All things Class40
- Thread starter furler49
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #62
The Race Around adds a solo class - seems this race is building momentum.
https://www.sail-world.com/news/235986/Sam-Holliday-on-The-Race-Arounds-new-solo-class?source=twitter&fbclid=IwAR2hSo3sBaQlLstknYPixKGHv5-KW4ZshDbzSXyCE_fSYyjsaHg0wW6kzCE
https://www.sail-world.com/news/235986/Sam-Holliday-on-The-Race-Arounds-new-solo-class?source=twitter&fbclid=IwAR2hSo3sBaQlLstknYPixKGHv5-KW4ZshDbzSXyCE_fSYyjsaHg0wW6kzCE
Vincent DePillis
Super Anarchist
Question for the Class 40 knowledgeable: I have been told that some (many?) class 40s use a structural jib furler and simply lash the head of the jib to the top swivel. You need to take the sail down, you go up the mast.
I have discussed doing this on my own boat (an f31 tri) with a number of knowledgeable sailors here in the PNW, and the reaction has been.... cautious. I suspect that they are being polite, while thinking that I have a screw loose. They always bring up the issue of "what happens if the furler fails, and you can't get the sail down".
This worry seems to be codified in the safety equipment regulations promulgated by US Sailing (and largely copied by my local organizing authorities): Section 3.35 says: "A boat shall not be rigged with any halyard that requires a person to go aloft in order to lower a sail". This in contrast to the Offshore Special Regulations promulgated by World Sailing, which now say, in Section 3.25(b) "No halyard shall be locked lashed or otherwise secured to the mast in a way that requires a person to go aloft in order to lower a sail in a controlled manner, except for a headsail in use with a furling device."
Does any one know if it is true that this form of structural furler is used the the Class 40s, and if so, have there been any problems that would justify what appears to be a prohibition of the lashed head structural furler by US Sailing?
Has anyone made a run at getting US Sailing to change their rule to track the World sailing rule?
I have discussed doing this on my own boat (an f31 tri) with a number of knowledgeable sailors here in the PNW, and the reaction has been.... cautious. I suspect that they are being polite, while thinking that I have a screw loose. They always bring up the issue of "what happens if the furler fails, and you can't get the sail down".
This worry seems to be codified in the safety equipment regulations promulgated by US Sailing (and largely copied by my local organizing authorities): Section 3.35 says: "A boat shall not be rigged with any halyard that requires a person to go aloft in order to lower a sail". This in contrast to the Offshore Special Regulations promulgated by World Sailing, which now say, in Section 3.25(b) "No halyard shall be locked lashed or otherwise secured to the mast in a way that requires a person to go aloft in order to lower a sail in a controlled manner, except for a headsail in use with a furling device."
Does any one know if it is true that this form of structural furler is used the the Class 40s, and if so, have there been any problems that would justify what appears to be a prohibition of the lashed head structural furler by US Sailing?
Has anyone made a run at getting US Sailing to change their rule to track the World sailing rule?
I think Open60s do it, too. If I remember correctly Boris Herrmann had to climb his mast to sort out furler issues. I would carefully look at the benefits vs disadvantages. What do you gain?
38°59'N
Member
Structural furling forestays with lashed J1s are common in Class 40 though some boats are going back to hanks and a halyard. I believe that the advantages of the structural furling vs traditional furling are weight and perhaps some simplicity. Not being able to lower the sail from the deck is, of course, the obvious disadvantage.
The structural cables also have a shorter life vs a rod forestay and traditional furling (e.g. 2-3 years with a potential for a renewal with an inspection for the cable).
The structural cables also have a shorter life vs a rod forestay and traditional furling (e.g. 2-3 years with a potential for a renewal with an inspection for the cable).
Vincent DePillis
Super Anarchist
Lashed head set up should reduce cost, windage, and weight relative to other furling set-ups. I found an older rail meat post about the use of a lashed j1 on his class 40 (Dragon), and he said that getting good luff tension with a luff tackle was not that easy. I am just thinking through what it will entail to get some additional luff tension as the wind rises-- i.e. go to the bow, try to hand tension a 4:1 tackle, and some how cleat it off and then stow the tail of the tackle. Couple of cranks on a winch is a LOT quicker and easier...
As for the life of the structural cable-- that 2-3 year life for a $2500 cable would really not be acceptable to me. Nor am I going to take the cable down and ship it overseas to the manufacturer for an inspection every couple of years.
It would be really good to have some real world reports about cable life. That kind of cable life (if true) makes the Colligo dux torque rope cable look really attractive. I have a great deal of confidence in the longevity of dyneema based cable. (note that this is not the garden variety heat stretched dyneema, but rather a purpose constructed, non spliceable torque cable. Only issue is that the clamps used to terminate it are pretty herky.)
As for the life of the structural cable-- that 2-3 year life for a $2500 cable would really not be acceptable to me. Nor am I going to take the cable down and ship it overseas to the manufacturer for an inspection every couple of years.
It would be really good to have some real world reports about cable life. That kind of cable life (if true) makes the Colligo dux torque rope cable look really attractive. I have a great deal of confidence in the longevity of dyneema based cable. (note that this is not the garden variety heat stretched dyneema, but rather a purpose constructed, non spliceable torque cable. Only issue is that the clamps used to terminate it are pretty herky.)
Boats I've sailed with tack down systems, (if you have a halyard lock for example) they usually come back to the pit. So you'd be winch and constrictor or clutch.
Vincent DePillis
Super Anarchist
Palanad is visiting Hamble at the moment, it’s the first time I’ve seen one of the new scow generation 40s and I couldn’t get over the size of the bow area. Also how low they’ve managed to get the CoG. Other things I like include the coachroof covered with a giant solar panel. Mighty impressive thing- Thread starter
- #71
Tip and Shaft interview with Axel Tréhin - seems the 2023 round the world race is exciting some of the serious pros!
Tip and Shaft: (translation done by google translate!)
AXEL TRÉHIN: "THE POSSIBLE TOUR OF THE WORLD MAKES ME DREAM"
After almost a decade in the Mini Class, punctuated by a second place in proto on the 2019 Mini Transat, Axel Tréhin started in the Class40, having since January the second Max 40 (Reason Plan) launched. Before his very first race, the Normandy Channel Race (started on May 30) that he runs with Frédéric Denis, Tip & Shaft spoke with the skipper of Project Rescue Ocean.
How did you get started in a mini?
After my baccalaureate, I did a composite license and bought a first mini in 2010 that I took a long time to retype and on which I managed to do the Mini Transat in 2013. Then, I had the opportunity to recover Sébastien Rogues' old boat that was wrecked, the 716, with which I started with nine months of construction before continuing nine less sailing until the 2015 Mini Transat, which I finished frustrated, 6th in the second stage, for a 4th final place in the general standings. The logical continuation was to build a "real" project, complete, with a new boat, which I took fifteen months to build, essentially alone, and which immediately worked well: I made nine podiums in almost as many pre-season races, which allowed me to arrive much more ready on the 2019 Mini Transat, with in addition to partners, found three months before the start. In the end, I finished second, it was a great project of which I keep a lot of positive.
You only did proto, why?
On my first Mini, it was clearly an economical choice, I didn't have a radish, I bought the boat 4,000 euros. Afterwards, I liked the idea of sailing with a pendulum keel, asymmetrical fins, a tilting mast, much like in Imoca. I thought this aspect was super nice "I have an idea, I implement it from A to Z. ”
At the end of the Mini Class, those who want to continue in competitive sailing often have the choice between the Figaro and the Class40, why did you opt for the latter?
It was a bit of the choice of the heart: when I was a kid, I dreamed of the Route du Rhum, not really the Solitaire du Figaro, and the most accessible support to do the Route du Rhum is the Class40. Afterwards, there is the technical aspect that makes it possible to get involved on these boats in a way quite different from the Figaro where the idea is to touch nothing. There is probably also some pride, in the sense that I would still like to try the Figaro one day because it's the reference series, but when I feel ready to do it well, I still need to learn before. Finally, there is the possibility of going around the world in Class40 that makes me dream.
Thinking of The Race Around in 2023?
Yes, it's very envying. Afterwards, I will ask myself more concretely the question after the Transat Jacques Vabre, because I really want to do things in order. But it's sure that in the evening when I fall asleep, I think about it, it's part of the projects I imagine presenting to my partners for the future.
"The Max 40 allows a passage
in the easier sea"
How did you start your project and structure your budget?
We started building a boat with an investor when we knew we would be able to complete part of the operating budget. I immediately started working in my workshop on pieces of structure, but there was no question of me doing the hull and deck, which I entrusted to JPS.We launched the boat on January 23, in an ideal timing, because we have had time since then to try it in different configurations of sails and weather conditions, I have the feeling that we have taken the measure. As for the operating budget, it was built from the beginning of construction, in June 2020, until June 2023, in all, it's a little more than 750,000 euros. Today, we have two-thirds of them, we are actively looking to complete the last third.
Why did you choose a David Raison plan?
First of all, because it was built at JPS, I really chose a builder/architect couple. Then, when I had to decide, the choice was essentially limited to the Manuard plan or the Reason plan, I opted for the second because it is more rocky, allowing an easier passage into the sea. My experience of the mini tells me that it is more suitable for the deckchairs that await me and it is also a Class40 that remains very versatile for the other races of the season. Now, the boats are very close, even the Mach 3 which remain formidable in many areas, especially those whose brions have been cut, such as Luke Berry's.
Did you surround yourself to take control of the boat?
Yes, as we launched it very early and were almost the only ones to sail, many people were available, it allowed me to embark sailors of different profiles: Kevin Escoffier, Thomas Coville, Nico Troussel, Vincent Riou, Yoann Richomme, François Jambou, coach Tanguy Leglatin... It was really interesting, because it allowed me to have a lot of feedback in all areas, from overall project management to small technical details on the boat. When people of this stature get on board, you have to be studious, it's worth taking notes, all these feedbacks have made me progress.
"On environmental issues,
I find that there is a lot of inertia"
Why choose Frédéric Denis as co-skipper on the Normandy Channel Race, then on the Transat Jacques Vabre?
First of all because he is a very close friend, we won the Mini Fastnet in 2018 together, we know how we work on water, so it's the assurance that it will go well. Then, because he is an excellent regattaman, he has a lot of experience on many different supports, he hasn't fallen asleep since his victory in the 2015 Mini! He is also a great engineer, very focused on embedded systems and especially pilots. The more I can draw on his expertise, the more I get ahead of next year during which I will be a little more solo flying on my own.
The logical continuation of the Class40 is often the Imoca and the Vendée Globe, is that already a goal for you?
I am very interested in the idea of going around the world, that of doing it in race, solo and non-stop even more, so yes, I would like to. When I was doing Mini, I thought the Class40 were big boats, while the Imoca, you shouldn't even think about it; now that I'm in Class40, I think it seems playable, the scale ratio changes as you gain as you get. After that, we now have Class40s that go at crazy speed, very close to the performance of older generations of Imoca, and when we compare the ecological impact by making a Class40 or making an Imoca, there is reason to ask ourselves questions...
Precisely, you defend the colors of an environmental protection association, do you think that offshore racing does enough on these issues?
I think she asks herself the right questions, lots of voices are raised with the desire to make a difference. It's a bit of our collective responsibility, if we want our children to be able to sail later, to take a turn now to ensure that we have less impact in our practice. Afterwards, I find that there is a lot of inertia, we meet a lot, we have a lot of discussions, but in the end quite little action. It's essentially for two reasons in my opinion: the first is because we still don't know what to start to tackle the problem; today, everyone does life cycle analyses, but it takes time, we have to collect the data, analyze them... So before pretending to say that we know, we have to have the answers and it takes time. Then there are also small mentality problems, it is a still very "young" cause, which does not yet permeate all strata of the population on the same scale, so to make a difference, we must convince everyone, it is not simple.
Tip and Shaft: (translation done by google translate!)
AXEL TRÉHIN: "THE POSSIBLE TOUR OF THE WORLD MAKES ME DREAM"
After almost a decade in the Mini Class, punctuated by a second place in proto on the 2019 Mini Transat, Axel Tréhin started in the Class40, having since January the second Max 40 (Reason Plan) launched. Before his very first race, the Normandy Channel Race (started on May 30) that he runs with Frédéric Denis, Tip & Shaft spoke with the skipper of Project Rescue Ocean.
How did you get started in a mini?
After my baccalaureate, I did a composite license and bought a first mini in 2010 that I took a long time to retype and on which I managed to do the Mini Transat in 2013. Then, I had the opportunity to recover Sébastien Rogues' old boat that was wrecked, the 716, with which I started with nine months of construction before continuing nine less sailing until the 2015 Mini Transat, which I finished frustrated, 6th in the second stage, for a 4th final place in the general standings. The logical continuation was to build a "real" project, complete, with a new boat, which I took fifteen months to build, essentially alone, and which immediately worked well: I made nine podiums in almost as many pre-season races, which allowed me to arrive much more ready on the 2019 Mini Transat, with in addition to partners, found three months before the start. In the end, I finished second, it was a great project of which I keep a lot of positive.
You only did proto, why?
On my first Mini, it was clearly an economical choice, I didn't have a radish, I bought the boat 4,000 euros. Afterwards, I liked the idea of sailing with a pendulum keel, asymmetrical fins, a tilting mast, much like in Imoca. I thought this aspect was super nice "I have an idea, I implement it from A to Z. ”
At the end of the Mini Class, those who want to continue in competitive sailing often have the choice between the Figaro and the Class40, why did you opt for the latter?
It was a bit of the choice of the heart: when I was a kid, I dreamed of the Route du Rhum, not really the Solitaire du Figaro, and the most accessible support to do the Route du Rhum is the Class40. Afterwards, there is the technical aspect that makes it possible to get involved on these boats in a way quite different from the Figaro where the idea is to touch nothing. There is probably also some pride, in the sense that I would still like to try the Figaro one day because it's the reference series, but when I feel ready to do it well, I still need to learn before. Finally, there is the possibility of going around the world in Class40 that makes me dream.
Thinking of The Race Around in 2023?
Yes, it's very envying. Afterwards, I will ask myself more concretely the question after the Transat Jacques Vabre, because I really want to do things in order. But it's sure that in the evening when I fall asleep, I think about it, it's part of the projects I imagine presenting to my partners for the future.
"The Max 40 allows a passage
in the easier sea"
How did you start your project and structure your budget?
We started building a boat with an investor when we knew we would be able to complete part of the operating budget. I immediately started working in my workshop on pieces of structure, but there was no question of me doing the hull and deck, which I entrusted to JPS.We launched the boat on January 23, in an ideal timing, because we have had time since then to try it in different configurations of sails and weather conditions, I have the feeling that we have taken the measure. As for the operating budget, it was built from the beginning of construction, in June 2020, until June 2023, in all, it's a little more than 750,000 euros. Today, we have two-thirds of them, we are actively looking to complete the last third.
Why did you choose a David Raison plan?
First of all, because it was built at JPS, I really chose a builder/architect couple. Then, when I had to decide, the choice was essentially limited to the Manuard plan or the Reason plan, I opted for the second because it is more rocky, allowing an easier passage into the sea. My experience of the mini tells me that it is more suitable for the deckchairs that await me and it is also a Class40 that remains very versatile for the other races of the season. Now, the boats are very close, even the Mach 3 which remain formidable in many areas, especially those whose brions have been cut, such as Luke Berry's.
Did you surround yourself to take control of the boat?
Yes, as we launched it very early and were almost the only ones to sail, many people were available, it allowed me to embark sailors of different profiles: Kevin Escoffier, Thomas Coville, Nico Troussel, Vincent Riou, Yoann Richomme, François Jambou, coach Tanguy Leglatin... It was really interesting, because it allowed me to have a lot of feedback in all areas, from overall project management to small technical details on the boat. When people of this stature get on board, you have to be studious, it's worth taking notes, all these feedbacks have made me progress.
"On environmental issues,
I find that there is a lot of inertia"
Why choose Frédéric Denis as co-skipper on the Normandy Channel Race, then on the Transat Jacques Vabre?
First of all because he is a very close friend, we won the Mini Fastnet in 2018 together, we know how we work on water, so it's the assurance that it will go well. Then, because he is an excellent regattaman, he has a lot of experience on many different supports, he hasn't fallen asleep since his victory in the 2015 Mini! He is also a great engineer, very focused on embedded systems and especially pilots. The more I can draw on his expertise, the more I get ahead of next year during which I will be a little more solo flying on my own.
The logical continuation of the Class40 is often the Imoca and the Vendée Globe, is that already a goal for you?
I am very interested in the idea of going around the world, that of doing it in race, solo and non-stop even more, so yes, I would like to. When I was doing Mini, I thought the Class40 were big boats, while the Imoca, you shouldn't even think about it; now that I'm in Class40, I think it seems playable, the scale ratio changes as you gain as you get. After that, we now have Class40s that go at crazy speed, very close to the performance of older generations of Imoca, and when we compare the ecological impact by making a Class40 or making an Imoca, there is reason to ask ourselves questions...
Precisely, you defend the colors of an environmental protection association, do you think that offshore racing does enough on these issues?
I think she asks herself the right questions, lots of voices are raised with the desire to make a difference. It's a bit of our collective responsibility, if we want our children to be able to sail later, to take a turn now to ensure that we have less impact in our practice. Afterwards, I find that there is a lot of inertia, we meet a lot, we have a lot of discussions, but in the end quite little action. It's essentially for two reasons in my opinion: the first is because we still don't know what to start to tackle the problem; today, everyone does life cycle analyses, but it takes time, we have to collect the data, analyze them... So before pretending to say that we know, we have to have the answers and it takes time. Then there are also small mentality problems, it is a still very "young" cause, which does not yet permeate all strata of the population on the same scale, so to make a difference, we must convince everyone, it is not simple.
Last edited by a moderator:
shaggybaxter
Super Anarchist
I might be biased, but that just looks hot and functional to me. There is something about the lines that just speaks solidity and survivability. Would be awesome in fresh conditions with a big swell, put that volume in the bow to work.
Last edited by a moderator:
Alberta
Member
Great photo from Anne Beauge showing the difference in rigs between a Pogo 12.50 and a Class40. @shaggybaxter the upgrade looks good, doesn’t it?
shaggybaxter
Super Anarchist
G'day Alberta,
That is a great photo, but that looks a bit stubby for a 12.50, you can 4 people inline in the cockpit with oodles of room. Looks like a Pogo 30, aluminium mast and there's no hatch just forrard of the mast.
Last edited by a moderator:
shaggybaxter
Super Anarchist
The Pogo 40 S3 mast height from DWL is something like 19m, the 12.50 was 18.5m. My aftermarket A2 was 200m2 which isn't far off a Class 40. The big difference is the mast head sails, I'd like that on the 12.50 and the the bigger main, that'd be cool.
estarzinger
Super Anarchist
- 7,940
- 1,361
- Thread starter
- #78
Well with no new Class40 builds announced for at least a week Amelie Grassi has announced the build of a VPLP designed 40 with a bakery - yes a bakery (who does have history as headline partner of the Mini Transat) as her title sponsor.
https://www.courseaularge.com/amelie-grassi-en-class40-avec-la-boulangere-bio.html?fbclid=IwAR2fmHUZkZK75RrwwQ2m2A99ld173Gr0vzXNPakGIS-PVom2K34LwO_qRko
https://www.courseaularge.com/amelie-grassi-en-class40-avec-la-boulangere-bio.html?fbclid=IwAR2fmHUZkZK75RrwwQ2m2A99ld173Gr0vzXNPakGIS-PVom2K34LwO_qRko
38°59'N
Member
Normandy Channel Race start this Sunday (the 30th). 5 scows (#158-162), 3 Mach 3s, 1 Lift among a really strong field of 24 class 40s. Especially among the scows, it promises to be another good street brawl as it has been called in the past. And, this time the plan is to have a TS5 cat follow the fleet and send back live or up-to-date media coverage.
https://normandy-race.com/en/
https://normandy-race.com/en/
