead mines.
The D section on the AC75 is 650mm long 400mm wide presenting quite a lot of windage when she came onto the wind whilst being towed in a squall that's all.

 

[JALhazmat]

That’s what I want to know. With sails up, my boat will happily stay pinned on its side. Open 60’s go through self righting tests with the same criteria. They all make it upright. It’s obvious from the pictures Alinghi has both foils down and zero sails up. No fault to them, regardless. This was the original boat built to the rule. It’d be a wee bit embarrassing if it didn’t pop up on its own.

No it’s not the original boat as it’s been modified/refitted , nor is it confirming to the rule.

basics like different foils on each side make it non compliant instantly

 

[shebeen]

In the photo the port foil is not in the optimum position for stability, they say the port foil was damaged but it is not clear if the damage caused to the foil contributed to the capsize or was a result of the capsize.

Really? surely fully down is maximum self righting moment, as if it were a keel.

stating the obvious clearly, but for a point of discussion - my little sketch of a much more complicated scenario with the orange up arrow the fulcrum of sorts. The simple concept is that the boat should come back up under these conditions if there's no breeze. Throw windage on the mast and there's a threshold where it won't self right. it just looks like they were out beyond that limit. and then once water gets into the hull it changes everything.

would be nice to know how long it took to right, and how it was achieved.