Almost Half of U.S. Families Can't Afford Basics Like Rent and Food

[austin1972]

https://fee.org/articles/the-origin-of-american-farm-subsidies/

Farming has always entailed risk.  Demanding the government remove them leads to trouble.

This makes no sense. Sure, we produce more. The market demanded it. Now, a large portion of the market has been taken away. We did our part and got the rug pulled out.

 

[BeSafe]

The US insurance market came into existence for the purpose of protecting farmers against the variability in crop yields.  As one of my farmer friends once told me, there's no greater gamblers on earth than farmers.  I remember the old B-School advice - Markets don't hate making money or losing money - they price those in.  Markets hate uncertainty.  That's the big problem with Trumps 'ad hoc' style and such things.  One of his tactics is chaos. 

When this whole trade conflict started, one of the underlying questions was 'ok.. what do you want?  what does victory look like?"   Not pie in the sky and fanciful notions - what do you WANT.  If you can't answer that question, don't go to war.

We're at least getting there a bit at a time.  After a year of fucking around, the problem is it's now becoming evident that what the US wants (including external verification) , the Chinese literally can't give them - not to the degree that's being demanded today.  Had this been the STARTING point, we'd actually be further along the process.

Agriculture is a foundational industry for every country.  If you're going to 'go there' with someone, you have to be pretty clear about what you want.  Whether it's rice in China or cheese in France or fish in Norway or corn in Iowa, these fights always suck.  Clarity and focus are vital - neither of which are Trump's strength.

I wish more Presidents would follow the Powell doctrine.  He was right.

 

[Guest]

Trump is just a symptom of how bad things have got. You can thank 5 decades of corporate lobbying. A succession of corrupt and weak governments of both left and right tweaking the laws to suit the guys who make them rich/have the nasty evidence/go to the same church/ etc.

Yep, this continually gets lost in all the noise of screaming at each other.  Screaming at each other is exactly what our corporate overlords want.  Because then we will be too distracted to notice that we are being fucked.  

 

[The Q]

it's similar in the UK, the Farming industry has one of the highest suicide rates due to the economic situation and that has nothing to do with brexit.

As for the Poor in the UK, depending on what site you look at, the poor are defined as earning less than somewhere between 55% and 60% of median income, the median being at the moment just under £30,000. That gives a definition of poor being £18,000. (single person)

For a couple the minimum to live on is £24,000 according to some web sites,

The full adult minimum we wage is £7.70 an hour, So for a 8 hour day 5 day week that's just over £16000, or £32,000 for a couple.

I earn about half way between the definition of a poor person and median. My wife can't work,

So as a single person i'm not poor, as a couple we are..

Yet we have a 27ft motor boat and a sailing boat, and we've paid off the Mortgage (I should hope so I retire in 3 years..)

But I've seen people on TV claiming they have to go to food banks, but I know they earn much more than me..

 

[ShortForBob]

$85,000 US is poor?

I'd have to challenge that..even here on the OZ dollar with rent on a three bed average house in an average suburb is around $25,000 PA leaving you $55 AU is not luxurious but hardly "poor"

And why do welfare recipients buy iphones??? ADVERTISING, UPSELLING and salespeople on commission DER.

 

[ShortForBob]

it's similar in the UK, the Farming industry has one of the highest suicide rates due to the economic situation and that has nothing to do with brexit.

As for the Poor in the UK, depending on what site you look at, the poor are defined as earning less than somewhere between 55% and 60% of median income, the median being at the moment just under £30,000. That gives a definition of poor being £18,000. (single person)

For a couple the minimum to live on is £24,000 according to some web sites,

The full adult minimum we wage is £7.70 an hour, So for a 8 hour day 5 day week that's just over £16000, or £32,000 for a couple.

I earn about half way between the definition of a poor person and median. My wife can't work,

So as a single person i'm not poor, as a couple we are..

Yet we have a 27ft motor boat and a sailing boat, and we've paid off the Mortgage (I should hope so I retire in 3 years..)

But I've seen people on TV claiming they have to go to food banks, but I know they earn much more than me..

How many children are you still supporting? and do you have a Mortgage?

my income is about half the Median, I support two kids..but I'm going to Greece for 4 weeks tomorrow..with the lids..how do I do this?? 

No Debt...non..no credit debt, no mortgage and own my home.

It's debt that keeps people poor.

It amazes me that those who've admittedly done the hard yards and are approching retirement can attempt to compare their economic situation with those still with young children and a single income (or paying child care on a double income) and a mortgage or rent to pay...If i was still renting. on my income we'd be below the poverty line.

 

[The Q]

How many children are you still supporting? and do you have a Mortgage?

my income is about half the Median, I support two kids..but I'm going to Greece for 4 weeks tomorrow..with the lids..how do I do this?? 

No Debt...non..no credit debt, no mortgage and own my home.

It's debt that keeps people poor.

Not supporting any children now ( if i was I could claim benefits) and as I noted I've paid off the Mortgage. The only debt we've ever had was the mortgage.. Well OK I once had a car on a zero percent deal, but I had saved the money anyway and had that in the bank earning a meager percentage...

If we don't have the money, we've never bought it.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

It's debt that keeps people poor.

It can be. It's also debt that makes poor people into home owners. I know because I make a buck or two making that happen. And without access to that borrowed money, they'd rent for life.

No Debt...non..no credit debt, no mortgage and own my home.

Renting for life can keep people poor too. It can also make lots of sense.

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

Interestingly, the same folks who complain about low income and lack of opportunities will shop at WalMart, select items made in third world counties (lower price) and use the self-checkout lines.  

And never employ anyone.

 

[ShortForBob]

Renting for life can keep people poor too. It can also make lots of sense.

Only when housing prices are low..here an average home costs 120X the average income.

 

[Cal20sailor]

Only when housing prices are low..here an average home costs 120X the average income.

Annual income?  I might believe monthly but we've been citing annual throughout this thread.  Please clarify.  

 

[Dog]

Here's a radical thought....Maybe it's not the government's fault that at least some of those people cant afford food and shelter. Maybe it's their own doing.

 

[Gissie]

Annual income?  I might believe monthly but we've been citing annual throughout this thread.  Please clarify.  

I think the number will be 12, not 120. Thumb problem. NZ is sitting around 9 in main cities. 

 

[Steam Flyer]

Here's a radical thought....Maybe it's not the government's fault that at least some of those people cant afford food and shelter. Maybe it's their own doing.

Well, it might depend on who they work for. If their boss has given himself a bunch of big raises over the last few years, and not given them any, then perhaps it's his fault.

-DSK

 

[Pertinacious Tom]

damn straight - it's only fuckers like you that are held back by the government, right dog?

I can make most of the professed concern for the oppression of poor people by government disappear with one post.

Specifically, this one.

 

[VhmSays]

Well, it might depend on who they work for. If their boss has given himself a bunch of big raises over the last few years, and not given them any, then perhaps it's his fault.

-DSK

Why still work for them? Unemployment is at a low, if someone treats you like shit either walk away or be content to float in the bowl.

The government is of the people by the people and also for the people. If it ain't taking care of the people then it ain't the government Americans signed up for.

 

[Saorsa]

This makes no sense. Sure, we produce more. The market demanded it. Now, a large portion of the market has been taken away. We did our part and got the rug pulled out.

Maybe folks shouldn't bitch about big Farmah (Perdue, Tyson, ADM, etc.) and GMO crops then.

The market you are concerned about is not the US market.  Subsidizing failure in farming led to guarantees that led to overproduction.  All that extra production needed a home because simply warehousing it in the US didn't do anything but sustain unreasonable levels of production until the crops were destroyed or rotted away.

I'll quote from the cite because I think the arguments were valid at the time

Even during times of economic hardship, the federal government largely stayed out of the farm business. For example, during the mid-1890s, when we had a recession and 18 percent unemployment, the secretary of agriculture, J. Sterling Morton, focused on cutting budgets, not pushing subsidies. He chopped almost 20 percent off his department’s budget, which allowed taxpayers to keep and spend more of their cash, rather than sending it to Washington. Morton fired unproductive bureaucrats, starting with a man who held the job of federal rainmaker. He slashed the travel budgets as well. 

Furthermore, when beet-sugar producers came to Washington eager for some kind of special help, Morton said, “Those who raise corn should not be taxed to encourage those who desire to raise beets. The power to tax was never vested in a Government for the purpose of building up one class at the expense of other classes.”

That philosophy, written in the Constitution by men who were themselves mainly planters and farmers, governed American farming for about 140 years. Even after World War I, when many farmers had to readjust from the high prices commanded during the war, Americans were still determined not to tax one economic group to support another.

One proposal during the 1920s, the McNary-Haugen bill, would have fixed prices of some crops by a complicated bureaucratic system and passed the costs on to American consumers. When Congress, under pressure from some farmers, passed the bill, Coolidge vetoed it.

In his veto message, Coolidge echoed major themes of limited government.“I do not believe,” Coolidge said, “that upon serious consideration the farmers of America would tolerate the precedent of a body of men chosen solely by one industry who, acting in the name of the Government, shall arrange for contracts which determine prices, secure the buying and selling of commodities, the levying of taxes on that industry, and pay losses on foreign dumping of any surplus.”

Note the first paragraph where the Secretary of Agriculture actually cut expenses to meet revenue for his department.

 

[Saorsa]

This makes no sense. Sure, we produce more. The market demanded it. Now, a large portion of the market has been taken away. We did our part and got the rug pulled out.

OBTW, maybe you should switch to Chicken or Pork.  Apparently the Chinese are having problems there.

A swine fever that’s decimating China’s hog industry is part of the problem, with meat processors around the world rushing to make up for shortages caused by the outbreak. Pork supplies are tighter across the U.S. and Europe, pushing up protein prices across the board as companies look to substitute with more chicken and beef.

 

[Steam Flyer]

Why still work for them? Unemployment is at a low, if someone treats you like shit either walk away or be content to float in the bowl.

The government is of the people by the people and also for the people. If it ain't taking care of the people then it ain't the government Americans signed up for.

Because if you're working two jobs plus a side gig, you don't have time to look for a new job. Plus new jobs are probably not paying much better. Because you can't afford to skip a paycheck.

First, you have to be able to afford to walk away.

Personally, since I am not a parent, and I was raised to be frugal, I always could afford to just up and fuckin' quit a job that sucked; and I was both motivated and lucky in finding better work.

I am not advocating that workers have no responsibility. But when you look at the pay for workers and for boardroom, matched against profitability, you very quickly see that workers do NOT have equal bargaining power in the market.

The guys who are holding the cookie jar give themselves more cookies.

-DSK

 

[Steam Flyer]

OBTW, maybe you should switch to Chicken or Pork.  Apparently the Chinese are having problems there.

A swine fever that’s decimating China’s hog industry is part of the problem, with meat processors around the world rushing to make up for shortages caused by the outbreak. Pork supplies are tighter across the U.S. and Europe, pushing up protein prices across the board as companies look to substitute with more chicken and beef.

About 6 months ago, a couple of million pigs got drowned in Hurricane Florence. That will bump pork prices up a bit.

On a side note, about half of them floated by my house.

-DSK